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Wow, with what I am seeing here, the question isn’t how MO schools are endangering the Jewish future, it is how anyone would want to identify and practice as a Jew if it meant acquiescing to the sinas chinom that passes for commentary here.
When someone like Aurora77 who has told us she has recently begun her derech towards Torah observance has a clearer, kinder, and more constructive perspective here than people who have sat in Kolel for years, there’s something missing in what the Kolels are teaching.
When someone life Feif Un, who is a shomer torah umitzvos and Yoreh Shomayim who I greatly admire, is so disgusted that he must leave this place, there’s something missing in the neshomos of some of the viler posters here.
I’ve done my online hishtadlus against the worst anti-Semites, anti-Israel, and J for J missionary types – for more than a decade. I’ve tusseled with people who would slit my throat (and all of yours) if they weren’t half a world away in a Karachi medrassa. So I’m neither impressed, nor intimidated, nor easily disgusted.
Hey, MO bashers – you’re Junior Varsity. Compared to what I’ve encountered you are bush league, and anyone who uses the intellect and bechiro chofshis HKBH gave us all can and does see through your veil of purity and probity to your simple desire that all who don’t look, think, act, daven, learn, and talk like you should vanish in the interests of kedusha and the future of your daled amos.
Am Yisroel is more than your daled amos.
OOM, if memory serves, the mithril armor was bestowed after the wounding with the morgul blade.
Naysberg, As you could probably tell from my post, I am of the belief that our nationhood has been neglected for far too long. For a long time, that neglect was borne of necessity, because it is hard to express nationhood and sovereignty when you are in terrible physical and spiritual golus, whereas personal religious observance and emunoh can strengthen one even in the worst of times. Now, though, that we have, with the help and blessing of HKBH, a capacity to end the physical golus, and the harbotzas Torah of these generations brings us closer to ending our spiritual golus, we have a responsibility to restore the meaning and practice of nationhood to our identity as God fearing Jews.
A long way of saying that I agree with you.
Sam2, Naysberg is right. HKBH defined us as mamleches kohanim vegoy kodosh – both mamlocho and goy denote nationhood. If anything the secular Zionists took this piece of Jewish identity and made it out to be the whole thing – but 1800 years of exile did the opposite which isn’t good in isolation either – taking nationhood and national responsibility out of the definition of Judaism, and making it for all intents and purposes “only” a religious identity. It is both, and that is what makes Am Yisroel different than all other nations. Being a Jewish nation demands an attachment to the Jewish land; demands Jewish sovereignty; demands adherence to Torah; demands ahavas yisroel; demands yiras shomayim. Any one of these is a good thing, but without all of them, the Jewish nation is incomplete.
As I posted last year, Don’t know other people’s reason, but it’s minhag mishpachas Rashi not to eat in the sukkah on Shmini Atzeres. That trickles down to a whole lot of chasiddishe yichusim and many others as well. And I’ve found in my genealogical research that the minhag is so persistent that even some related families that have not been frum for generations are aware of this. In any case, We just make kiddush.
Mexipal, I disagree with nearly every single thing that ready now has had to say on this topic, but on one thing I agree. The “new testament” is not a piece of literature for Jews to read. period. The only circumstances in which it could possibly be read is by countermissionaries so as to know how to fight the pernicious campaigns of those trying to convert Jews.
As to your assertion that parts were written in hebrew – almost certainly not true, as even if it wasn’t written in greek or aramaic in its entirety, there isn’t a single extant complete version of it prior to 325 CE, so you wouldn’t be able to prove it. Every element of it was redacted by the Pauline church, and all of it was turned to the purpose of differentiating from, vilifying, and demonizing the Jews. It is full of falsehoods and internal contradictions, and even its grammar in its original greek is bad.
Most importantly, half of it was written in the name of and all influenced by a man whose mission in life was to lie and kill and demonize Jews. Paul was an evil man, and that book is his legacy.
