Yiskay

Teen, please try and honestly answer the few questions at the end of my previous post to you. take the time to re read the “ideal life scenerio and answer those questions. you will see your situation from another perspective givving you more clarity to see what you really want deep down and if it’s not perhaps not the same thing that they want for you but there is other bagage in the way.

You asked me”but dont you think that if it is just pushing me further off that it is smarter for them to kind of let go?” nobody can push you further away just as nobody can pull you closer. You can go in anyway that you wan’t you have choice – Bechira that is the way G-d created us for reasons that I will not go into now. Your parents can influence you one way or another and if they are succesfull at influencing you in a positive manner you will make the decisin and shoose to let them influence you or you will choose to not let them influence you. On the other hand if you really would look into yourself , forget your parents. what if they wher not in the picture if they would chas vesholom be in an accident or something. What do you really want for yourself. remember at the end it’s you and g-d and you have the choice to choose life. I think you will be just fine,

cantoresq, I would love to invite you to the post topic Customer Service in frum businesses that I created today in recognizing that the points of the lack of costomer service of many and the lack of menchlichkeit of few beg to be addressed in a way that we, you and I, that consider ourselves in the know of how to interact with the outside world. I say that because I relate to your wifes interaction with the cashier as I mainly get positive feedback when I or my wife encounter “hamoin am’. Never the less I would love to see this post continue in a positive light as the contents of the idea is deeper than meets a fast glance. read it slowly in honestly. We now have two incidents that you have related. Using these two incidents to knock down a concept that we despertely need is not justified.

We cannot let the actions of few cast a shaddow oover many. Rather let you & I shine through onto others. The light will prevail.

I can not know what you do for a livng nor do I know your religious affiliation, but there are two things I can tell you. One, that our fellow yidin accross all spectrums are suffering greatly in this economic crises and the tzidaka orginizations across all spectrums of our society are running dry and this has created a visious cycle of people falling to levels of hardship that they cannot bare. When orginazatoins like Tomchei Shabbos for example have in the past steped up to the plate for needy families. Today they report that the nature of the needy have grown to include your neighbors,freinds & relatives as well as mine, that we once considered well off.

It is unfortunate that that the we are learning how to cope with new realities & one of these realities is that a)people have taken such great financial hits that they cannot give tzidaka as they used to and B) those that perhaps are still blessed with wealth find the burden enormous to carry alone.

With that in mind I embraced the idea the author proposed. Although we might not have to give, we are all consumers and can help in that way. It goes around a verry long way/ As I said on another post. why let the yetzer hora stop us from doing this because some bad behavior on the part of some. Rather let us embrace the yetzer tov and walk into en establishment, tell you freinds, tell your relatives & tell your children what you have embraced. Tell the business owners, with a smile why it is that you are shopping there. You will be suprised at the power you have to influence many. Let alone the spiritual merits that are created and act to protect us all as a nation.

I wish you all the best regardless of your position, but I would love if you would try & overcome that negitive cycle that is so a part of socicety at large.

good luck!

SJSinNYC, as a provider for a large family,I can relate well to your comment”I need to first worry about my family”, however I believe that the writer was making an effort to do precisely that, Worrying about the family.

You raised a very good point “If I shop at the Jewish-owned store purely because he is Jewish, can I use maaser money on the difference? After all, me shopping there is PURELY for charity reasons.” I am not a rov but I would dare to guess that you might find that you can do just that if you would ask your Rov. But the other point that you are shopping there “Purely for charity reasons” take a pen and paper and workout the numbers of what a deed like that is worth towards the taking came of our family. You might be surprised at the bargain your getting, especially if you make it a point of telling the kids what you are doing, it’s valueless.

As the author eloquently stated ” At a time that we are seeing so much suffering, let us be Mikabel this wonderful concept and as Mitzva Goreres Mitzva (one Mitzva brings another Mitzvah) we will create an abundance of much needed zchusim for Klal Yisroel.”

what is the value of a collective zchus that is done with the goal of helping Hashems nation?

I for one am In!

Teen, my holy brother,

I couldn’t agree with you more.

your not supposed to give mussar when you know that the person will not listen to you

perhaps it should also apply (depending on circumstance)to parents who keep trying to make their children as religious as they are but the kid repeatedly shows that he is not interested.

You are probebly correct in your assessment that that parents actually push their kids further off by trying to “push their beliefs on them”.

Regarding the rights parents have when towards children who might have different beliefs, that would probably depend on the particular belief system of eatch individual. You see, rights are very intertwined with belief. Their are different rights that exist for instance legal rights, human rights, moral rights to name a few but besides for legal rights all other rights are determined by your particular belief system. If as I understand, your parents are religious jews their idea of rights are determined by their belief in the Torah & the Torah defines the rights of Jews.

