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“If you look at photos of yeshivish Jews from 30 years ago.. “
30 years ago they were called frum Jews.
I don’t “yeshivish” was used then.
Really sad when a father who works to support his family is considered a bad influence. The values this represents are really quite disturbing.
“The parents can always say “no””
Even if the parents do give support, just knowing that they may be delaying their retirement and perhaps working while they may have age related health problems, should cause someone who is a “mensch” to reconsider taking their support.
“The parents can always say “no”,…”
I would imagine there is the fear of not being allowed to see the grandchildren if they say no, among other things.
Aside from government funds, another frequent source of support for kollel families is their parents.
Does asking a parent to delay retirement so he can go to kollel place him on a higher level than someone who actually helps support his elderly parents?
While the opening poster clearly wanted information about a career, the third post ridiculed him for wanting to leave kollel, and after that the discussion became about the pros and cons of kollel.
“Why is it that only two posts in this thread actually address the original question?”
Because the concept of a large population of men in kollel and all that it ensues is highly controversial. Whenever kollel is discussed, it usually ends up in a discussion like this one.
“it’s a little different than a situation where a mother has the burden of supporting the family and is deprived of the joy of motherhood.. “
Let’s not forget the children,especially,toddlers, who are being shuttled around and dropped off at babysitters.
“I’m saying the kollel system intrinsically has the power to introduce a form of marital stress…”
I would imagine that having the wife be the family breadwinner while the husband sits and learns could upset family dynamics in unforeseen ways.
All too often people focus on what they don’t have rather on what they do have.
Not being able to afford a house(in one’s thirties), seems to trump having a good job,a wife, and children in yeshiva.
Just like owning a house is a way to invest, having your children in yeshiva is a way to invest-in their future.
“It would just make any spoilage issues worse.”
Why does Chalav Yisrael have any spoilage issues?
Why are stores able to sell gallon containers of Chalav Stam?
“It doesnt make sense for the producers and sellers. As a general rule of thumb, the larger the size, the lower the unit cost.”
By this logic there wouldn’t be gallon containers of Chalav Stam in stores.
Yet we see many gallon containers of Chalav stam in stores.
“Of course given the average family size, bli ayin hara, of the chalv yisroel consuming family, gallon sized containers makes a lot of sense from the consumer perspective.”
A producer who produced gallon containers of CY could pick up market share by meeting the needs of many families.
I wonder why I don’t see gallon containers of Chalav Yisroel in local stores. Consumers might save money if gallons were sold and this might encourage some to use it.
One thing about weight. If a person wants to change their weight, it is doable, but it may take work. Such traits as a gloomy personality, pessimism, character flaws,and anger are much harder to change. So if weight is your problem, your much better off than someone with a nasty disposition.
Chas V’shlaom, she may have to marry someone who actually works for a living.
The “white shirt uniform” implies that people cannot decide for themselves what constitutes “correct” dress. I guess those you believe in the “uniform” have voluntarily given up their right to decide their own dress code. Others are not willing to voluntarily cede their right to choose their own clothing and feel they can choose appropriate dress themselves.
Not surprised this book has a problem. The penguins are running around without any clothes.
Mamarochelcry, I applaud your concern for your parents and your choice to be self supporting. Your evident common sense, strength of character, and kind heart are wonderful traits.I hope you continue to believe in yourself and disregard all the outside pressures.
“One size fits all,” may be convenient when buying a hat but for living a life, I don’t know.
Young ladies, suppose you were coerced from childhood into one career path whether you were suited for it or not. You were told that straying off this career path would make marriage in your community difficult. How would you feel? Do you think finding a rich father -in-law would recompense for 8-10 hours at a career which you were unsuited for and found tedious? Isn’t that what many boys have to deal with?
“I know of a few middle aged men who have been in kollel for their entire married life……. They come across as bitter and ungrateful. Perhaps this is because they dont feel like they accomplished much in life.”
This is very sad and I wouldn’t be surprised if their families have many problems.