One of the clearest ideas on the meaning of the sukkah that I have learned is the concept that for these 7 days we recognize the fragility of our existence, and the dependence we have on the almighty for protection and sustenance. The sukkah is transient, temporary, and not “strong”. We put ourselves at the mercy of the elements and demonstrate our reliance on Hashem.
Hmm. I’m a child of 2 brothers/2 sisters marriages. AND I’m a descendant of R’Yehuda Hachosid (Through the Taz), and the issue was never a concern – in a family that is very aware of minhogim.
Haifagirl LOL.
Look, there is violence – from which we can learn lessons about right and wrong – in Tanach too – read sefer Shoftim. There are themes we find in good secular literature that come straight out of our tradition, like the request by leaders of the shvatim to establish a king, and Shmuel Hanavi’s response, which inform every work of political fiction since.
The themes we look for in secular literature – that which is worth reading – are ones our Torah perspective can identify with. The skill with which the English language is used by good writers, the methods used to illustrate the idea, illuminate the plot and captivate the reader are some of the ways these works can be judged.
One may look at the works of JRR Tolkien and see fantastical imaginary beings and worlds, but his mastery of the English language was incredible, and there is much to be learned about using it from his works.
One could look at the writings of George Orwell and see political allegory that has little to do with our day to day lives, but read his POLITICS AND THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE and you will learn more about how to write and how to avoid being ensnared by clever marketing and doublespeak than you will anywhere else.
Finally, unless we completely shut ourselves off in ghettos of our own making, we do engage with the world on some level, be it through work or otherwise. It behooves us to at least have some sense of the cultural underpinnings and foundations of language of the countries we inhabit.
iced
Bernie Madoff better than Raoul Wallenberg?
Levi Aron better than Johann Reuchlin?
Achan Ben Carmi better than Rachav?
Seriously?
Iced, you wrote “…please don’t be embarrassed to recognize that Yidden are far better than goyim.”
Jews have more responsibilities than goyim and therefore have more potential for zchuyos if we fulfill them. Jews have a special and specific tafkid in the world that goyim don’t have. Jews have the benefit of Torah – but also have the responsibility to fill the world with its light. Jews have had the crucible of persecution and exile to clarify and purify us in a way the goyim will not have.
So if in that respect you mean better, you are right, but better describes it less accurately than chosen.
But if you mean it simply by virtue of being a Goldstein, Levine, or Nussbaum, and that a Jew who tarnishes his mesorah by being a thief or an abuser or a criminal is any “better” than a non Jew – especially a non Jew who lives a good and moral life, you would seem to me to be hopelessly deluded and unjustifiably chauvinistic.
ROB, I concede that the Plantagenets (Angevins, actually, at the time, I didn’t make the appropriate distinction) ruled in Anjou, somewhat to the west- southwest of Troyes.
I only mentioned that he lived in the Rhineland. I’ve read opinions that Rashi lived in Trier, not Troyes, and Trier had a significant Jewish population at the time. Either way, even if I am wrong, Champagne and the Palatinate are geographically very close. they are both North of the Latitude of Switzerland, which puts them in Northern Europe as I wrote. Rhineland traffic and Ardennes traffic flowed along the rivers, generally north to the North Sea. But as an exporter, (wine was one of the principle elements of trade at the time) Rashi would have encountered many people and words that were uncommon. Also, there is a mesorah in my family that Rashi’s 3rd daughter married someone from Iberia (Spain), so he would have had at least some give and take with the area.
Haleivi, as I am sure you know, the baalei tosafos lived in many different places, including Languedoc, right next to the Iberian peninsula. They also lived in the generations following Rashi. Rashi lived in the Rhineland in northern Europe. What was perhaps familiar to them would not necessarily have been available to him. It is no discredit to Rashi – and in fact, to this day food is often named in descriptive terms that are not precise. A simple example from the present day is Israeli couscous, which is not actually couscous, but rather a very small pellet of pasta made from semolina flour. Yet it has become known as Israeli couscous all over the world. another, older example is the word Maize, which comes from Taino via Spanish and means American corn, but is applied to other grains which are not quite the same. It is and has been common practice for a long time to name foods this way.