So if you ask w”hy do they have the right to try to make me believe what they believe…they dont believe what i beleive do they? why cant i make them believe what i beleive? shouldnt everyone be allowed to believe what they want just as much as my parents can believe in judiasm? ” the answer is perhaps they have the right according to their belief system but perhaps according to your belief system they do not. It gets tricky with parents particularly at 17, legally they have the right to “try to make you believe what they believe” Morally they have the right to try and make you believe what they believe.

I actually noticed in your response to tzipi that you ” actually do believe in judiasm very strongly” it’s just that your “just not interested in doing it…laziness i guess”

well as a parent myself I know that it is not only a right but rather an obligation for me as a parent to help my children with their beliefs and not let their laziness or other shortcomings destroy their future. Parents will be the ones to blame should you grow up and get a clearer outlook on your heritage. You will be the firs to stand up & say Dad,Mom where were you when I was faltering,how did you allow me to be taken in by my laziness and shortcomings in not following what I believed and now know even stronger that I was young and foolish to through it away. As a parent I would dread to have my child make these accusations against me, far more than I would their veering from my beliefs after I did everything in my power to guide them.

Lets put aside religion & stuff for a moment.

Picture choosing your ideal life, however you want to live it. I would assume, no matter the lifestyle you choose you have the human need to be successful in your life.

You may pursue a career by attending university or reach your successes on your good graces. In any case as the years go in your ideal life. You will probably get married and build a family as the majority of Americans do. Now picture yourself in your ideal home in your ideal neighborhood with your child or children attending the ideal schools along with the other kids in your ideal community. Now as you climbed the ladder of success you also developed strong beliefs and are very aware of your rights and the rights of society according to your beliefs. Naturally you most of your intimate friends and acquaintances have common beliefs and ideas. It is in this ideal life of yours that you and your spouse are raising your children. In your love for your children you and your wife agree to do everything to give your children the ideal life that you have achieved so they to can experience the rewards & fulfillment of the ideal life.

In order to assure your children’s success,you exert all sorts of efforts to see that they have as easy a time as possible in reaching the ideal life. Now remember besides for your kids success being part of your “ideal life’ you want them to have the best life they can possibly have for their own sake.

Nice picture, right? Now, one nice summer in ideal land, perhaps you and your loved one are having the ideal vacation. You receive a call from your child and as you both pick up a phone line so you can tell your child how much you love & miss him, he says … you know Dad & Mom, I have been doing a lot of thinking and I have come to the conclusion that your beliefs are not mine. I am not sure if it’s that I don’t believe in your “ideal life belief” totally. I actuality greatly believe in it and admire many things about it.. maybe it’s just that I am lazy or it’s to hard. In any case I would like you to kind of leave me be I won’t be doing anything drastic drugs, or even smoking etc. you wont have to bail me out of prison. But I just kinda will do my own thing and decide on my own what I will & won’t do. I do love you both and you really gave me a great life taking care of all my needs from when I was a baby and all you have done for me in so many different ways & I thank you for that… , but now I’m the ones that will make the rules as far as I’m concerned around here. I just wanted you both to know this before you come home so when you get back you won’t be taken aback buy my “new look” and some new friends I hang with. If you see some unfamiliar food in the fridge, don’t through it out it’s mine, & don’t set the table for me on your ideal dinner night as I’ll be out. Oh I almost forgot don’t send tuition checks to the ideal school, I am dropping out. Also the neighbors kind of look at me like I’m below them or something you know not “ideal”. Just tell them bout my decision when you get back. Thanks-a-lot and I Luv Ya!

Ok Teen your the Dad,… how do you feel now? … how do you console your hysterical wife? what do you say to your friends and neighbors when you get back?… how do you respond to this call?… and what rights do you have?

Remember two things

G-d Loves you & what goes around comes around.

Hope you enjoyed the ride.

You’ll be great!I mean it!

To my fellow Coffee Room contemporaries,

I beg your indulgence for the time it takes to read my post.

I am not posting to comment on the above post per se, In that regard I believe that

The reason I feel compelled to post is because a am struck by the enormous power,that reply comments have,in defining which of the inclinations will prevail,in the outcome of a good post,or for that matter a good speech,article or schmooze that we might come across.

A Yid takes the time to bring out an important observation, on behalf of Klal Yisroel, by sending YW an e-mail. YW posts the e-mail and now is where you my fellow Coffee Room contemporaries take the reins and ride. In just four reply post we are at 50/50 in influencing weather this concept will take off and soar or falter and die Chas Vesholom.

Unless a poster beats me to it, my post will increase the odds of a successful launch.

My goal is that we take a honest look at the positivity in the above post and expound on that with our positive insights. Yes,negative traits and evil exist amongst us, but each and everyone of us holds tremendous actual power to literally influence myriad others by just influencing ourselves.

Let me sign off by inviting all who read this thread to join “mi keamcha yisroel”

in at least keeping the idea portrayed above by the thoughtful individual who sent this e-mail, in the positive light it deserves.