Ohr Sameach has many talmidim who were frum from birth and never went off.

The regent questions repeat year to year with different numbers. So the absolute best thing to do, is to get both Barron’s books, go through the old regents, and make sure you can do the problems no matter what the numbers or words are. If you keep getting tripped up on the same stuff, read those chapters a few times. Not everything in the Barrons books are in the regents, so don’t try to read them cover to cover.

@dr-pepper I’m honestly sorry to see you go, it’s been a lot of fun. I’m sorry you feel the way you do about your conversation. I cannot recall an instance in which I misquoted you. I keep bringing up the NRA not because you quoted them directly, but because a lot of your comments sounds a lot like NRA talking points. “Guns will be removed from the hands of those who obtained them legally and remain in the hands of those who obtained them illegally” (sorry if that isn’t exactly what you said) is very much an NRA talking point worded slightly differently. You have made numerous similar comments.

The statistics I quoted are publicly available and undisputed. They are compiled by Statistica, Pew Research, and Our World in Data. You can look them up yourself. If you want to contest these statistics, or counter my conclusion from them, please do so in a logical and rational fashion instead of just assuming that they are all biased without even reading them.

To summarize my position on automatic weapons, the likely hood of them being used for bad is far greater than the likelihood of being used for good. Therefore they should be banned. According to everything you’ve said so far, we seem to be in agreement with it all except the banning. Why is that?

Something new to this conversation: Do you think our views on guns and weapons come from a Torah perspective or are entirely from sociological influence? Personally, I do not own a gun. The only frum person I know who is a gun owner runs a security company. No Rebbe I respect ever talked about owning guns or its importance. We did not have a firing range in Yeshiva. So I would like to say that my views are my own based on the influence of my Torah upbringing. But I don’t know, maybe, like you said, it’s “liberal talking points” all the way through? What do you think? How about your own views?

@dr-pepper Sorry for taking so long to respond, I usually use the internet during downtime at work so weekends I’m pretty quiet online.

For the record, I did not concede to your argument. I simply gave up trying to argue whether a fantasy scenario that literally never happens fulfills my criteria of “civilian use of an automatic weapon”.

We seem to be in agreement that a huge overhaul of gun control is needed, like who can buy a gun, who can sell a gun. Similarly with mental health. Good.

It seems our main disagreement is on what guns people should be able to acquire. Even if I would agree with your arguments, that civilians need guns to protect against criminals who also have guns, I still fail to see why civilians would need anything more than a small pistol that can shoot a maximum of six bullets before reloading.

if there are X number of legal guns out there and Y number of illegal guns- how will reducing the number of X bring down the number of Y? It may stop Y from growing as fast as it’s been growing in the past but you haven’t explained how it’ll be reduced.

Stopping growth is also reduction. Guns decay and break down with age, and with illegal firearms they can’t exactly bring it to their local Walmart to get fixed. One you significantly stop the growth, it’s only a matter of time before the number in the hands of criminals goes down too.

Here’s a statistic for you: The total number of prisoners in the UK makes up 0.088% of the population. The average sentence for violence is 18.5 years. By contrast, 0.7% of the US population is in prison, and the average sentence for violence is 25 years. In the UK, there are about 40 violent crimes per 100,000 people compared to 300 in the US. So it clearly isn’t prison keeping violent crimes at a high.

I would love to quote you NRA funded studies, problem is that very few of their studies are relevant. They are all about how better armor leads to less death and nothing about how less guns lead to less death. In fact, just the opposite. The NRA has spent a ridiculous amount of time and energy both supressing gun control studies and making sure that studying gun control is illegal. I work in healthcare data. Until Trump changed the Dickey Amendment, we were not allowed to use healtcare data to research anything regarding gun violence. Because the NRA was clearly too scared to allow people to see how dangerous guns are. So to heck with your NRA studies. I’m looking at actual data and drawing my conclusions from that. If that’s too biased for you, then I guess reality has a bias.

I’ve pointed out several of your sentences and paragraphs that bear a striking similarity to NRA talking points. I’m not going to repeat myself on that, just re-read my old comments.

