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Syag — I appreciate your concern for my welfare more than I’m capable of expressing in written format. Please accept this belated note in sincere gratitude. Having (had) antibodies I believe, in retrospect, I B”H had a rather very mild case of the virus that kept me in bed most of one day about 12 months ago. After getting back to work the following day I mostly forgot about it given the upended course of events the pandemic triggered generally. You are correct that I’m an avid follower of my friend Dr. Pepper. And I especially have followed this favorite thread of mine, so I was quite surprised myself that I only saw these posts here so tardily.
Dr. Pepper — I’m glad your brother-in-law appreciates the humor. Please send him my regards and make sure he’s in on my part of the story. As you should be making your annual visit to the CR in a mere few days this Chol Hamoed, I’ll be sure to send you an email beforehand to insure you are confident of the veracity of my identity as being the one and the same (or you might say as the one and the only) Joseph of yore who has faithfully communicated with you both on this forum as well as off of it. Please confirm here receipt of said upcoming electronic mail message (which will be our first such correspondence since Sept. 1, 2015), with assurance that it’s no April Fools gag, to insure our fellow readership is on the same wavelength as us.
Ah gutten Yom Tov (and an early gutten moed, for the anticipated time of your reading.)
squeak, what does your therapist have to say about it?
Sure the gym owner has the right to refuse you entry. But if the gym owner wishes to permit you entry, is it the right of the government to deny entry where both parties (owner and patron) agree on permitting it?
SDD, I saw your thread up for a few days on the main page (with no replies to the OP), though I never opened it. Now I wonder what controversy I missed there.
There’s an article in today’s (Wednesday July1) New York Times entitled “Here’s What Recovery From Covid-19 Looks Like for Many Survivors” that may be of interest. Google it. It discusses exactly what you’re describing.
The subtitle is “Continuing shortness of breath, muscle weakness, flashbacks, mental fogginess and other symptoms may plague patients for a long time.”
WB, DY.
That may be one of a number of relevant provisions of the law, CTR. There are other relevant exemptions as well.
If a Yeshiva is part of a chasidus the provision you mentioned would kick in. If the Yeshiva has a synagogue (shul) that provision also becomes relevant. In fact, the mere fact that a Yeshiva is a religious institution itself likely makes it relevant.
A Yeshiva is a religious institution and isn’t required to file a 990. There’s no reason for them to go above what the law requires.
Catholic parochial schools don’t file 990s, either.
If someone can offer here a valid cogent description of “liberal chareidi”, your will have answered the question at hand over here. And then apply that description to this site and see how will it fits.
Is this more common by the lady than by the gentleman?
I added a tangential point to the OP.
Since when does anyone get all broigas about a comment not directly answering an OP?
We are NOT supposed to let know the poor recipient of charity who gave him the tzedaka; the giver is not supposed to know who the recipient is; AND the public is NOT supposed to know which poor people were given tzedaka.
N0m: You’re going in circles. You’re misapplying “Ain dochen nefesh mipnei nefesh.” A) You’re using it to claim that the Halacha (and it is undisputed that it is Halacha as I cited above from numerous Halachic sources) in Horayos doesn’t apply. How can you claim to erase Horayos? How can you disregard the Halacha from Horayos?
And B) Ain dochen nefesh mipnei nefesh isn’t applicable since the crew, by mathematical fact, MUST choose who are the few that can be saved, since there isn’t enough to save all. Each individual passenger has no claim to a seat in the still unoccupied lifeboats. The crew has the right to decide who can enter. (Otherwise they’ll be chaos and everyone will sink.) Just as an Emergency Room with insufficient space must choose who to admit. You can’t just walk into the hospital and jump into an unused hospital bed and yell Ain dochen nefesh mipnei nefesh.
That’s why Horayos comes in and determines the triage order.
CA: I very much hope you followed through on my March advice to dump your stock in Hertz.
opinionated-2: Are you open to marry a guy who, just like yourself now, currently has filtered internet but plans to get rid of it after he marries you?
Huju: Coffee Addict is referring to a religious-right site equivalent to how this site is progressive/left on Jewish issues even though it is right leaning on secular political issues.
N0m: On the Titanic there simply were no other available rafts or inflatable anything to utilize in the high seas. And there were no neatly formed lines waiting to enter lifeboats. Passengers simply amassed on the deck where the lifeboats were being launched. The crew also believed they had sufficient time to organize a triage of who would disembark first unto the lifeboats.
Asking to form a line, itself, is a form of triage. But that isn’t the method of triage Halacha gives. Asking to form a line of men on the right and of women on the left could be requested just as easily as asking for a single line. All the Halachic sources say to triage — and tell us how to triage. There’s no reason to be reluctant to triage when there isn’t resources for all. You can’t have a free for all where everyone tries to jump into the lifeboat simultaneously before space runs out and then fight afterwards which 30 people were the last in putting it 30 over capacity.
