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Winnie, do you look at it as a chasoren that someone living in Israel would not want to integrate into Israeli society?
At the end of the day, every Yeshiva knows and needs to know that a CODB of operating a Yeshiva is eating the cost of having students with an inability to cover their own costs.
How the Yeshiva covers that cost is ultimately a matter for the Yeshiva to figure out. Kicking out Jewish children from Yeshiva for financial considerations is not an option.
RY23, you’re correct in your last comment. But it completely fails to address the raised point about kicking Yiddishe kinderlach out of Yeshiva because their parents can neither afford to pay tuition nor find any donors or charity to cover it.
Hey, it’s a brand new era in the Coffee Room. ZD is starting to agree with me!
Winning converts one by one. 😁
funnybone, RY: Section 8, rent-control/subsidized housing, Food Stamps, HEAP, clothing gemachs and Tomchei Shabbos/food pantries are a dime a dozen.
Tuition paying gemachs, barely exist — and good luck trying to find any.
Also, food, electric and clothing can be had on a tightly controlled usage/budget at probably a much lower cost than full non-subsidized (which is what’s being advocated) tuition for seven children.
With another expense they might go without the meat or without the bicycle or without the car.
Here there’s is no, and should be no, option of going without Yeshiva.
It is real.
And what if the parents cannot find donors to make up the deficit in tuition?
TLIK: You sound more accepting of a Yeshiva throwing out children who cannot pay than your acceptance level of a Yeshiva throwing out kids who are a negative influence on other Yeshiva kids.
Just saying.
Ghosts don’t go to school.
Why one two? Perhaps you should insist all dates go for at least three or four dates.
Mistykins: Your point, to put it in a nutshell, is that an average Jewish MO guy is better than a Jewish Mayer Lansky or Bugsy Siegel wearing a white shirt and tie.
I agree.
But that doesn’t change my original point that an average Jewish fellow (i.e. follows the Torah and is not a criminal) dressed in blatantly Jewish clothing that’ll identify him as JEWISH to anyone with even a little eyesight is better than an average Jewish guy dressed in a colored shirt and jeans, no different than numerous goyim.
“No current Beis Din is forcing all the single 30-40-50 year old men to get married, so the Halacha L’maaseh is not as you make it out to be. My opinion on the matter is moot.”
Winnie, no Beis Din is forcing people to eat kosher, put on Tefilin or give a Gett when halachicly mandated either. That’s because unfortunately Beis Din doesn’t have power today. A few hundred years ago in Europe and in the Levant our butei dinim DID enforce Halacha, as they should. The Halacha L’Maaisa certainly IS how I make it out to be, even if we don’t have the ability to enforce it.
That said, most frum Yidden WANT to keep Halacha. That’s why they eat kosher, wear Tefilin and give a Gett when required even if Beis Din won’t force them to. Unfortunately many people don’t always know what they’re halachicly obligated to do. Beis Din telling them will clarify it for them.
So too if the Halacha is that they MUST get married, and Beis Din so orders them, they WILL get married knowing they are halachicly required to as ordered by Beis Din, even if they don’t want to.
GAON:
1. I already answered your very poor point about the husband attempting to divorce his new wife.
2. You are arguing against the Halacha according to the collective wisdom of Chazal, the Rishonim and the Mechaber.
3. See my most recent comment to Winnie about the Beis Din.
4. Your comments are very simplistic and have neither the complexity not depth required to make major Klal decisions. You also have a tendency to put words in other people’s mouths.
Ding-aling-aling-aling!! Captain172 beautifully explained why Yidden need to wear a Yiddishe uniform.
Thank you!
Winnie, how is it that you give a detailed response to a non-serious extra-halachic suggestions of Mr. Rebbetzin yet leave unaddressed my serious and very much halachic suggestion?
Welcome Back squeak!!
Nosson — it worked.
“4. Administrators should charge their tuitions and someone who cant pay should go to a community based tuition organization. As communities we cannot impose the communal charity responsibility on the yeshivas.”
Rafe: And what if the parent who cannot afford cannot find a “community based tuition organization” to partially fund their children’s tuition?
No you cannot send your kids to public school, RY23. That’s akin to murdering them. Every Jewish child has the absolute right and obligation to go to Yeshiva, even if the parents cannot afford a dime on tuition.
Neville:
If Yeshivos operated under a true free-market capitalist system, what is your solution for the Jewish children who cannot obtain a slot in any Yeshiva under this true free-market capitalist system?
Chuck them into free pubic school?
“It is possible to work with parents whose income is adequate but irregular.”