Read my post above. There was likely not a language known as “Spanish” at the time, so it would have been impossible to know it.
A diagnosis of Aspergers is a challenging one to make, and it requires an expert or more than one.. But it is not a “black mark” by any means, unless it is so severe to the point of autism-like symptoms (Aspergers is identified as an Autism spectrum disorder, but it doesn’t usually manifest in the same way)
Also, Aspergers is very often associated with high or very high intelligence, so stigma associated with it is a big ??? to me. The diagnosis is made as a function of evidence.
In the case of Aspergers, there is a distinct lack of socialization and obliviousness to social cues that will have been there before any diagnosis, as is the exclusionary focus of interest onto one thing or idea. Social stigma follows from the behavior more than from a rumored diagnosis of what is often a high function disorder.
Aspergers does, however, often have associations with other diagnoses for other issues, co-morbid with it, variously ADHD, Depression, OCD, and other psychological challenges. Maybe this is what was circulated.
I write this as the parent of a child diagnosed several years ago with Aspergers. Though my child certainly has had to overcome challenges in socialization, my child is Baruch Hashem healthy, doing extremely well in school, and has begun to develop relationships and friendships, and figured out workarounds to social cues utilizing intelligence rather than the more common intuition.
Rumor is a horrible thing in a school no matter what it is about, but as far as Aspergers is concerned, people like Lincoln, Einstein, Alexander Graham Bell, Newton, Jefferson, and Edison all displayed symptoms and were likely affected by the disorder, so the person affected is in good company.
Rashi was actually quite an accomplished linguist. He lived in a border area often in dispute between Champagne, Burgundy, their duchies, and nearby German principalities. Many languages were spoken in France at the time. He traded in Wine, so he would have had to converse with both suppliers and consumers, who necessarily came from all over what is now France (some of which was ruled by the English Plantagenets in Rashis time) and beyond so he had to know these languages. He demonstrates acute facility with what we call “old French” in his hundreds of renderings of explanations “bla’z” belashon am zu.
When discussing Spain, most of the Jewish population lived in the Northeast of the country, and the language in that area was Catalan, which is still in use today. There were also many Basque speakers in the area of the Pyrenees, where many Jews lived. There were several muslim principalities, as well as Castile, Leon, Andalusia, Galicia (yes, in Spain) and others, all with their own dialects and languages – there was no “Spanish” to know in the 11th/12th century CE. Aroz, Arus, Riz, Rice, all essentially come from the same root, which is the same root in Hebrew, Arabic, Latin, Greek, Italian, French, Spanish, German, Russian, and many other languages. In fact linguists think the root of the word for all of these languages was Tamil, as Rice was first cultivated in the Indian subcontinent.
It is very likely that Rashi’s unclear description may have come from the simple fact that rice cultivation wasn’t introduced into France until over 300 years after Rashi was nifter, though it did make its way to Southern Iberia and Sicily around the time of his life.
pba – lol
And then there are those who try to find a pshara between their rational understanding and their subjective belief; And there are many who have emunah pshuta but less confidence in the most recent iterations and interpretations of the mesorah.
avhaben – aside from the fact that in botei kvaros across Europe Rabonnim are buried with wives and daughters above below or beside them, If you have any knowledge of burial practices in eretz yisroel before and after the churban bayis sheini, you would know that families buried their meisim in ossuaries for a few years, then reinterred the bones. These were buried in family tombs, of which there are dozens around yerushalayim, especially in the areas of sanhedriya and talpiyot. families were buried together.
At some point in the last 200 years a determination was made in some communities that it was appropriate to bury men and women separately if the space was available, but there is an abundance of physical evidence all over Europe that there is no halachic necessity to do so.
avhaben, I guess that applies to Sara Shenirer, yes?
besalel, yes and though I am probably being uncharitable, Like Degel Hatorah which initially encouraged Shas in Israel, possibly they feel sefardim do belong in their vision, but they should look and act like ashkenazim.