How will YWN put you in touch with someone?
intown: Do you think grey/blue pants would work in the Beis Medrash of BMG, Mir, Beis HaTalmud, Torah Vodass, Torah Temimah, etc.?
N0m: If a ship is sinking and there aren’t sufficient lifeboats, the crew MUST regulate who gets on the lifeboats and who does not. Otherwise everyone (i.e. too many people than the lifeboat can handle, causing it to sink) will jump in.
In fact, on the Titanic itself that’s exactly what happened. Some men jumped into the lifeboats even though the crew said women and children only. The crew had to, more than once, pull out their revolver and (in some cases) shoot into the air to order those guys out so they could give the slot to a woman.
(Obviously had it been a Jewish controlled boat, they’d have regulated it for the men to board first.)
CS: That’s very silly. Africans were enslaved in Africa by their fellow Africans. Europeans came to Africa and purchased these already enslaved Africans from other Africans. So their suffering began in Africa itself.
Do you imagine that had they stayed slaves in Africa rather than being purchased by Europeans they’d have done better in Africa? Of course not. The African-Americans are doing far far better than the former African slaves who never left Africa, by any account.
America helped the African-Americans in the long run. Virtually none of them want to return to Africa. There was once a movement to return them to Africa. They’re doing much better in the United States.
America has helped EVERY demographic group that came to the United States do much better economically, socially, politically, mentally and in any measure of happiness than they experienced in their homeland pre-America. Whether we’re discussing the Irish, Italians, Polish, Africans, Carribeans, Chinese, other Asians or Latin and South Americans.
intown: No one will notice the difference between a Charles Tyrwhitt shirt or a $10/$15 white shirt. Same with the shoes.
It’s very simple: white shirt, black pants, black socks, black shoes, black jacket, black hat.
That’s it. No brands are necessary.
Just make sure your hair is short.
Same, btw, with the Russian Jews who came to America in the late 1800s/early 1900s. They, too, came to America with no family sponsors and penniless after fleeing from Czarist Russia with nothing other than the clothes on their back. And they too within a few short years were prospering rather than constantly demanding America give them handouts.
And they do not have a large criminal element, they do not riot, they do not loot and they do not burn down buildings when America doesn’t give them what they demand or when a criminal is apprehend by the police.
Same, btw, with the Russian Jews who came to America in the late 1800s/early 1900s. They, too, came to America with no family sponsors and penniless after fleeing from Czarist Russia with nothing other than the clothes on their back. And they too within a few short years were prospering rather than constantly demanding America give them handouts.
And they do not have a large criminal element, they do not riot, they do not loot and they do not burn down buildings when America doesn’t give them what they demand or when a criminal is apprehend by the police.
SB: Are you kidding? The German reparations were a pittance. Nothing to write home about. The post-WWII European Jews came to America with no family sponsors, penniless and without family. They had just undergone far far worse tribulations than the blacks. Within a few short years they were back and prospering rather than constantly demanding America give them ever fatter handouts.
American Holocaust survivors came to this country penniless following an attempted genocidal extermination across the European continent, which had been their ancestoral home for a thousand years. And they just lost a majority of their parents, siblings and family to that Nazi genocide murdering six million of their brethren, a third of the population. Yet, nevertheless, within a few decades they successfully rebuilt better than before economically, spiritually, familiarly and emotionally.
Don’t tell anyone that historic discrimination against blacks from over a century ago is responsible for their poor economic status, high rate of criminality, broken families with no fathers, teen and unmarried pregnancies and all their other self-inflicted wounds.
Jews were beaten down much much worse and came back much much better, far far quicker.
Why are you making assumptions? Your scenario is also lacking granular details. The Titanic scenario was a simpler discussion to make the overall point, as many people were standing shoulder to shoulder waiting to disembark. My position is to follow Horayos. Just as Chazal paskened. And as affirmed by all the above Rishonim and Achronim.
The Chazon Ish (Bava Metziah 62a as well as in Yoreh Deah) also paskens we follow the order in Horayos. Rav Vozner in Shevet HaLeivi siman 342 says the same, as well.
N0m: The Titanic crew, in fact, at the the of the emergency knowing they were short of space on the lifeboats, believed they had time and DID triage. It turned out they released their last lifeboat just prior to sinking.
In any event, regardless of what occurred in that situation, consider a similar future situation where there is time to triage but not enough facilities.
Which article are you referring to? I provided above numerous sources, all independently reaching the same conclusion I’ve described.
In his teshuva in the Igros Moshe, Rav Moshe also writes that in a contemporary case where it becomes necessary to follow the triage order given in Horayos in a situation where only one can be saved, or where you must choose who to save first, if two people come in with the same precedence under the order given in the Mishna in Horayos, the doctor should make a lottery to choose which patient to take.
