RSRH –

You weren’t by any chance being sarcastic there, were you?

yungerman1 – What does that mean? The view of science is part of Torah according to the Rambam. Ma’aseh Bereishis is the natural sciences in his opinion.

The Rambam held that science is Torah.

Toi –

I was referring to math.

OneOfMany –

You mean a principal told you that girls are to stupid? That’s sad. Pretty ignorant too. How would he explain the fact that 60 percent of Bachelor’s Degrees currently go to women? And so on.

As for your question. I don’t want to get involved in the whole debate right now regarding the status of women with regard to studying Torah. But everyone agrees that women do not have the same obligation of Torah study as men, as the Gemara derives their exemption in Kiddushin 29b. If math and science are “like jewelry” for a woman, and you are exempt from learning Torah anyway, then why not learn the math and science? You can learn Torah also, but there is no reason to put so much emphasis on it, as if it needs to be the basis of the entire curriculum. Personally I think that the reason they are teaching girls Nach and all is simply because they got this idea that girls have to learn all day just like guys (which, by the way, I don’t fully agree with either), but they feel that girls shouldn’t learn Gemara, so what will they learn? Nach is the next choice! Which is stupid. Girls don’t need to learn all day. They should be taught Halacha and the basics and if they want to learn more, they should have the option, but otherwise they should be given the opportunity if not the push to grow academically in other subjects such as advanced math and the sciences etc. Anyway I got a bit carried away.

mik5 –

In my limited knowledge of Halacha I have never heard of such a concept.

My haha was to Toi. Heimishe Mom, as Popa said, I think that most guys don’t have that problem, at least once they’ve been through a couple of years in yeshiva.

OneOfMany –

You should tell those men to look at the Yerushalmi in the beginning of Pei’ah:

??? ???? ??? ?’ ????? – ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ????? ??

The Gemara is saying that “Greek Wisdom” (which I assume refers to mathematics, the sciences, etc) is an “article of jewelry” for a woman, and therefore one may have his daughters study it (as opposed to himself, as it can possibly be a question of bitul Torah). Kind of irrelevant if women are to stupid to understand it.

mamashtakah-

???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ????

Better to live in a place of Torah that has no inherent kedusha then in a place of inherent kedusha that has no Torah.

WIY –

He wasn’t talking about the religion, he was talking about why it isn’t in the yeshiva’s curriculum. The yeshiva is a non-profit organization. He was making a joke.

cleverjewishpun –

The explanation I heard was that extensive Old Testament study and analysis is one of the things that led to the Haskalah and the like back in Europe.

This is not a cop out. It’s actually a Rashi in Berachos 28b:

??????? – ?? ??????? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?????

I don’t know why girls should be better though.

OneOfMany –

What’s wrong with calculus?

Mr. Mod – lol 🙂 I guess it’s a small world.

cinderella –

Thanks, and you do make a good point as well. People will always notice something, so it’s very important to make sure that they will notice the meaningful and not the superficial. That is very true.

mik5 –

Some are and some aren’t. The important thing is not to judge those who aren’t, because they certainly have what to rely on.

mik5 –

No.

I am saying that the Arizal, the preeminent authority of Kabbala, did not hold of this law. So even within the Kabbalistic community this law isn’t held of.

mik5 –

I know that they should not be cut in order under any circumstances…

That is a bit strong.

As ‘Dont get me wrong’ pointed out the source is a Rema in OC 260. The Magen Avraham says on the spot that the Arizal would ridicule (??? ?????) the whole concept. Being that this is a matter of Kabbala and the Arizal is arguably the most recognized authority on Kabbala, you can see why there is an argument to be made not to worry about this. The Magen Avraham says it worth being concerned about, even so. The Aruch Hashulchan concludes that “one who cares, cares, and one who doesn’t care, doesn’t care.” Basically do whatever you feel like.

Yankdownunder, Dont get me wrong, Sam2 –

The Aruch Hashulchan writes:

????? ????? ??????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ?? ?? ????, ???? ????? ????? ?????, ????? ???? ?? ????, (?”? ??”?) ??? ????? ????

OneOfMany –

True, but when there may be a possibility that it is legally wrong I can see that it would be a chillul Hashem. In this case, besides for the fact that legally they have no argument, since it is part of their contract it is unfair for the schools. The fact that someone complains doesn’t create a moral imperative to cancel his/her obligations. I can complain too.

zahavasdad –

Most of these drivers don’t even live in Lakewood (that’s how it was when I was growing up, I would imagine more so now). They could have taken a public school route in Jackson or Howell for the same price.

BTGuy –

Lol, the pumpkin pie thing is a joke.

BTGuy –

I do understand that. But why did they have to take a private school route? What are we supposed to do exactly? It isn’t fair to us.

I am not saying that there is this grand scheme to manipulate our feelings. I’m not such a conspiracist. However, I do think that on some level this is the – perhaps unconscious – motive of all people who complain about not getting something they do not deserve.

One more thing. How can people say it’s a chillul Hashem when it is part of their contract? There is no manipulating on our part. We are not doing anything wrong. I am fully aware that there are some angry feelings directed at us but angry feelings do not equal chillul Hashem. They may equal guilty conscience. But not chillul Hashem.

gefen –

Just ignore him, nothing will be gained from going back and forth like this. And btw you are well known here enough that no one would mistake you for a troll.

Nope. Whether or not they work will have no effect on my life. Actually, I’d rather they not work. Lack of bus traffic is always a relief.

I’m just a very opinionated fellow.

I agree. Unless the terms of my job stipulate that I have off those days.

I agree with essy8 that the comment to GumBall was not nice.

GumBall, you might be a kid, but things can be just as hard for you as for grown-ups. Don’t listen to these grumps.

Lomed Mkol Adam –

Haven’t seen you around in a while. Welcome back!

http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/atlanta-frum-jewish-community

🙂

moishy –

It means to post a comment just for the sake of bumping the thread back up the list of “Latest Discussions.” Usually a person will just type in “bump” and post it.

Tell him it’s a cultural thing. What connects us is a common adherence to the same rules and practices. Beyond that it’s simply a cultural thing, if you come from one community you’ll dress one way and if you come from another you’ll dress differently.