Sam2 – Many families, and perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands of Jews are descended from Rashi, but not everyone in klal Yisroel. None of them is ben achar ben, because he had 3 daughters. I am descended from two of them, Miriam and Yocheved, through a number of lines.
For some more insight into Rashi and Rabbinic lineages I suggest you take a look at the works of Dr. Neil Rosenstein, Rabbi Meir Wunder, and Arthur Kurzweil, among many others.
Rav Meir Katzenellenbogen the Maharam Padvi was the first of the name, having been born in Katzenellenbogen in the late 15th century CE, studied in Prague, and lived in Padua where he married the daughter of Rav Avrohom Mintz. He was a cousin of the Ramo, and a great Torah scholar in his own right. He has many descendants today, among a number of families of rabbinic ancestry, including my own.
The family is descended as well from Rashi, and thus from Dovid Hamelech, which might answer the first question, and put the name among other families such as Shapira, Treivish, Loew, Landau, Frankel, Wahl, and many others who share the ancestry.
Aurora, I sort of agree with golfer – SY Agnon was a great author, but even though he did use many torah sources in his works of fiction (for which he won a Nobel prize), He was not writing as an explainer or strengthener or teacher of Jewish practice or philosophy, and did not purport to be an authority on Jewish customs.
I also have a lot of admiration for your journey, and I do think you should explore what particular approach to Torah Judaism works for you. Agnon might be an interesting sidebar or illustration of Jewish life and tradition, but he was primarily a writer of fiction.
By worldly, I mean dealing with the halachic ramifications of everyday things like farming, relationships, property; I mean giving guidance to the lives of the majority of Jews who didn’t live in cities, and didn’t have wealth.
The Tzedukim were most concerned (Jewishly) about their prerogatives in and around the bais hamikdosh, and about their state of purity.
Imagine that. And I console myself knowing that the practical and worldly perushim won out over the elitism and fundamentalism (in the most accurate sense of the word) of the tzedukim.
You were talking about mitzvah habah meavaeira. I was refuting your flawed assertion. I wasn’t arguing a comparison with this kid, and, as you would have seen had you properly read my earlier posts, though I think on balance Edon did positive things in this whole endeavor, I was uncomfortable with the song he chose for his last performance.
On a purely literal level, you can read the parsha about Tamar. Literally. Then complain.
WIY, there’s a reason Sefer Enosh wasn’t included in Tanach, and why the edus avrohom wasn’t either. And discussions of Azael and others are not based in sources in Torah Shebichsav. Rambam rejects the notion that Azael was anything other than symbolism, though Ramban considered him a demon. I defer to Rambam on this, and I’m not interested in discussing demonology on yeshivaworld. there are plenty of forums elsewhere for those so inclined.
WIY, see Yehuda and Tamar. Our malchus beis dovid and our entire hope for the geula came from such beginnings.
1. There is no power in the universe independent of Hashem’s will. Any shitah that says otherwise is indeed kefirah, or avodah zarah, or whatever you want to call it. I don’t care who says it, its not Yiddishkeit.
2. The only entities that are imbued with bechirah chofshis, as far as I know, are us, human beings. Of course, that is as far as I know. HKBH can do what he wants, and give it to something else, and he doesn’t have to send us an email to let us know.
3. Describing something as “Maaseh” Soton is ascribing creative powers to something that doesn’t have independent capacity to create. Putting aside for a minute whether that is kefira, or avodah zarah, or a twisted Jewish version of gnostic dualism, it simply defies logic.
He’s very involved with his local branch of the organization I work for, and I have no doubt he will continue to use his talents as he has in the past for the good of am yisroel. Expect it to involve more singing.
WIY, you know nothing, nothing about this kid’s family or his life. I do.
To say he is headed otd is removed from reality. This kid, even at the age of 12, was helping raise awareness and funds – on an international level – for one of the largest kiruv organizations in the world. He’s probably done more to bring more Jews closer to yiddishkeit and frumkeit(before this show) than you might do in your entire life.