“so I keep a gluestick and signs saying DONT BLOCK MY DRIVEWAY waiting by the front door”
Probably just putting the note under his windshield wiper with a statement that his license has been recorded would serve the same effect.
I have seen people park 3 feet or more into a driveway space, blocking the homeowner from moving his car. Their reasoning, ” I thought you had enough room to get out.” Are these people just dumb or just plain rude?
My neighbor called the police when his driveway was blocked. The police told him he could now have the car towed away.
There is a website where folks can post sightings of nannies interacting with there charges. You can check it out at I Saw Your Nanny.blogspot.
It’s ironic that some who would never let anyone drive their car lest it get scratched, entrust their babies to people who they hardly know.
‘If in 20 years, it is no longer feasible, they will no longer do it.”
The culture of dependency may have very negative long term effects.
Someone I know became afraid of leaving the house because of the danger of the streets and rarely went out. This person became obese and had all sorts of health problems. It turned out that being inside was many times more dangerous than facing the world.
It may seem that being fearful of places like libraries and staying out of them is the safest thing to do. But like the person who tried to hide from life found out, sometimes it is best to develop the strength to face life’s dangers.
“…we adopt the worst of the non-Jewish culture, not the best… .”
What is troubling is that some of this behavior is being institutionalized and legitimized.
Thank you, missme.
“….I know someone who went out with a girl recently who was described as beautiful (not cute but beautiful!) by 6 different people who were called….”
The 6 different people probably knew her and to them she really was beautiful. This young lady was quite blessed not to get involved with this family.
“what goes around comes around…”
Best bocher may find him with an empowered wife as she will be out in the world and bringing in the dough.
This may have consequences in family dynamics.
For example, a dissatisfied wife may not be fearful of leaving a marriage as she has a livelihood, while a “best bocher” who married for “support” may find that “support” demands a stiff price.
I wonder if the the hat, white shirt, and jacket worn at all times pose a financial burden on families. The hats are not inexpensive and for a family with a number of young men the costs mount up. And then there is the cost of cleaning the white shirts and jackets. I believe that there is a uniform that Bnei Torah can wear to let everyone know that they are Bnei Torah. It’s called Tzitzit.
Fred Mertz a character of the “I Love Lucy Show”(1950s) always wore a jacket, hat, and tie, even indoors. I guess if someone saw him walking down the street today in Flatbush he might think he was a Ben Torah.
“whats the thing with diabetics and feet? e/o is always concerned about feet for some reason…does anyone know anything?”
when I was younger I used to wonder why there was so many podiatrists in the neighborhood. Now that I have diabetes (type2) I know. Foot care is especially important to diabetics. A diabetic may have nerve damage to the nerves in the foot (neuropathy). The danger lies in not feeling pain and a diabetic with neuropathy may step on a nail and not feel it. Also, diabetics may have poor blood circulation in their feet. Poor blood flow makes it hard for a sore or infection to heal.
I wonder if dress should be appropriate for one’s climate. Does it make sense for an Eskimo to go out with a short sleeved shirt and no hat in winter. Does someone living in the Amazon need to go about his daily chores in a fur coat? Does being overdressed in New York City on a hot August day contribute to fatigue and lack of energy to go about one’s daily tasks?
An informed citizenry is necessary to ensure our democracy’s continuation. Knowledge of American history and an understanding of how our government functions are an important part of being an informed citizen. Frum Jews need to be informed citizens. There is no excuse not to be.
It’s pretty amazing that after thousands of years of history we are debating whether a man’s place is in the work force or the Bais Medrash. There doesn’t seem to be controversy here over the role of women or infants. Women belong in the work place and infants in day care.
Straw hats were mentioned in an earlier post. I was wondering if, as long as uniforms are being worn, it would make sense to adapt the uniform to the climate. Here in NY it is hot and humid in the summer. Wearing a black hat, long sleeve shirt, and jacket seems uncomfortable to me. Why not a straw hat?
Keep in mind that a person has control over their weight. Marry someone because they are thin, and guess what, after marriage he/she can put on a lot of weight. Likewise, a person rejected as overweight today can lose that weight.