@dr-pepper If there is a common use case for automatic weapons, then what is it? Because you have failed to mention a single instance in recent history where a civilian used an automatic weapon for good where a regular small pistol wouldn’t have sufficed. However, there are loads of cases where automatic weapons were used to murder. The only possible conclusion from all of this is that automatic weapons in civilian hands are a net bad thing.

You say you want automatic owners to prove responsibility, background checks, regular checkups, etc. Great. I would like to add a few criteria to that: They need to prove that they need a gun each time they buy one and there needs to be at least a one week waiting period for any firearms purchase. If we can have those laws, we will be a long way to being a lot safer.

“THE PROBLEM IS THAT THE GUNS WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE HANDS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE THAT HAD THEM LEGALLY AND THE REMAINING GUNS WILL BE THE ONES OBTAINED ILLEGALLY.”

This previous statement of yours is a distillation of several NRA quotes and ideologies.

You don’t care about studies or statistics? Then I guess we can just end this right now. So all you’re saying is that you’re opinion is the only right one and there’s literally nothing in the world that can dissuade you from that. I question your methodology also. I mean, AOC never actually cited any study that smash and grab robbers are “just hungry”. She was merely stating a fact without anything backing it up (in English we call that “lying”).

So what we’re left at is this:

You say that people deserve and need weapons to protect themselves against other people who have weapons. That there’s sadly nothing to be done to prevent criminals from getting weapons, so the only proper response is to arm the population.

I counter with this. The more guns there are, the easier it is for criminals to get their hands on them. Most criminals will still commit crime with or without a gun. If we make it harder for them to get guns, only the really committed ones will have them. This will lead to less innocent people being shot and killed.

Now I can cite you numerous studies, research, statistics, articles, laws, and comparisons but that’s all pointless because no matter what I say you will dismiss it with the all powerful wave of your hand “Well I don’t believe in that”. Problem is, facts don’t care about your beliefs or feelings.

Gun control. It’s the only way.

I’m not a die hard Trumpist, but at this point I’m convinced the only purpose of the hearings is to detract from Biden’s failures and the horrific economy. What, exactly, are they hoping to accomplish? All the evidence has been viewed and reviewed a thousands times over. Yes, people attacked the Capitol with intent to overturn the election. Yes, Trump rallied with them and may have said some things that provoked them. But is it enough to put the guilt on Trump? No, we’ve already established that. So what is this all about already?

@n0mesorah I suppose that individual who wrote a glowing article in a mainstream frum paper on LT about 8 years ago, including rationalizing child marriages and taking children from their parents, would count.

The pro-COVID crowd has a difficult time separating things health officials have said two years ago with more up to date things they are saying today. That’s probably why they claim that the communication about masks is “confusing” as they think that something said by Fauci in February of 2020 is still nogeya despite him having explicitly retracted in multiple times.

The valve mask thing was said in mid-2020. I believe it was retracted later that year. So if you’re wearing an N95 or KN95 mask, it’s fine if there’s a valve on it. However, valved masks are more expensive to manufacture so you don’t see them often (or at all).

I read the column too and I was almost laughing out loud the whole time about how an avowed anti-frum leftist has somehow come to the same conclusions that the frum oilon had been saying since the 1920s.

@always_ask_questions

You’re making a logical error which I’ve heard called the “People Live in Cities Fallacy”. The biggest cities have the biggest number of crimes because there are more people there. So yes, more people are murdered by guns in New York City than in Yehupitzville, Iowa. But the rate of gun crimes (per 1000 individuals) is actually highest in places with lax gun laws, like New Orleans and Jackson, Mississippi.

I think the problem with gun laws is that almost anytime Congress tries to impose better restrictions, like wait periods, better background checks, gun show loophole closures, better registration, etc. the NRA and all of its unwitting goons jump all over it “The Democrats are taking our freedoms!”.

Only the Teimanim held of polygamy in recent history. And even among them, it wasn’t too common. So yes, “exceedingly rare” in the sense that it was something practiced by a minority of one single Jewish ethnicity.

@dr-pepper I’m basing my opinions on actual statistics. Like how the USA is most comparable to Somalia in terms of gun deaths per person. You can’t just say “Well you can’t compare…” when literally every developed country not at war does so much better than the US in terms of violence. If you say it’s because of the easiness of the US prison system, then you have to bring some really really good stats and professional opinions to back that up. Like how does that explain Scandanavian countries whose prisons are basically hotels and barely have any gun violence? Because the US is so atrociously bad at not letting people die from bullets, that can’t be all. The simplest reason is probably because there are too many guns.