And what of parents whose income is simply inadequate? They ought to be chucked out?
Mazal Tov ubiq on the purchase of your first house!
“The other reality is to scale back the scope of spending by the Mosdos to match their combined tuition/donation income. That may be a painful choice for some, but its reality.”
What exactly do you think can be cut? Yeshivos are on shoestring budgets as it is.
“Vouchers is probably the only viable one but even that has serious flaws (Like the government having the right to dictate what is taught)”
ZD: The government claims the right to dictate what is taught even if the school doesn’t take a penny in government funding.
RY: These communists shouldn’t get to spend our money on public schools either.
“Abrham Lincoln
George Washington”ZD: I agree with you that Washington was greater but between Lincoln and Trump it is a tougher call. I put him at two but can see your point by putting Trump as the third greatest.
“But there is a second side to the coin – the parents !!!
If parents would only… (2) pay it on time – the schools too would be able to pay their staff on time.
The schools realize that “1” above is not reality as many parents cannot afford to pay full tuition – but there is not excuse for “2” above. If the school cannot even rely on the contracted amount that has to be paid monthly – how can they cover their expenses and payroll.”“P.S. I always met my commitments for tuition bills even when my wife lost her job. Other parents can do it.”
Azoiy, SCommonS: Some other parents simply cannot pay no matter how much you squeeze them. The money simply does not exist by them. Even the amount in the tuition agreement doesn’t exist.
“about the theoretical authority of a beis din, but in the real world, we don’t force a marriage on unwilling partners.”
It’s Mr. Hadorah versus Halacha.
We follow Halacha.
“A month later they divorce… unfortunate for Shaindel.”
GAON: Beis Din is fully authorized to prevent a husband from divorcing his wife. Especially in such circumstances as we are discussing.
Admittedly, George Washington was greater.
But The Donald indeed is American history’s second best.
RY23, think shidduch crisis. i.e. numerous girls unable to marry due to shortage of guys. Just like we have now. Now think of selfish boys who don’t want to marry. Then think of desperate girls who do want to marry. Now think Halacha. Then think Beis Din.
Viola; you’ve got a shidduch!
Hey, Hashem made this Halacha for a reason. And it wasn’t just theoretical.
RY23, the way the Halacha works is if, say, Chaim decides marriage is not for him, Beis Din then goes and finds a girl who is willing to marry him. So they speak to Shaindel and she tells them that she’s game to marring Chaim. Beis Din goes back to Chaim and say, “Reb Chaim next month you’ll be marrying Shaindel. Be ready cause you have no choice.”
A month later they marry the lucky couple.
His gilgul is still here.
RY23, I admit it. The context is that the person refuses to get married.
Sorry for omitting that point.
ZG: Are you thinking of he who is without sin shall cast the first stone?
It was said by Chees Us.
(Sorry, couldn’t resist 😉
Hadorah has torn out that Halacha from the Shulchan Aruch.
” I saw on PBS TV a black and white film from Russia, filmed in the 1920s, that showed Tsar Nicholas wearing a shraimel and kappatah!”
Kid, you clearly have no idea what a shtraimel and kappatah look like, if you think the shmattas Nicholas was wearing was that.
Beis Din has the right to force people to get married. This is a bfeirush Halacha.
There’s something very very wrong with making a choice to not get married, under general circumstances.
Our political so-called leaders (not) cannot do anything more than you and I can do.
That is daven.
ZD: No need for MO style fancy school buildings and expenses. You can do well on a shoestring budget.
amosak: How else should I or anyone else point out a falsehood, other than calling it a falsehood? It would lack derech eretz to allow a falsehood to remain unchallenged.
How do they get phone numbers of frum people?
Open new yeshivos and bais yaakovs.
amosak: That is factually a falsehood. Your story has no truth to it.
“Im talking about shuls being targeted, windows being shattered, and swastikas along with anti Jewish slogans appearing all over the city and in public parks. There have been many cases over the past year.”
*Most* of these incidents have occurred in the Crown Heights area perpetrated by the demographic I mentioned.
That’s because as a matter of quantity most antisemitism comes from the left/liberal/”progressive”/university types.
Children benefit from a smaller class size. So the Yeshiva is better to take less children so the class size is smaller.
Writer: The surge in antisemitism in NYC is happening mostly in Crown Heights and is being perpetrated by African-American criminal antisemites. Exactly the opposite of anything to do with Trump.
We need to stop infantalizing our teenagers.
How can anyone have an opinion on a curriculum that hasn’t come out yet.