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naftush,
do you know why frum jews eat cholent on shabbes?
rob:
thats right,its not because 1700 yidden got on that train,that he was innocent,because on the flip side he caused hundred of thousand of them to die…
so why are you glorifying kastner??
not enough proof???
are you kidding????
truth:
ok.and look what happened to them….
truthunfiltered:Ymb,
you say
“never in the history of golus was there an army to defend ourselves”
A very untrue statement maybe you should go check but their were many places were Jews had armies post exile.
name me one please.
thank you
rob(interesting roshei teivos): A couple of things: I have no desire-nor will I- re-open the debate about kastner and “the train”. Neither of us were there so we have no idea what Kastner did or did not do. The only fact we know is that 1700 jews were saved (amongst them many chareidim). As far Eichmann is concerned, he is burning in hell for all eternity but even ‘reshoim’receive ‘sechar’ for their good deeds and so maybe this is why he lived for another 17 years.
there are so many points so lets go one by one.if he saved(!) SO MANY yidden,Then why did israel kill him???
they should have given him honorary righteous of the gentiles title,given him a medal etc.???please answer me this point and only this point.
As I said, I am not interested in re-opening the Kastner debate, “shmoel”. But allow me to answer your (seemingly) provocative question- that it was Eichmann who saved the jews by allowing this train to go through.
Eichmann was caught in 1960 and executed in 1962. So he lived for another 17 years after the war. WHY? If you believe, as you constantly write, that everything is ‘min hashomaym”, why did HKBH allow him to live (pretty well ,I may say) for fiteen years after his dastardly and evil deeds?
Maybe, just maybe, it was the “sechar’ (reward) for having let 1700 Jews live. I’d like to hear your answer on that.
so what was he according to you???a tsaddik(???)??so why did the israelis kill him??
a rasha(and he only merited to live that long cuz rasha vetov lo to punish him better in the next world)??then why is kastner any different???
rabbiofberlin:As far as Israel goes- you are entitled to your opinion but you are not entitled to your facts.Eretz Yisroel was always a magnet to jews who wanted to live in Eretz Yisroel and make ‘alyah”- yes- this is what R’Jehuda halevi, The Bartenura, the Ari ,the Bias josef , and so many others did-they made alyah to live in eretz Yisroel.
you are proving my point.we didnt need the state of israel to live in the land of israel.we didnt need the state for the kosel,people davened there for centuries before.
It is ‘min hashomaim” that there was a movement in the late nineteenth century to establish jewish sovereignity over eretz yisroel-that movement was actually called “chovevei tsion”a fully orthodox movement and it became the zionist movement.
wrong again.they had no intention of making a state ,just to live in ertz yisroel under the rule of whoever was living there.
I believe-unlike you- that EVERYTHING is “min hashomaim”- including the zionist movement.
you know what?i believe it too!!but it comes under the title
“levaavur nassos eschem”.
The facts are that over six million jews live there, Torah is thriving and all of this is possible because HKBH gave us the means to defend ourselves- the army. Live with it.
actually there are under six million jews in israel today.
and that includes all the jews converted by the state and its organizations,where a good percentage of them are null and void as we know.or just that the government states they were jews before they came to israel ,like ethiopians russians etc.
tora is thriving no thanks to israel who made every effort to eradicate it from us(the biggest shmad there ever was),but by the vision of our gedolim who pushed for a kollel and another kollel and another yeshiva!!!!
mdd:Ymb, they do not owe anything to the state of Israel?!? What about all the money for the yeshivos? What a disgrace! What a chillul HaShem
you missed my point.if eretz yisrael would be under british or any other rule,the yeshivos would get the same funding as they do now.
mdd:Ymb, stop with the lunacy!!! If they lived in US or Poland, or Russia, and there were a draft, you would also tell the government to go jump in the lake? Are you out of your mind?
point is now there is no draft in any of those countries along with the british who were rulers before 1948.if we would be under their rule,there would be no draft.
