yungerman1 –

Sure. I had to learn that anyway to understand the Rema in 108. My Rosh Chabura was mechaleik between a kirah and a tanur. As you get closer to the top of the kirah it isn’t as hot, and the pot over there is on top of the kirah. The Teshuvas Ri which the Rema refers to by the machavas in 108:1 is also talking about a machavas on top of a kirah. The mechaber in 108:2 who is matir l’chatchilah to cook two open pots together is talking about a tanur. Our ovens are tanurim.

sam4321 –

Thanks for the Mateh Yehonasan. The meforshim I referred to were the Yad Yehudah and others – maybe the Minchas Ya’akov(?).

The Kreisi Upleisi holds that we can be somech on the shitos that a berya is batel in 960. The Aruch Hashulchan says this is k’dai to be somech on b’shaas hadchak. A berya that was nisrach loses it’s chashivus even though it’s whole – this is mevu’ar in the Rema at the beginning of 103. The Pri Chadash holds that this does not apply to ????? ??????? but the Aruch Hashulchan is adamant that it does.

sam4321 –

The nafka minah is te’imas yisroel where applicable. As I noted earlier on this thread, my rav holds that we are never somech on te’imah, which is the same as the shitah of the Levush you are mentioning. This shitah is brought in a Tshuvas haRashba.

yungerman1 –

Exactly. The truth is even together is not a problem l’fi zeh, but my rav paskens l’chatchilah not to when they are not side by side and the bottom is open, because he is choshesh for leakage, based on experience. But for one after another he and my rosh chaburah respectively were very clear that l’chatchilah there is no problem.

Thank you.

yungerman1 –

Ok I’ll look.

sam4321 –

I assumed they were ruling for their time and place. Do you have another answer?

the magen avraham by pesach implies this is not allowed by chometz

See the teshuva I linked above. He brings a teshuvas haRan who discusses this very issue.

Neicha bei means that neicha it tastes better or neicha bey an issur was done?

Bugs in lettuce are problematic even with 60 because of berya.

I know the Shach from the end of 107. But as far as I know (the Aruch Hashulchan and my rav both say) we pasken like the Mechaber and the Rema who argue.

Lunch break! Be back soon. Thank you so much everyone, this is really a great chazarah for me.

Sam2-

Because the mamashus is not nikkar and there is no ta’am. My rosh chaburah brough a Sheilas Ya’avetz who is talking about something else and writes that the ???? left on a kli is not considered mamasho shel issur, but rather it is subject to rules of ta’am.

Jothar –

I do not agree with you. ????? ????? means you asked him to do it, as we pasken in 122 that ?? ????? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ????? ????? ???. And even the Maharshal, who adds the case where you didn’t ask for it, is only machmir where you want it.

Steam Jackets: My fist question is who says it’s a ben yomo? And even if you know that it was, that would only be for the first few batches, why would you not say ??? ???? ???? ?”? on the rov, which would be matir all of the bottles you find in the store?

3 large pieces of steak, 1 is treif, and they are ??”?: If it’s treif because of a bli’a. Also if it’s only a chumra R’ Akiva Eiger says it’s batul.

Purposely diluting milk in water: The Shach from the Toras Chatas is mashma that it’s assur (even though it’s mutar l’chatchila to put it into the meat after the fact). I heard that R’ Akiva Eiger is matir. My rav writes that from the rishonim it’s mevuar that it’s mutar, see here: http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1525&st=&pgnum=274.

About the achbera, I did not know that. Thanks for the info!

Jothar, Yungerman1, Sam2 –

Your friend mixes 1 drop of lard into your kosher canola oil and says it makes it taste better and he did you a favor. Can you use the oil?

I agree with yungerman.

It is not a ???? ?????? ????? as the Taz writes in 88:

???? ?????? ????? ?”? ???? ???? ?”?.

He happens to be talking about treife fat but his point is that ???? ?????? ????? is only something which has a charifus to it. The Aruch Hashulchan says this as well.