The fact that you cannot even think of a single situation that actually happened where a person was saved because they were holding an automatic weapon means that such situations are too rare to warrant allowing everyone to carry automatics. That’s an opinion, sure. But one that I cannot think of a logical reason to disagree with.

Different cities and states having different gun control laws is pointless when a quick jaunt over the border will allow someone better access. Or send a shaliach. Or a gun show. Facts remain that most mass murders in the US happened with guns that were acquired legally.

Im Yirtzah Hashem, just like average people figured out that cigarettes are bad for you and smoking dropped dramatically, so to should guns and gun ownership.

@dr-pepper Let’s simplify things: The advantages of banning all automatic weapons far outweighs the disadvantages.

To get to your points specifically: Are there situations where a civilian wielding an automatic weapon is useful? Yes. But those situations are extremely rare. The single example you gave is something that literally never happened (Rittenhouse could have used a .22 pistol. Or just no gun to begin with, the reason he was attacked was because he was visibly armed). It’s rare enough to quantify: the number of lives legal automatic weapons save in a decade is probably less than 10. On the other hand, fully legal weapons are used all the time in murders, possibly dozens of deaths annually.

Basically, what I’m saying is that there’s no good reason to have so many big guns.

You say you don’t know much about the NRA, yet you repeat their talking points near-verbatim. I guess that just shows that how much of the pro-gun “culture” is controlled by them and the weapons lobby.

So banning all big guns is by far the best way to go about things.

In 20 years, cigarette smoking went from being the cool thing that every teen and adult does, to something frowned upon and heavily regulated. In 20 years marijuana went from being synonymous with heroin to something you can find at a corner drug store. Maybe in 20 years from now, automatic weapons will be seen as illegal and become rare and difficult to acquire. And maybe in 20 years from then so will semi-automatics. Perhaps another 20 years later we can even rethink the 2nd amendment.

Which means that the disadvantages of banning big guns is that some people won’t feel safe but a whole lot of other people will feel much safer and that’s something I can live with and so should you.

And I can compare the US to other civilized countries. Rates of violence in the US are comparable to Somalia. And gun deaths (excluding suicides) top the list of violent crime-related deaths. No other civilized country even comes close.

The availability of guns makes people who would otherwise not commit gun violence, be more prone to committing gun violence. It’s simple logic. The more guns there are, the easier they are to acquire. How much armed robbery or mass shootings are there in places with strict gun control laws? Furthermore, someone willing to commit mass murder without a gun will have to carefully plan things out, like the Boston Bombers. But if they have a gun, there’s barely any planning at all required, just head to a crowded area and open fire. Which is probably why out of all the mass murders in the last 20 years, only one or two were committed without guns. The rest? You got it! High capacity high caliber high rate firearms!

What I’m trying to say is that I have yet to hear a convincing argument why the USA needs so many guns.

On the subject of mental illness. You seem to vastly underestimate the sheer amount of invasive power it would take to find dangerously mentally ill people before they commit crimes. The systems you describe are already in place. Just try opening up a Facebook or YouTube page with pictures of guns and hints that you plan on using them. You’ll have police at your door within the day. But that doesn’t cover everyone. Most mass shooters didn’t really have any major red flags. It’s basically impossible to get everyone the help they need, and to force someone to get help will only work if you’re absolutely certain that said individual is violent. You know what’s not impossible? Banning big guns so that mentally ill people are much more limited in potential for violence.

In conclusion: No guns. OK, maybe some guns. But only small ones.

@dr-pepper What you’re saying is that there are some very specific and rare scenarios where an automatic weapon in civilian hands is useful. I disagree. The fact that those scenarios are so specific and rare means that automatic weapons should not be in civilian hands because their only use is in specific and rare scenarios that 99.99% of people never experience. Hence my charging pack of rhinos.

I’m not delusional to think that guns will disappear overnight, but I do believe we have to make a very strong effort to start that process. Perhaps if the effort is strong enough, in another 10-20 years mass murderers won’t find their weapons of choice so easily. So yes. Let’s ban all guns.