I wrote my previous response as my opinion, not asking you to agree with me, or trying to convince you I am right.
My life doesn’t revolve around telling others how to think.
Enjoy your self righteousness.
I’ll probably surprise some of you, but I was a bit uncomfortable with the performance last night. Up until now, his obvious menschlichkeit was on full view and that was a kiddush hashem, and the songs he was singing weren’t of the love and beauty kind of theme, but were more neutral and altogether positive. So for those who don’t see television and competition as traifus, he was doing alright. But last night the song he chose (while he sung it well, from what I could see on youtube) was not so wholesome. For me it isn’t a chilul hashem, but its not quite as wholesome as it has been.
Please recall that there are distinct epochs we are told about (with little enough detail to make it all mysterious) in the future.
There is Yemos Hamoshiach, which we are arguably already in the first stages of, at least according to R’ Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and many others.
There is the idea of Ketz Hayomim, the end of days, the conclusion of history, the fulfillment of the role of Am Yisroel in creation,
There is the idea of tchiyas hameisim, the resurrection of the dead, which would happen around the time of ketz hayomim,
And then there is the often confused concept of Olom Haboh, which in normative use refers to the reward a neshama gets after its temporal life is ended, but which has sometimes been conflated with some of the elements of our “end times”.
The truth is that we know little enough and the only certainty we have of any of the details of it is in our bitochon.
Health and Puhlease have it right, at least to the extent that even if one or the other of the husband or wife have issues, be they otd, emotional, verbal or physical abuse, The community can and does act in a “circle the wagons” and white blood cell-like expulsion or ostracism of the unwanted.
Aurora, though no one would expect you to take a giant leap and begin observing all of the mitzvot at once, I don’t think anyone here would give a stamp of approval to someone Jewish driving on shabbat. Of course, many people who are on the path towards observance do so, but it is the “right” thing for an Orthodox Jew who is helping to offer a place to stay for shabbat or to be after shul for someone who has or will contemplae driving.
There are probably a number of individuals and families in the nearest Orthodox community who would be pleased to have a shabbat guest who is increasing their observance stay over at their house. This is familiar territory for those who are involved in kiruv (bringing our brothers and sisters closer to their Jewish heritage).
You will probably find that there are many people who are happy to help.
This applies if
aurora, many of those who post here have had multiple layer of Jewish education, from elementary to high school, learning Torah, Talmud, Jewish law and lore. Many of them have also spent one, two, or many more years studying Talmud or Jewish law in post secondary rabbinic schools and programs. Many of the women have spent a year or two post high school at seminaries. Beyond that, it is normative among many of those who post here to engage in Torah and Talmud study every day, even if only for a short time.
There are also several posters with extensive secular education and academic experience.
As with any venue of discussion, you will find open minded people and closed minded people.
I find that with a few exceptions, even those I disagree with here usually have something to teach me.
vochindik – what a meaningful response to someone who seems to have been pushed away by her family and community.
When I learn about what the Torah permits me and any other Jew to do, Name calling those who don’t observe mitzvos after having been abused and then rejected by frum society is pretty much at the bottom of any list I could imagine. I guess you and I have different priorities.
One of the most disgusting things I encounter in our frum and chareidi circles is the insistence, the visceral need to put down “the other” – be it a non frum Jew, a gentile, or someone who holds a less machmir shita – as part of one’s “frum” identity.
That is not what frumkeit is about, that is not what menschlichkeit is about, and it demeans the individual who does it as much as the one who it is aimed at.
A couple of clarifications. YYTZ, yes, sorry my phrasing was confusing.
And Shmoel is right. If it is provable beyond question that your maternal grandmother and her mother were Jewish, then your mother was Jewish, which makes you 100% Jewish. But I would not want to presuppose the response of a rabbi or beis din you consult with, who will scrutinize the evidence regarding your status, and who may, MAY, require a giur lechumrah.
I’ve got little time for Rabbi Boteach. Not a fan. Not sure where he falls on the spectrum, if anywhere. If self promotion was a religion, he would be in line to be the chief rabbi, or pope.
