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@ Always If it is the decimal is representing a percentage that earn more than or equal to $28,000, than for YU should be 3193 out of 4000. For Lakewood, it would be
1876 out of 4000 above the poverty line.
My question would be Turo, at 53.1% Do they have a higher number of graduates going into lower paying fields, like social work, or choosing to be part time after marriage?
@ Aveira Not everyone is made for entrepreneurship, and many of those who committ to it fail multiple times before possibly succeeding. The point of providing a basic education is that everyone has choises available to them.@ AviraDeArah I don’t think anyone is saying that the boys are not bright. The question is that since the state has a legitimate interest in an educated citizenry, what is an objective way of determining that they are receiving a basic education.
Regarding the language issue, some Amish operate their own schools where instruction is completely in Dutch / German. Others send their children to the local school district, which finds and hires teachers that speak Dutch / German, and work with the Amish community to create an acceptable curriculum As I mentioned, the Amish argued and won in the Supreme Court for their children to leave school after 8th grade
The Amish are firm in their religious principles and fought for what mattered most to them, but otherwise adhered to their responsibilities under the law.
There is precedent for finding accomodation for a religious community.@ ujm Yeshiva Education today is different then it was 40 years, much less 2000. Most people consider that an improvement.
@ AviraDeArah So do you think that if they were retested, the results would be different? Or that a different method needs to be used to assess their proficiency in basic skills? If the latter, what would you suggest?
@ Eddie I would suggest that you have a frank, respectful discussion with you Rav about what aspects of chinuch are determined with consultation with Daas Torah, and which decisions are made by administrators. I think you’ll find there is more room for parental concern and involvement is Torah education then you assume.s@ ubiquitin If you legitimately don’t feal it necessary to teach secular subjects, than don’t. It’s a principled decision that you can defend all the way to the Supreme Court. The Amish, for example, won in the Supreme Court when they argued that for religious reasons, their children only attend school until 8th grade.
Buts lets be honest to ourselves and others about what we are doing, and why.To clarify, standardized aren’t the only it necessarily the best way of evaluating a school. But it does give an objective measure of performance. Saying that “most of the kids turn out OK” is subjective, and misses the point. What metric are we using to support the claim that yeshiva secular education is performing adequately?
@ ADA Girls and boys schools are different in the Orthodox world. They have different administrations, different priorities, different staff, and different expectations from their students.
An objective study would involve boys yeshivos with limited hours of instruction.@ ubiquin The most obvious would be standardized test scores for secular subjects. A study of a representative sample of yeshivos that offer limited hours of secular education, so that the results accurately reflect the level of instruction being provided. The must be available somewhere; we have more of an interest in the answer than the NYT
For everyone proclaiming that Jewish education is “just fine”, what objective studies or reports can you present to support your position? It is an important enough question that any of the reputable organizations should be able to provide independently verified data.
@ besalel No.
@ ADA Delay and obfuscate.
@ common Irrelevant.
@ Gadol There is a legitimate argument for providing basic skills in primary school and either an apprenticeship or technical program to learn a trade.
@ ADA This isn’t about CRT, gender studies, or whatever boogyman talk radio is babbling about. It’s isn’t even about hours of instruction or covering basic materials. The real “threat to Jewish education” that the yeshiva education establishment will fight tooth and nail to prevent are minimum qualifications for teachers. Increasingly, yeshivos are relying on seminary graduates and retirees to teach secular classes on a part time or “temporary” basis.@ Crazy Horsey
But the children…
No.
Just no.
ujm: Were you well like by your peers as a child?
yungerman: A charismatic leadership structure doesn’t survive the death of the person at the top. Coincidentally it is also commonly found in cults.
The moderator needs to do a better jos on blocking trolls from attacking Yeshiva education.
But, what is a troll?
But, what is.troll? Do you have the right to question my identity?!
It’s time to say Sabbatical,
because all your trolling is done…@ littleamphibian
That’s what SHE said.
First to dox, than detox, followed by botox, and wearing crocks without socks, next thing you know you’re watching CNN and having pineapple chicken on Shabbos…
We’d rather have a democratically elected government than one ruled by little orange men.
The government can’t guarantee access to a NORMAL education either.
When were done talking about Mormons, let’s start finding nice things to day about Lubavitch…
Unquestionably you are believed about yourself.
Mostly peaceful.
I think its wonderful that the Orthodox community is considered important and meaningful enough to merit its own agitprop.
I’d call out the sophmoric bigotry of the OP, but instead I’ll point out that shallow generalizations are indicative of a life untroubled by experience or meaningful relationships.
Coffee,
2 & 3 definitely apply.
1 too, when you consider that youd still need a ride back.
I’m the wrong person to ask, I dont think משולחים going door to door is appropriate these days either.1. Hitchhikng isnt safe, for the driver or the passenger.
2. בחורים belong either in the בית מדגש or in the IDF.
3. There are plenty of other ways to get somewhere they legitimately need to me.@ ujm thank you for demonstrating the absurdity of hyperbolic rhetoric.
Mods, please count this toward my 150 words per year of “something nice to say”.Editing historical fact is a bad look, mod. The Borschr Belt was established by Jews fleeing the Lower East Side, who lived in tenements which were by most accounts unhygienic and yes, rat infested.
She was defining race by skin pigmentation and physical characteristics, as supposed to ethnicity. In general, not a problem. In the context of the Holocaust, it is.
@gadolhador Are you referring to the “indigenous” people who crossed the Berring Bridge to “colonized” the Americas?
And are you equating tribal nations to family names?
And what pastoral ideal would have been represented by Silverstein in the 1950s?edited
Problem is, filter would also block their “editorials”.
The “editorials” are a favor. We could just delete.
She had a routine where she “acted” like an old Jewish woman for laughs. About as amusing as blackface. An extremely overrated human being.
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Illeterare in 4 languages
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@ jack Biden ran again Trump. A large part of his pitch was that Trump was a crass, uncaring individual. Afghanistan provided a naked contrast between their leadership styles.