rabbi of berlin:ymb- (shmoel or josef under a diffent name ?) First, get your history right. Many nazis were caught and executed by the allies and many more were sent to prison;
by the allies yes!!but by the israelis only eichmann!!because as you said:BTW- Eichmann was a special symbol and this why Israel mae every effort to catch him so they wanted to look like they were the heroes killing the bad guy(long after they had a hand in helping)meanwhile they couldnt care less about catching germans cuz they were working with them all along,they were quite happy with the killing of the “old” jew who was to weak to resist…
rabbi of berlin
do you not believe that everything is min hashomayim??
isnt it funny that the only nazi that israelis ever caught and killed was eichman???(kurt becher who was saved by kastner along with the zionists blessings lived in total freedom in germany for a long time and became very wealthy).
kastner was actually convicted to being a nazi collaborator and after he appealed that decision was murdered(by who? the israelis…)
bottom line:
how dare you zionist force us to serve in your army?
we do not belong to the state of israel.
we were there long before the state of israel.
we do not owe anything to the state of israel.
yeshivos exist everywhere in the world and would have existed in eretz yisroel without the state.
the insecurity for which you need an army was caused by you and your terrorist activities already pre state.
never in the history of jews in golus was there an army to defend ourselves.
ah sorry bar kochba(8 million jews dead).
thanks to an earlier post who referred to rabbi forman saying All Akhb as well i went online to see that.typed rabbi forman.the first video that came up you see an eldery rabbi from the shtachim,wearing tfillin, going to an arab village,after there was damge to one of the mosques there,shaking the leaders’s hand and shouting all. akhb. 3 times like the nk.and explaining that some people do evil and we do not condone their actions,(just like the frum jews do not condone actions by zionists)
but somehow this video goes unnoticed while the nk get all the heat..
how is that???
AinOhdMilvado
at the moment,and since 1948 nowhere is safe but eretz yisroel was and is the least safe of all places…..cuz of the medina.
ymb,
avi k:1. It’s a sevara. The three shevuot are a package deal. If they do not persecute us “too much” we will not rebel. The Maharsha alludes to this. He also says that not making aliya “like a wall” refers to making aliya by force and building walled cities like Nehemia. The Maharal says (Chiddushei Aggadot) that the three together allow the Galut to exist. Thus, if one falls they all fall.
In yeshivish this is called a boych sevara..the maharsha says absolutely nothing about that.he does mention nechemiah’s building which was darius’s full permission.he never rebelled against darius,and the 2nd beis hamikdash was build under his kingdom.he does not mention at all your sevara.btw the maharal which you mention says that the shvouos apply and they are even yehareg veal yaavor!!!! so dont tell me that deal is over if they persecute us..
2. Your quote was obviously either written before the Balfour Declaration and San Remo conference or was simply a commentary on the pasuk. After these events he said that the walll had been broken down (“HaTekufa HaGedola” pg. 175 quoted in “Torat Eretz Yisrael” pg.289 footnote 28 and “HaTor” second publishing year, third edition quoted there pg. 234).
the meshech chochma was published in 1927 that is 10 years after the balfour declaration….
and you dont get it ,he says that the issur to go up is till a navi comes and says we must go ,if you call balfour a navi then im sorry but there must be something im missing
AVI K.You Keep saying the same argument,not listening to the responses.
part 1 has been answered many times.Why should the fact that Goyim transgressed the Shvua Have any affect on us???
Part 2 You keep mentioning The Or Samach.Well Have a look at his sefer al hatora ,the Meshech Chochme,at the end of parshas Vayechi.He says on the possuk pakod yifkoyd:
Hinei lamdom Ki Lo Yaalu bechomo ad KI BONOVI MHASHEM TISBORACH veyomar Pokod vchl.
VEZE LIMUD LEDOYROS SHELO YAALU MEATZMON
VELO KEMO SHEOSSU BENE EFRAYIM SHEHIKDIMU HAKETZ,VEGAM SHEYOYMAR HANOVI LAALOS EL ERETZ ACHERES HU NOVI SHEKER RAK SHEYOMAR SHEYAALU LOORETZ ASHER NISHBA LAAVOYSENU UKEMO SHEHOYO BEMOSHE REBEYNU.