ItcheSrulik –

2 examples:

A) Kesubos 9a – ????? ??? ???? ????? – there are two unrelated tzdadim of heter: 1) The bi’ah may have been b’ones, even if they were married at the time, and 2) It may have taken place while they weren’t married, even if it was b’ratzon.

B) Famous Teshuvas Harashba – a lion hanging around a coral, in which you find a sheep with a nail in it’s back – 1) maybe the lion never went in, and 2) maybe the nail came from the sheep scratching itself against the wall, even if the lion came in. Not as good as A) because these aren’t completely unrelated, but rather a buildup of sfeikos. However, since we are forced to consider the possibility that the lion never entered at all – because it absolutely could not have been from the lion had the lion not entered – we look at that safek, and then see another one, that maybe the nail didn’t come from the lion after all. This is the pshat in this kind of sfek sfeika that I have gleaned from my rabbeim, even though admittedly I have not learned siman 110.

Our case is even worse than the Rashba’s case. Not only do we not have two independent sfeikos, the question “is the beer flavored or not” is essentially arbitrary. From the onset we should be asking only one question: Are there any non-kosher ingredients?

The fact that the beer is flavored doesn’t truly bring it closer to being treif. It just makes it easier for you to figure it out. That doesn’t constitute another level of safek.

Popa –

Ahhh I chap! You’re a good ba’al masbir.

If I’m getting the metzius right and it is all one body of beer and the tubing is takeh less than 1/60 of the keg, I agree that it’s considered ???? ?????? ????. Yeish bilah – I wouldn’t say that you are getting the beer that acquired taste when you open the spigot. The only question I have is would you say it’s ???? ?????? ????? ???? ?????

ItcheSrulik –

The only reason you are mesupak if the beer is flavored is because the flavoring might be treif. That’s ?? ???? ?? ???. For that matter you could klerr maybe it was a green bottle and maybe it was a red bottle, and even if it was a red bottle maybe it was kosher anyway, which obviously isn’t a valid sfek sfeika. Get it? I don’t know siman 110 but from my memory of Kesubos 9a I think that’s how it goes.

Popa –

Thanks for keeping me on my toes.

Ok. Firstly, any non-kosher beers are certainly in the mi’ut of beers manufactured and purchased, so I don’t know why you would have to worry about it. Even if you were to look at it as a safek, it is a safek d’rabbanan because we’re only dealing with the ????? ??? ?”?, and I believe we are meikil with this safek d’rabbanan in 122.

Secondly, I am curious. ??? ????? ?????? ???? is mutar according to ?????? ???? ???”? (and my rav paskens this way). What about ??? ????? ?????? ????? ?”?? Perhaps we can make a kal vachomer – mah duch to be mevatel issur l’chatchilah, which the Ra’avad holds is assur mi’doraisa, the Ra’avad himself holds is mutar (see Beis Yosef end of 89 b’shmo) when it vadai won’t come to nesinas ta’am, kol shekein a treife pot which is only assur m’drabbanan lchol hade’os, when it vadai won’t come to an issur (meaning even if you should pick up the wrong kli – which I understand is pshat in the ???? ??? ?”? – you would anyway wait a day) it should be mutar. What do you think of this? Your machine surely falls into this category – I don’t think you would ever shoot boiling hot beer through it.

Jothar –

1) Kitnios is batel b’rov, so it’s not a shailah. But I know what you are getting at, so I’ll tell you what you want to hear – the Shach says we rely on the tasting of a Jew. However my rav holds that we are not somech on tasting at all.

2) A mouse in a cholent pot is nosen ta’am lifgam. If you want to taynah that your cholent is soupy and is a mashkeh, even so, by shar mashkin it’s a machlokes and R’ Akiva Eiger writes (not like the Taz) that we pasken to be meikel except by (liquid) fat.

3) You may not eat them all together, and even one after another, l’chatchilah we are machmir not to eat.

ilovetorah –

That’s a question I can’t pasken for you 😛

Thanks everyone! Keep ’em coming 🙂