While the Titanic was a clear-cut textbook example of when this Halacha applies it is just one example of many contemporary possible scenarios. Another recent example is if what happened in Italy and Spain two or three months ago during the coronovirus, where they ran out of hospital beds and the hospitals were therefore rejecting sick patients who required hospitalization were to c’v occur in a Jewish controlled environment, we would be required to follow the triage order outlined in Horayos, as per Rav Moshe is the Igros Moshe based on the Mishna, Rambam, Rama, Rashba, Ya’avetz, etc.
SB: That’s false. We did not defend a guy in FL who murdered a cop. We tried to reduce the punishment from capital punishment to life imprisonment. We did not at all defend him at trial or in public for any aspect prior to the punishment question, despite the fact that he wasn’t even the trigger-man, but was a thief who was associated with the actual killer. And even that much was based on hearsay by a convict trying to save himself by blaming him; the facts of that case were never clear.
Additionally, ALL 7 mitzvos bnei noach carry capital punishment. Even the “minor” ones i.e. eating a live animal such as crab, shrimp; stealing $5, etc.
n0m: Sanhedrin 9:5 is dealing with a repeat offender and/or the punishment you’re referencing is optional for the beis din to mete out at its discretion.
The Noachide Laws apply even to a first-time offender and the capital punishment is automatic and non-discretionary.
The Rashba says the reason a man is saved first is based on the pasuk in Vayikra 25:36, where the pasuk tells us the “brother shall live” with you. The Rambam says the reason is because men have more mitzvos so they have a more important function in life, as a man is more “mekudash” than a woman which gives him precedence להחיות. The Shach (Y.D. 251:11) explains that the definition of להחיות is to save them from a life threatening situation. Also see Rama YD 252:8 and Taz YD 252:6 saying the same precedence is applicable.
The Ya’avetz (quoted in Pischei Teshuva YD 252:7) asks what would be if the threat is not physical but rather spiritual and the community has a choice to redeem either a boy or a girl, but not both, from the spiritual danger. The Ya’avetz concludes that since the precedence is given to the boy for physical danger, it should certainly be given to him for spiritual danger.
The Igros Moshe 7 CM 75 also rules this halacha is applicable. In fact, there’s virtually no disagreement whatsoever among the poskim that this is a valid and applicable halacha. Rav Moshe writes that “that it should be obvious and clear to every Ben Torah and Yirei Shamayim that one is obligated to cure and save every person without regard to their wisdom or knowledge and one should only triage on the basis of the order in the Mishna in Horayos”. (Igros Moshe CM2 74:1). Rav Chaim Rapoport in “The Halachic Hierarchy for Triage” (Le’eyla, June 2001, pp. 27-38) writes “Rabbi Feinstein’s statement clearly reconfirms the unchallenged halachic system: the criteria in the Mishna in Horayos remains binding in contemporary times and have not been displaced by any ‘custom’.” The reluctance by some to use this system, Rav Rapoport says, is an aversion to this politically incorrect and non-egalitarian halachic ideology.
N0m: Mishna Horayos 3:7 (13a in the Gemora), Rambam (on that Mishna), Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh Deah 252:8.
The Halacha most certainly does not “fade away”. The Titanic is a textbook case fitting perfectly into that Halacha. Obviously if goyim are running the show you’re not going to expect them to follow Halacha while we’re in golus. But Yidden most certainly must and will.
1. What “murderer without witnesses” case are you referring to?
If there’s no witnesses, why are you assuming the accused is even guilty of murder altogether?
2. Who do you think enforced non-Jews living in Eretz Yisroel during the times of the Sanhedrin with complying with the law (the 7 obligations are part their laws)?
If a non-Jew worshipped idolatry in Jerusalem, do you imagine that the Sanhedrin (when they were in FULL control with no outside power [i.e. the Romans]) would turn a blind cheek?
I would simply follow the Halacha, as is, as written in the Mishna and Shulchan Aruch. No ifs, ands or buts or variances or excuses or trying to twist what the Halacha says to fardrey an excuse why it doesn’t apply when it is a clear-cut textbook case directly fitting into the aforementioned Halacha. I would have no compunctions whatsoever following the law that the Ribono Shel Olam created and enacted as explained by Chazal, the Rishonim, Achronim and poskim.
That’s all in a Jewish controlled environment, which the Titanic obviously was not thereby precluding following Halacha.
As an aside, do you find it objectionable to how, during the actual emergency, the Titanic crew gender-based triaged who would be saved and who would not?
De Blasio was previously the city councilman for part of large frum neighborhoods. He has a history of helping Yidden on religious and financial issues.
N0m: That Mishna is talking about Yehudim not nochrim. The former has 613 commandments, only a tiny number that carries capital punishment. The latter has 7 commandments, all of which carry an automatic capital punishment, if violated, with the standards of proof necessary for conviction much more relaxed than the former.
Don’t confuse the former with the latter.