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The only time I used to see a limousine in Boro Park when I was growing up was at a funeral.
What happenned?
“As long as Jewish tax dollars pay for the chaleres using welfare, every qualified Jew should take FULL advantage of every available dollar.”
Chaleres did not become chaleres overnight.
Copy their behavior and what will you become?
“parnassa is min hashamayim”
Then why bother to send delegations to collect.
Why make support deals with in-laws?
Why look for a “rich” shidduch?
This thread is another example of kollel values (i.e. non-work, government programs, charity) warping traditional values.
Tzippi,
Thanks for mentioning the Chemotherapy as Metaphor article. It was very thoughtful and covered many issues that concern me such as child rearing. It’s encouraging to see that some leaders are aware of the serious problems that eminate from the “Kollel revolution.” Hopefully, the kollel system can evolve into something that unites rather than divides.
The fact that there is a hot and heavy debate going on right here, indicates to me that Rabban Gamaliel was right on the money, and in his wisdom foresaw many of the problems being discussed. “..Great is study of the Torah when combined with a worldly occupation, for toil in them both puts sin out of mind. All study of the Torah which is not supplemented by work is destined to prove futile and causes sin…..” seems quite straightforward.
According to the absurd logic of some posters here, Rabban Gamaliel is anti- kollel and therefore anti-Torah as he stated; “..Great is study of the Torah when combined with a worldly occupation, for toil in them both puts sin out of mind. All study of the Torah which is not supplemented by work is destined to prove futile and causes sin…..”
I’d love to understand why this is ignored.
I love reading Perke Avot.
It says in Chapter 2:
2. Rabban Gamaliel the son of Rabbi Judah the Prince said: Great is study of the Torah when combined with a worldly occupation, for toil in them both puts sin out of mind. All study of the Torah which is not supplemented by work is destined to prove futile and causes sin…..
I’d love to hear where Yissoschor/Zevulin relationship is cited, and an explanation.
Kollel is really about whether we want to completely restructure family life in the frum community. I believe that is why so many people are upset with this concept. The young man with no profession, the wife going off to work and spending less time within the family, the infants being taken care of by others, the older generation postponing retirement and going deeply into debt, constant concerns about money and receiving charity and welfare. And this is only for starters. The question of learning or not is simple when compared to questions about family life. Are we ready to accept these changes? The title of this thread is the “kollel revolution,” and that is exactly what it is.
There are very good reasons why it is written that a father should teach his son a trade. Nowhere does it say a father should teach his son how to work the welfare system, or how to be an excellent shnorrer.
Hi,
I highly recommend East Midwood Hebrew Day School as a school with a warm accepting atmosphere, and a strong academic program. Two of my children have gone there and we consider ourselves fortunate to have discovered it after negative experiences with one of the more prestigious yeshivas in the neighborhood.
Oomis 1105 you say that the kollel boy is “doing SOMETHING productive with his non-employed time. He isn’t out drinking, doing drugs, shooting pool, messing around with arayos.” You could have also added that he isn’t out stealing cars, raping, going to Atlantic City, or playing the horses as examples of how he is “doing something productive.” Gee, we all should be proud of the high standards he is setting.
40 years ago, the entire discussion about black hats would not even have taken place. Hats could have been brown, gray, etc. and were not mandatory. As a matter of fact, non Jews in Boro Park commonly wore the same types of hats as Jews going to shul.