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“converts were just taught about a few mitzvos before completing their gerus.”
Right. But they fully accepted and committed to honor and carry out all mitzvos as they became aware of them.
“Instead, what probably matters is the ger’s intention at the moment of intention — did they intend to accept the yoke of all the mitzvos?”
Exactly. So if they’re joining a community that doesn’t adhere to certain mitzvos, with the expectation that she too needn’t adhere to those mitzvos, i.e. eating non-kosher, immodestly, only “half Shabbos”, etc., then her intention at the moment of immersion is to ignore and not keep the mitzvos that her Jewish fiance and the Jewish community she’s intending to join do not keep either. Thus her intentions cause the conversion to not able to be a valid one.
Gadol, no one at any time ever said here that “Rabbonim monitor those who have been megayer and withdraw their geyrus if the gerim go OTD.” Of course not. If a Ger c”v goes OTD he/she remains a full-fledged Jew forever. The issue here is if the statement accepting kabbalos ohel mitzvos during the conversion process was insincere, then the conversion was never valid and completed in the first place and the person never became a Jew.
As you yourself now conceded and acknowledged as possible in your most recent comment. Except that this principle doesn’t only apply to situations of “block conversions” , such as with the Russians, but rather the principle is true and applicable in any and all conversions, including individual ones, when the person was insincere regarding kabbalos ohel mitzvos.
“Do you enjoy being scared (by fictional media)?”
The New York Times and Washington Post do not scare me.
If a potential convert is planning on joining a Jewish community that fails to fully adhere to all 613 mitzvos, such as some very modern ones where they might eat non-kosher (vegetables, non-meat, etc.) when away from home or dress immodestly or or not fully keep Shabbos (i.e. “half Shabbos”), she cannot join the Jewish people under those conditions where certain mitzvos are ignored or violated since that effectively means she isn’t fully being kabbalos ohel mitzvos, thus rendering the conversion invalid from the get-go.
This point is true even though, obviously, members of that same Jewish community she’s intending to join don’t either fully adhere to the 613, but are nevertheless full-fledged Jews regardless – since they have the advantage of being born Jews.
LC, there were thousands of purported Russian converts in Israel within the past 10 years that a beis din ruled had been invalid geyrus’. (Due to the simple fact that they in reality had not been kabbalos ohel mitzvos despite their mouthing words that they accept the mitzvos but immediately going to eating treif and violating Shabbos after their mikva dunk.) In most of those cases it was years after the purported geyrus that the beis din declared them invalid.
If you say chashuv and rabbonim a bunch of more times, then it’ll actually become so.
The reality is there are many cases where it is later declared that the geirus was never valid in the first place.
Gaon, If you pay the right convert-creator the requested hefty price, then you can be declared a convert without necessarily agreeing to following all 613.
It should be a daily nomination.
“What’s ebay? Is that a store in boro park?”
It’s like a pop up store that travels from city to city to steal business from local frum merchants. That’s what it’s doing ok Boro Park.
Thanks for the tip!
No worries, my friend. These things I never take to heart. And I still love you all the same.
Yes, they’re the same rov, Reb Wolf.
It sure looked like a sold out seating to the naked eye, once the event was underway. Even if the above scan is accurate and from this event, “only” 14,000+ Acheinu Bnei Yisroel coming special together is a monumental achievement.
Even 19,000 (the stadium capacity) men-only is a huge achievement. It is extremely infrequent to find so many of Acheinu Bnei Yisroel gathered together in one venue at one time, especially on such short notice. And for what? To help our brethren thousands of miles away and to listen to Daas Torah. Where else do you have a sellout stadium of 20,000 packed to the brim? (There was some additional seating on the floor.)
Mr. Goren purported to invalidate a completely kosher and valid conversion to fulfill his campaign promise to do exactly that. His ideologies today, hypocritically, get bent out of shape saying that it isn’t possible to declare a previously purported conversion invalid when a real beis din found that thousands of Russian purported converts, who were in fact unconverted pork eaters, as having been invalid. They today choose to ignore their Goren precedent. In the Goren case, the true convert was a shomer Torah u’Mitzvos who davened every day from when he become a ger tzedek until he was niftar, unlike the falsities of the Goren supporters claiming he didn’t know kriyas shma or went to church. That’s why Maran HaGaon HaRav Eliyashiv zt’l declared Goren’s farce a travesty and resigned.
If the naysayers are accurate that this was 98% Satmar, and half of Satmar only participated, that means 20,000 men from Satmar’s New York region attended (there was additional seating on the floor in addition to the regular stadium seating.) If both Satmar’s attended, that would have made it 40,000 local Satmar men. Since the young boys and elderly men didn’t attend, that’s another, say, 35,000 Satmar Chasidim from the New York area Chasidim. Add the 75,000 Satmar women who didn’t attend (it was men only) and we’re talking about 150,000 Satmar Chasidim just in the New York area. Wow, they’re big! Add Satmar in the rest of the US, Canada, Europe and Israel, and you’re at 300,000. And assuming even in New York there were probably many young Satmar men who couldn’t attend the rally due to being busy, at work, not well, etc., it’s probably even bigger.
Are these travelling stores undercutting the local stores pricing?
Yehuda, that’s like asking if you daven in Kehilas Rangers if you must wear a Rangers jersey since everyone there does so in line with that shul’s “minhag”.
I’m not sure about the halachic implications with the limited information in the OP, but this sounds like a non-local store is simply out to make some sales and are using their city base as a marketing tactic to drum up sales on their travelling route.
LB, as you now see, I was correct.