Other traits such as arrogance, insensitivity, and selfishness
are a lot harder to change and a lot less visible.
“..by the time she’s 24 Shadchanim are offering her, with few exceptions, society’s rejects and commitment phobes. The problem-free guys in the appropriate age group (generally about 3 years older) have already found their bashertes.. “
Some of the nicest people I know, male or female, may be unmarried by 24. Some of the biggest jerks I know, may be married at 18 or 19. Just because a guy convinces someone to marry him at 19 does not make him problem free. Just because a guy has not found someone by 24 does not make him a loser.
“Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his children, because he was the son of his old age: and he made him a coat of many colours.”
If a colored shirt was good enough for Joseph, it should be good enough for us.
People can succeed without good spelling skills, the knowledge of language, or academic degrees.
Most important is a strong work ethic.
There still are too many people giving up before they begin, and who are defending a culture of dependency.
“Mutual funds have high fees and usually don’t beat the S&P500 long-term. “
An index fund with a low expense ratio, and there are several, will mirror the S&P 500.
The Jewish “uniform” may really be the dress of an American businessman of the 50s, a Russian Cossack, or a Polish nobleman. Throw in the Borsolino and you have an Italian monk. What does any of this have to do with being Jewish?
Perhaps the reason that there is a disparity in the number of marriageable young men and women in the frum community lies in the different rates the two groups diverge over time.
Suppose about an equal number of boys and girls are born in a community in the year 1989.
By 2009 the numbers may no longer be equal for these 20 year olds.
It appears that there are more girls than boys in a given age group.
Perhaps fewer boys than girls survive to a given age due to accidents or illness.
Perhaps a greater number of boys than girls have mental health problems that make them unsuitable for Shidduchs at that time.
Perhaps a greater number of boys than girls “drop out’ of the yeshiva world and are thus no longer in the pool of shidduch candidates.
Perhaps if we know why there is an inequality we can take steps to remedy the problem.
The discussion about the black hat etc. seems to pop up periodically. I wonder if it is because this “uniform” and all the current minhagim associated with it seems to be a relatively new phenomenon. Young adults probably think this is the way it always has been. Older folks can recall a time when a jacket and hat were worn to shul on Shabbos and a were not limited in color and style.
Lately I’m feeling that I’m not living in the heart of a frum neighborhood in Brooklyn, but rather I’m in a medieval European town. The men, this their flat, round black hats, hoods which look like enormous cowls, and long black overcoats make me feel that I’m among monks hurrying to perform their service. Ironic, isn’t it?
“im just trying to point out that we dress like Yidden and not like goyim.. “
I guess Fred Mertz (I Love Lucy Show) was a frum Yid. In every episode he is seen in his apartment wearing a white shirt and tie. He even wore a hat when he went out!
So we have kippas, talit, tefillin, tzitzit; to name a few items of religious significance. Have I left any out?
Where does a black hat, jacket, white shirt, fit in?
Society as a whole presents mixed messages regarding alcohol.
It is often presented as part of a good time, a happy occasion, and a celebration.
Often the drunk is looked at like a big joke to be regarded with a laugh.
The dark side is the alcoholism, accidents, violence, and spousal abuse that can accompany drinking.
For me the right approach is to treat drinking seriously and to be responsible drinker.
“…when you give money to a collecter at your door or a fund raiser in shul or a telemarketer calling for an organisation they get at least 30 percent. when a guy comes from israel and uses a car service to get around the driver gets 30 percent so if you give him 100 33 goes to the driver he gets about 33 so only 33 is going to the organisation….”
If this were true, why would anyone give in this fashion? 2/3s of the money intended for a worthy cause is going to the driver, car, and other expenses. Therefore, if someone gave a donation of $1000.00, $666.66 would be going for liquor, driver, car, and collector; $333.33 would be going to the cause. Seems very wasteful, especially knowing how the money is really needed.
asdfghjkl: Thank you for your greeting!
Have a wonderful Purim, and all members as well.