I’m sure that he does some good things. I am sure that he is a knowledgeable man. I am sure he is intelligent. I don’t think any of that makes up for what is glaringly, obviously not so good.
But, yesh din, v’yesh dayon. Denizens of the CR, you ain’t him.
I congratulate you for working up to ask for help in this. I do a lot of genealogical research on my family, so I know how exciting it is to find something that is surprising – in this case, perhaps life changing.
My first suggestion is that you contact your local orthodox rabbi or local orthodox beit din (rabbinical court). There are Rabbis who can help guide you through the process.
My second suggestion is to write down everything you can remember about your family’s heritage, and collect whatever documentary evidence you have. Speak to older relatives if you have any of advanced age from your mother’s side to develop more information.
You may want to also research online to find community records, relatives, etc. I would suggest (mods, please allow) jewishgen.org as somewhere to begin that side of the research.
My third suggestion is that you consider very carefully what identifying yourself as a Jew will mean to you. As you must know if you have been reading here for a year, there are a multiplicity of opinions and perspectives in the orthodox world. But there is one thing all agree upon, and that is that where there is a question of Jewishness and a conversion pro forma (known as giyur lechumra) is required, as with any conversion, a sincere, wholehearted, and devoted lifelong commitment to the observance of mitzvos in an orthodox manner is a requirement, the abandonment of which will invalidate the conversion.
Finally, you seem to be able to find Jewish resources on the internet, so I won’t belabor you with suggestions. There are many sites to learn from, but nothing online will compare with building a relationship with an orthodox Jewish family or community where you live.
I wish you much hatzlacha (success) in your journey.
ROB, a couple of things. One, I am not part of the oilem that sweeps molestation under the carpet. The mindset of keeping these things and other transgressions quiet – for various reasons – is one of the most poisonous dangers facing frum communities today.
What I shared was my personal challenge with appreciating R’ Shlomo’s greatness while recognizing what I believe to have been his grave challenges. I did not ask or tell anyone to agree with me. I am not bringing anything unknown, and I am not doing anything other than expressing my own perspective.
We have been on the same side of too many arguments in the CR where we have been told what and how to think by too many participants for me to believe that you are telling me I can’t have my own opinion even if it is at variance with yours.
I have, B’H, in my life had the opportunity to know and interact with many great men and women, Rabonim and gedolim like the Lubavitcher Rebbe zt’l and the Bobover Rebbe z’tl, R’ Noach Weinberg zt’l, Prime Ministers and Presidents like Rabin, Peres, Bibi, Olmert and Sharon, 4 Canadian Prime Ministers, cabinet ministers, numerous Generals, one US President, and dozens more inspiring leaders. I have rarely encountered a leader and influencer who is so close to perfect that they do not have a challenge, or a mis step or mis speak. For some, the challenges are almost inconsequential compared to their gadlus or their accomplishments. For others, the challenges are larger, and they call into question the legitimacy of the individual’s capacity to inspire.
As I said, I don’t know where exactly R’Shlomo is on that continuum, but I am convinced by what I have learned (He lived in my city for a while, his daughters were born and went to school here) that there is – for me – what to be concerned about.
As a baal tfilaoh, I love to use R’ Shlomo’s nigunim. They are indeed on a spiritual level of their own.
I also recognize that he was a man who loved his fellow Jew perhaps more deeply and more sincerely than almost anyone in his generation, and in that he was an example for us all.
As to his general “touchy feely” approach to men and women, it seems on the face of it poshut that it wasn’t done in a halachic manner, but he had his own justifications, acceptable or not.
However.
The testimony and evidence of his behavior, especially with young women, especially when they were vulnerable, seems straightforward and overwhelming and is available for anyone to research. I am sure there are many, many people out there who did more and worse and with violence to vulnerable people; but that doesn’t excuse his behavior, especially as a musmach and a putative role model.
It is a real challenge for us, determining the line between a character flaw and a dangerous compulsion.