The Rav Yaakov Shapiro of frumteens was highly commended by the Orthodox Union Magazine, Jewish Action, in a lengthy article focusing on his kiruv work rescuing teens at risk, and literally saving their lives, as the OU documented in their article.
LB, I’m confident those claiming gedolei rabbonim will be stumped to name any.
What’s the deal with you one day severely impugning Rav Kotler shlita, and even using your nick to mock him, and today suddenly your using his name to ostensibly support your point?
None of them, to my knowledge, opposed it. They all could be supportive even if they don’t attend. Just because you support a cause doesn’t necessarily mean you can physically come, as you might have other responsibilities at the time that you feel take precedence. Such as Limud HaTorah, for example.
Otherwise, gedolei yisroel such as Rav Aharon felt it so important that not only do they support it morally they felt they had to close their Gemorah and actually come to make a statement. Not every godol necessarily agrees how to treat the same causes they support. Or the other Gedolim could easily have determined between themselves that Rav Aharon, could represent them all as he’s the senior godol on the Moetzes Gedolei HaTorah and Rosh Yeshiva in America.
And if you do find a godol or two who is officially on the record as having opposed the event? (I’m not sure any such exist, but maybe there’s a couple out there.) So what. Gedolim always have differences of opinion between themselves. Even when they might all oppose Zionism, they might have different approaches on how to fight it. Openly or quietly. Loudly or more tamed. Publicly or privately. Etc.
But in this case while there are scores and scores of Gedolim who officially and on the record supported the actual protest, I don’t know of even a single one on the record as opposing it. (And I’m not referencing those that only issued a letter saying that a previous letter in their name was a forgery. That doesn’t indicate one way or another if they support or oppose the event. Nor does it indicate the forgery itself wasn’t made by lay opponents of the event to make supporters look bad when they “discovered” the forgery.) If you know any on the record as opposing it, share with us that official statement of theirs. But that doesn’t change anything I wrote.
That we need to be prepared to go to jail and, if necessary, be physically beaten by the government authorities if that’s what it takes refusing to join their military and take us away from our Torah HaKedosha.
And for those outside Eretz Yisroel, raise the alarm in the international community among our local legislative representatives and national leaders to the harm the Israeli government is inflicting upon religious Jewish residents of the Holy Land.
And for everyone to daven and learn in the zchus that the gezeira ra is overturned. And be aware of what our brethren in Eretz HaKodesh are facing.
Which rabbonim, specifically?
The one that sat right next to Rav Aharon Schechter in the center of the dais.
“And who makes such a finding on an retroactive basis?”
A beis din certainly can. It’s happened to thousands of purported geyrus’ in Eretz Yisroel alone within the past 10 years.
Future, *specifically which* gedolei hador ever permitted co-ed high schools?
“Once a geyrus is completed…”
It isn’t completed if the kabbalos ohel mitzvos was lacking.
If another Jew is interested in marrying a gentile woman, can he too have her convert by her accepting the same Jewish type lifestyle as Ivanka, and it be a valid conversion? Or is that option only available to high net worth individuals who can pay the appropriate fees to make that happen?
This indicates that you, too, agree that in the absence of her being a born Jew, it is understood that she hasn’t had a true kabbalos ohel mitzvos to have had a valid geyrus.
If the Get is a Get me’usa, you must make that fact public so that someone doesn’t marry an eishes ish. If the conversion was invalid, you must make that fact public so that others don’t intermarry.
WB Shticky Guy!
“So, what is the message of those 4.5 hours of speeches?”
To resist the Zionist government secular indoctrination and military draft of even a single, even weak, frum Yid. (If you insist on the impossible, to summarize the message of over a dozen gedolei yisroel shlita [litvish, chasidish and sefardish] from America and Eretz Yisroel in a sentence.)
Rav Aharon Schechter shlita, the Satmar Rebbe shlita, Rav Yaakov Shapiro shlita and many other rabbonim spoke poignantly and very well.
“How bout the rest of them?”
The rest of them too should be adhered to and followed completely. No one said otherwise.
Avi, brush up on what the Chofetz Chaim says one is permitted and even a mitzvah to say about a regular repetitive sinner who commits his sins publicly. He doesn’t agree with your application of lh and hsr.
There are heiterim for eating chazer, too. There are heiterim for killing someone, also, depending on the circumstances. So lets not condemn the guy who killed the little boy five years ago. Or anyone who publicly eats chazer.
Someone who isn’t frum to begin with can’t then convert his non-Jewish girlfriend since she isn’t agreeing to be completely frum, as required.
And for the umpteenth time there is no reason to believe a rabbanite recognized US bais din did the conversion. Furthermore, the zionist rabbinite is far from being a good arbiter on which beis din is kosher or not.
Maybe some shuls need to put extra hats in the hallway before you enter the shul, the same way some old shuls have extra yarmulkas in the hallway.
Co-ed high school is assur; sterile/pure gashmiyus is hedonism.
Random: You were unaware of that till now?
Even putting aside all the kashrus, church and Shabbos issues over the years, no one even attempted to address the issue of him long term dating (bf/gf) a non-Jewess for years.
From the RCA website:
Non-GPS Conversions
While the RCA encourages its members to use GPS, it recognizes that some may choose not to, in their role as the local rabbinic authority. Such rabbis recognize that other rabbis are similarly free to not recognize conversions from outside GPS in their jurisdiction.Even the RCA recognizes someone who underwent an “Orthodox” conversion can fairly and halachicly have that conversion not recognized as valid within Orthodoxy, if the other rabbis deem it problematic.
R4nd0m3x, GPS is the RCA/BDA geyrus protocol of the last 6+ years. That said, there’s no reason to believe that in this case she underwent the process within the framework of GPS. (And even had she, the enumerated problems still subsist.)