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lilmod, what I’m suggesting is that the age of adulthood among us Jews being 13, the goyim currently(*) consider the age to be 18. What we start at age 20 you might say the goyim start at age 21, when they, too, have additional milestones of adulthood to be considered attained (i.e. alchohol, gambling, adoption.)
(*)give the goyim another decade and they’ll raise the age again as they continue infantilizing young adults and not hold them responsible for their actions.
To wit, the Israelis definition in Modern Hebrew that the secularists there created uses the term ????? in the equivalent of the English term, not the Torah definition/ages thereof.
Person1: That’s because the goyim consider young men to be children and their laws treat it as such. Furthermore, the goyim keep raising the age of what is considered a child. Even over the past hundred years the non-Jewish definition of child has changed.
WB Toi!
If one has bad mazal, how does one overcome it?
DY: How do you differentiate the English definitions from what the Torah differentiates between a 12 and 13 year old?
lilmod, how’d you pay for your seminary, schooling, food and housing beginning from age 17?
Meno, It uses the corresponding definitions.
Sparkly, a man is any male 13 years old and older. A boy is any male under 13. This point is not debatable. It’s min HaTorah.
lilmod, how is ‘gals’ demeaning? ‘Babes’ is demeaning, certainly, but not gal afaik. It is simply the linguistic equivalent of guys.
Lady is the equivalent of when you’d call a male a gentleman.
benignuman: What do you mean by “destiny”?
The fact a man could have more than one wife proves he could have multiple zivugim.
I’d also like to hear suggestions for a female equivalent of “guy,”
Gal.
a quirk of the system made it turn out the way it did.
What quirk?
According to the Torah a man can marry multiple women. The Teimanim still practice this.
Chivalrous acts are meant to prove that a man has certain good middos that we wouldn’t necessary expect; they aren’t natural.
zogt_besser: It is both silly and incorrect to assert that men are generally more middos-challenged than women and thus need to prove their good middos more than women.
In any event, your equation of middos with chivalry is contrary to the first definition given by Oxford as well as its listed etymology, which attaches religious significance (i.e. Christian) to it. Why do you also think the term is directly associated with knights (rather than the general public) who were Middle Ages warriors in Christian countries, at a time when warriors fought under the crosses flag?
It’s a message we can all be reminded of, lilmod. Reading through the comment history of this thread makes that pretty clear.
IITFT, they don’t like Rav Shach’s message. But Rav Shach’s message is still Rav Shach’s message.
lilmod, the story about Rav Shach and the two seminary girls is brought down in the Sefer Lulei Sorasecha. You are correct it was a Ramban (not Rambam) they asked him about, but it was kugel not baking that he answered them with.
After the girls asked him about the Ramban, Rav Shach in his trademark warmth and smile asked them if they knew how to make kugel. They affirmed they did. And Rav Shach replied “And I know how to learn yet must still spend my life working on learning better. Your job is to work on making better kugel.”
Rav Shach’s letter is in Michtavim u’Maamarim. The story about Rav Shach has many eyewitnesses.
We have both British and Americans here. And Americans get this word from the English. And Oxford is the authoritative source for English. It clearly is derived from Christian values. It is also deeply associated with warfare. Even if they throw in some nuggets with additional definitions.
There’s an equally sorry state of femininity, with society pushing women to become like men. Given women’s nurturing nature, as you said, it would make sense to stress that by having them take care of, and show care to, their husband (or date) by opening the door for him.
Wait, you went from saying the Rav Shach story had slightly different details than presented to now denying the well known story altogether? Did you read the three paragraph post I made in the other thread mentioning a letter Rav Shach wrote?
The Oxford English Dictionary’s first definition of chivalry is:
The medieval knightly system with its religious, moral, and social code.
It is based on Christian moral values.
Why shouldn’t the girl open the door for her date? Because the Christians do it the other way so you’re going to now call it a “common courtesy” based on how the goyim live? There is no logical reason why the girl should not open the door for her date rather than vice versa other than to follow the common goyish way.
If you can think of another good reason why she shouldn’t open the door for him, please let me know.
Is this the first time I’ve agreed with a comment from Charlie?
Blazes, Syag, you’re still on the warpath even on any silly discussion? Fwiw, no one in my family ever used a Kimpeturin.
But to lower your blood pressure levels, please review the following thread:
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/how-to-get-rid-of-a-grudge
Why not?
To rest up, if she feels it will help her recuperate better.
Syag, are you okay with Kimpeturin after a first childbirth?
I know of a phone repair/replacement shop that can repair screens or upgrade your device.
popa has married grandchildren.
Neither Rav Shlomo Zalman nor Rav Frand were ever mattir walking behind a woman. No posek ever disagreed with the Mechaber and all the poskim who state it is assur l’halacha.
Her husband should take her to the Kimpeturin Heim after every birth.
<bump>
limud, it is assur for him to let her go first or walk behind her. Does anyone here disregard Shulchan Aruch? No posek, absolutely no one, argues against Shulchan Aruch on the issur against walking behind a woman.
Jews do not follow Christian “courtesies”.
A Yid should be wearing his hat anytime he’s on the street and, in general, it should always be part of his uniform.
The Mishna Brura paskens l’halacha that a hat is required to be worn during davening. Rav Chaim Kanievsky said if you don’t have a hat with you, it is better to go home and daven with a hat b’yechidus than to daven in a minyan without a hat.
Chivalry is a Christian value completely anathema to Jewish values.
apy, see my last (three paragraph) comment above.
It isn’t critically important that she know how to cook and bake before you go out with her. It is critically important that she be ready and willing to learn how to cook and bake, should she be short on some of those skills, once married.
lilmod, the Litvishe Gedolim have mentioned that the BY movement has often overstepped their bounds in the emphasis on Meforshim, sometimes crossing the line into things that may not be learned per the halacha it is prohibited to teach girls Torah shebal peh. Rav Shach writes in one of his letters that teaching girls Meforshim in depth would be assur because of this, (the problem is quantifying “in depth”, which makes it easy to rationalize). It is not the Gedolei Yisroel that created the curriculum that they use today in BY. And not all Gedolim agreed with the BY movement altogether; the Hungarian Rabbonim objected to the teaching of Rashi to girls (and certainly Rambans and Maharals) on the basis that it constitutes Torah shebal peh. Others said that since Rashi merely explains the pshuto shel mikrah – the simple meaning of the text, it would be considered Torah shebiksav in this sense.
Some girls who attend high-end BY schools have serious questions about basic Judaism, are confused about their commitment to religion, and possess precious little knowledge of Yesodiei Hayahadus. Aish HaTorah’s Project Chazon became wildly popular in the BY schools by virtue of the fact that they come in and teach basic emunah – the basics of the basics, like Hashem exists, Judaism is the only correct religion, etc. – and the students lap up the material like malnourished children. This is the material that was previously used for beginner baalei teshuva that was imported into the BY’s. And they need to import it because they are not equipped to provide it themselves.
But some of these same girls, who, if you were to ask them why Hashem cares if they’re frum, and will tell you they have no inkling, can successfully tell you the different opinions of how the Egel was formed, which Korbonos were brought for which aveiros, and whether the tzefardeah were frogs or alligators. To the point where Roshei Yeshiva have endorsed that someone trained to educate beginning Baalei Teshuva should be invited to these high-end BY schools and teach the girls why they must be frum. What’s wrong with this picture?