IN SHORT NO GOING UP BECHOMA UNTIL A NOVI SAYS YOU CAN..
IM AFRAID NO NOVI HAS YET COME,BUT HE SHOULD COME BEKOROV.
SO DONT MENTION R’MEIR SIMCHA…IT WILL WORK AGAINST YOU.
SAM2: Why did RYBZ go to the Roman General???Because He was The top Guy in the ENEMY Camp!!!He wanted to APPEASE him!The general asked him:If you Have a pot of honey(the Beth Hamikdash with the jews that dont wanna rebel ie the perushim or FRUMMERS)with a snake(the biryonim who wanna fight and rebel against rome) around it,how do you get rid of the snake?? dont you have to hit the snake even though you are gonna break the pot of honey???
And RYBZ could have answered you could take pincers and be careful but Hashem did not put it in his head therefore he could only plead for a few things…
And thats what the NK are doing..
mdg.so why is all the fuss about ahmadinejad,it should be only on nasrallah meanwhile the opposite is true.
you are just proving my point.if Ajad Really wanted all the jews killed why does he not get rid of all of them in iran??same goes for turkey which only has a problem about israel but not jews..
Stupid people think antisemitism started with the medina…well it didnt seem to bother jews so much because they were still living there!!and they were quite wealthy too!!but suddenly they ran away to israel and left EVERYTHING!!!! were talking about billions of Dollars.
Israel got them kicked out.. you should learn a little bit about what israel and the ‘jewish agency’ did in arab lands like iraq,morocco,after 1948.they actually KILLED JEWS(not talking about the HOLOcaust)to get them to emigrate….
You should read a little.
i dont know why there is so much hate about them.but i know that in the time of the Churban,One Jew and his followers also went to the enemy General,and he was hated for it just the same.His name was R’yochanan ben Zakai….Check the gemara in Gittin 57 which brings this Maase.What is the difference between Nk and Him ,He was also nearly killed for going to speak to the enemy…
the NK are right for going and who knows how many jews are still alive because of them..
Btw Ahmadunejad never said he hates jews his rants have only been about zionists….
the biggest jewish community in arab lands today is in IRAN!!!!Thanks to israel which got them kicked out of all others..
look up “genocide in the holy land”,but more important,”Holocaust victims accuse” by rabbi moshe shonfeld..
chevre,tachlis,the reasons against the medina are because it is a violation of the3 shvues.
although the ‘religious’zionists”(which rav elchonon says is a stira minei ubei because it means it means toras hashem need the leum as well and is not temima chas veshalom)says it is not halacha but haggada,that is a stupidity because plenty of hagada is halacha,and the avnei nezer explains what these shvues are.he says Hashem yisborach made klal yisroel swear that during the golus they will never be transgress these 3 these oaths,for if they do Hashem will chas veshalom take away HIs Hashgoche pratis that protects us, from us ,and Mimeyle the possuk ANI MATIR ES BESSARCHEM KETSVAOS VEAYaLOS HASSODE…WHICH Is the most dangerous thing there could be.(the tragic Fogel Massacre Reminded me of this!!)Take into Account that since israel was founded many many More yidden have been killed there than in the whole world combined…
thats without taking into account how much we have suffered because of them.
every time israel is into the news because it NEEDS to retaliate antisemitism around the world crops up….ANd Jews all around the world suffer because of them…but what do they care..
rabboisai.the oilem should read genocide in the holy landwhich bring in detail the shmad commited to the teimani iraqi etc CHILDREN!!its got hundred of documents to prove it.but its very hard to find because its been banned!!!so has perfidy which details the the collaboration of zionist leaders to the destruction of hungary’s jews.and they should learn if they are able to the Vayoel moshe which is not a extremist sefer,but a halacha sefer. the baba sali, when he was given it locked himself in a room for three days.after which he came out and says rabbotay,we need to make a siyum i have just finished a masechta.