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To yytz:
The story is with R’ Moshe Feinstein. It was with a boxer who suffered from CTE, a form of dementia due to multiple head injuries. It took him a year to finish 1 blatt, R’ Moshe paskened to make a siyum on it and he attended it.
The next day this person passed away. At the levaya R’ Moshe was maspid him יש קונה עולמו בדף אחד.1. Ok, so what? They are extremely obsessed with it, so naturally it will be on their minds more.
2. Rav Shach criticized their belief in the rebbe being Moshiach as not having proper belief in the coming of moshiach. Belief in Moshiach is supposed to be part of Emuna in Hashem and how he runs the world and makes things happen. A group deciding, based on some shaky evidence that their leader must be Moshiach to the exclusion of everyone else is not real belief in Moshiach, rather it’s a belief in the superiority of their group.Ray Kaufman –
Other than nitpicking on electrons flowing or just energy, can you state a specific example that the poskim got facts wrong which would possibly change the psak.
Does the tech just stare at a screen all shabbos? Is he not switching power from different areas of the plant?1. No, we should not hand over the country to the Arabs. That doesn’t justify the creation of the State nor does it mean that we should condone anti religious actions and Chilulei Hashem
2. The way Hashem runs the world is very mysterious and can’t be understood fully. There are times that רשעים are successful, Dovid Hemelech already had this question. Why were the Germans successful in the beginning of WW2? Why did the Romans win wars? We don’t know the answer.
3. The solution is to try to get as many secular to become closer to religion and to get more halacha into the State policyRational –
There are plenty of A- and B bochurim who don’t expect money, maybe a bit of financial support for 5 years.
Plenty of poor girls are getting married. As long as they have their head on straight and don’t expect more than they can get. I’m not saying that it’s easy for them, and obviously the rich have it easier, but it’s not like the non moneyed are up against a wallFamilygirl – I happen to agree with you, I don’t think that eliminating the 2 years in EY will lower the overall level of learning. If anything, it would be beneficial. Some do gain from their years in EY (I was 1 of them) but most either don’t gain anything or see a yerida in their ruchnius. And sending 1000s of 20 somethings away with practically 0 hashgacha is not a recipe for success.
What bothers me is that this is not being talked about as an option for eliminating the age gap. Rather, what the “marry at 21” crowd is saying is that bochurim should go to EY at 19-20 so that they come back at 21, effectively depriving them of their formative years of learning in post high school B”M, but C”V not to eliminate the learning in EY.
Another point to address this age gap thing. We’re talking about at most 5% of girls who will be left out R”L. However, we need to take into account the higher divorce rate which will inevitably happen if we lower the marriage age across the board. Yes, many are ready for marriage at 21 but many are not. Why is it better to have divorced girls than to have single girls?Leiby – Groiser Talmid Chuchem, which sources are you referring to?
Philosopher – Again, I’m not talking about great sages. I’m talking about a system designed for average bochurim, who, if they take it seriously will develop a mahalech in learning which they will take with them their whole life.
I did address the Israeli system. I compared the American system where for the most part the yungerman has a ticking clock from when he gets married until he needs to go to work. The Israeli yungerman, however has no clock he’s in kollel for life. BTW I heard from Americans who learned in Ponevezh and Chevron that Israelis are better than Americans in bekius, but Americans are much better lamdonim.Philosopher – I was referring to the litfishe system as apposed to the chasidishe system. Of course you will have serious guys and hutzkeners on both sides, the point is what the system is designed to do for those who take it seriously.
Learning after kollel does not address the issue, as whatever the amount of time he will stay in kollel, whether it’s 5 or 10 years, once he gets married his clock is ticking. The later he gets married, especially if he stays in B”M shiur long enough to get a mahalech in learning, he’ll stay in learning longer.
In EY they’re basically in kollel for life so this isn’t that much of an issue, hence the 21 age of getting married.
Referring to the kesuba, if the wife is mochel on any chiuv the husband has then he isn’t obligated anymore. Practically any case of the husband learning is only possible if the wife wants him to, so any talk of kesuba isn’t relevantLeiby – Rashi on קידושין כט says no such thing, in fact he says that בני בבל should marry first and then learn so that they won’t have הרהורים, however בני א”י who will be distracted by family obligations should learn first and then marry (EVEN THOUGH they will have הרהורים). You are actually referring to the רמב”ם brought by the ב”ש in שו”ע who says that מי שיצרו תוקפו should marry first. This is can be interpreted as an extreme case of הרהורים, hardly a פירכא on the litfishe Yeshiva system.
Before you call someone an am haaretz you should check your sources.Philosopher – The reason why litfishe bochurim marry at 24 while chasidishe marry younger is because in the litfishe Yeshiva system (which is geared to teach bochurim how to learn, not just robotic blatt memorization) is about 3 years post bais medrash post high school and then 1-2 years in EY and BMG freezer, which brings them to 23-24.
Joseph – see Kiddushin 29b הא לן והא להו. In short, if your learning won’t be disrupted by being married you should marry at 18, but if you are like most people who have obligations to their family which will take you away from learning then בן י”ח לחופה doesn’t apply to you