Let’s say they do go ahead with the ban and forcibly confiscate all guns from registered owners- do you think the country would be safer or more dangerous

Safer. Much safer. You keep just paraphrasing the NRA line, “If we criminalize guns, only criminals will have guns”. Except that’s not true as evidenced by literally every developed country in the world. The thing is, if guns aren’t criminalized, they become really easy to come by. So if a criminal wants an illegal gun in the USA they have about a thousand different options. Furthermore, if someone without a criminal record wants to commit a crime, they are much more likely to buy a gun if they can just walk into the local Murder-Sticks-R-Us and pick one out.

If someone wants to commit mass murder without a gun, they have very limited options. As evidenced by the fact that gunless mass murderers aren’t common and kill far less people than those with guns.

If these people are adequately looked into and put away where they can’t harm others I think the mass killings would drop significantly.

Do you think that mentally ill people will just disappear overnight? It’s really really hard to find the needle in the haystack that is the fellow that’s about to go over the deep end. It’s far easier to simply deny them access to the tools of others destruction.

@dr-pepper More realistic scenario: Let’s say you had an automatic weapon with dozens of rounds and you were being chased by a furious mob of rioters wielding automatic weapons with dozens of rounds and screaming for your death?

Would you even have a chance?

No more guns. Period.

@ray-kaufman That’s nice I don’t care.

Big guns should be illegal. Period. There is literally no valid use to your average person for a weapon that can shoot more than six .22 bullets without reloading. I’m not the greatest fan of small guns either and I look forward to a day where security guards can carry nothing more than tasers because the fear of a bad guy with a gun is so extremely unlikely.

@moishekapoieh Koichi v’oitzem yodi usuh es ha’chayil ha’zeh?

The flag parade is a meaningless celebration that does nothing other than to antagonize a nation who barely needs an excuse to murder Jews.

@tunaisafish Less than 10 people died by George Floyd, including Floyd himself over six months of rioting. This was 20 people in an hour.

The shooting event should be blamed on politicians that have been having their strings pulled by the anti-Semitic NRA since forever.

@tunaisafish The Maiseh b’Poel is to get stop guns from being so readily available to every criminal and nutjob. That is a political matter so the zach is political from the get go. Unfortunately, there are people screaming and crying about their “rights” to own dangerous weapons that serve no purpose outside of a warzone and unfortunately many people in power in the US listen to them.

Just today I was reading an article on a popular conservative blog about red flag laws. A red flag law is a proposal to allow people to snitch on weapon owners who could be problematic which would allow the police to confiscate their firearms. The blog stated it “would do more harm than good” because it would allow people the power to get their neighbors guns taken away. Let’s absorb that for a second. The good: Less people dying from guns, less mass shootings, less murders. The harm: Some innocent people will loose their firearms.

@SyagLchochma “That is as ignorant as saying car dealers support drunk driving.” If getting a gun was a difficult as getting a car, this would be a apt comparison. As it stands, carrying a gun while drunk isn’t illegal, shooting a gun while under 16 isn’t illegal, shooting a gun without insurance isn’t illegal, you can buy a gun within five minutes of turning 18, you can use a gun for years without it getting checked on etc etc etc. Getting a gun either legally or illegally in the US is terrifyingly simple. No mental health checks are going to stop the black market. The US has to make guns rare and difficult to get and hold on to.

Furthermore, cars serve a very important purpose in most people’s lives. I fail to see what purpose an AR-15 serves in the life of anyone not trying to kill as many people in as little time as possible. You want personal protection? Get a .22 pistol that can fire six bullets before reloading. You want to hunt because you’re a shikkur goy? Get a bolt-action deer rifle.

What if we rephrase this entire conversation to be talking about the Ubbar when it is less than 40 days old? What shteit in halacha? What about US law?

Speak to a therapist and find the best way to get them into therapy. OCD can seriously ruin a persons life and they may be in denial that they have a problem. Therapy is absolutely necessary.

I wonder why anyone thought that Republicans would ever vote for an accented Turkish immigrant with a Muslim name.

Struckes!

This reminds me of the famous story about the Bais Yaakov convention in Toronto. There was an announcement that all in-town girls should stand up and go to a certain person, so all the Toronto and Flatbush girls got up.

Do you take Zelle?