Shraga, you are partly right. I guess I shouldn’t tell others what strictures to put on themselves. So if someone wants to ignore the Jews they pass on shabbos that do not meet certain criteria, I can’t tell them they have to.
BUT
Do not for a minute think that such a choice of chumra is normative practice or demanded by halocho, or that someone who does not follow your chumra is transgressing. That would be pure unadulterated zealotry, to no useful purpose.
2scents, see above.
Nisht, I don’t think I have. Newsflash. There is no regular frum, moderate frum, frum, ultra frum. Sorry to use such strong language, but I think that is all garbage, intended to put up walls between Jews when we are directed to extend a hand. Frum is frum, and it isn’t a narrow thing, it means observance of halocho, granted with different interpretations. I reject the divisions you imply utterly.
I know personally dozens of graduates of Ner Yisroel who identify hashkafically in way similar to R’ Lipman, and who are part and parcel of the yeshivish community. He has not divorced himself from his Alma Mater any more than they have.
His words in the article, If I read it correctly, were not directed at the Chardal. Not at anyone in Eretz Yisroel, actually. They were directed at kids who feel alienated, disenfranchised and uninspired by the institutions they learn in and by the methods that are being used to teach them. I don’t know if he is right. My point was not to reject him out of hand because you identify more with the people he and his community are being besieged by in Beit Shemesh.
Lastly, you and I have different understandings of the words “political activist”. Where I come from, that means someone, anyone, who steps beyond the usual voter apathy, who takes an issue of importance to his community or constituency, and uses the means, ways, and tools available to advocate for his constituency on that issue. It may mean raising money for a politician who he agrees with, it may mean using the media to put forward a message, it may mean going door to door before an election to get out the vote. It may mean identifying with a new party that he and his community feel will represent them well. All of these are political activism. None of these is against Torah. Frum Jews from Satmer to Bnei Akiva do it all the time. And the manhigim of the frum parties in the Knesset did and do it too, to pursue goals they saw as important as R’ Lipman sees his.
The differences you are trying to paint are entirely artificial.
Rabbi Lipman is n part of a frum community that has been there for decades. He is questioning the incredibly bad and potentially corrupt planning and service delivery departments of the Iriyah, which have for years promised and clearly indicated the city’s responsibility to build more shuls and more frum schools (very anti frum, that) to serve the existing frum community, before they expand on those “promised” lands for more housing. He is questioning the flagrant abuse of the law by those (apparently the only ones who you consider frum) who are stoning women in their cars in B’S, spitting on 8 year old girls and calling them pritzas, and who are attempting to impose their standards on a community that already has its own standards and rabonim. He is questioning the fact that the Iriyah and the mayor seem to be in the pockets of these heilige serial abusers of the frum public.
If the net result of that justified advocacy is blocking housing, then I guess he is guilty as charged.
Though both are, indeed, correct, the ratio of usage of learned vs. learnt in American published works in the last 200 years, is more than 8 to 1 (using Ngram from google books).
Only one thing to say.
Seriously?
I grew up in the Agudas Yisroel shul in my city. Most of the founders of the shul were survivors – Mostly Galitzianer, but also some litvaks, Hungarians, and a smattering of different chasidim from across Europe. These were musmachim and balabatim who were educated in the finest yeshivos in Europe.
They all, each and every one of them, said good shabbos or gut yomtov to every Jew they passed, man or woman. Always. Every opportunity.
That is also how it was done in Krakow, where my father, grandfather, and generations earlier came from.
That is the mesorah I have. And I have a pretty strong Mesorah in my family.
So if you want to discard menschlichkeit and call “good shabbos” pritzus, you aren’t being a Pinchas, you are being foolish.
Englishman, if you are going to translate Rashi, do it properly, don’t cut and paste a transliteration that is not precise, and is intended to be oblique. You will end up mistaking cause for effect, as yo have done.
As others, especially Oomis, have so ably shown, Ein Shoalin … and Al Tarbeh sicha…. have their own contexts and meanings, neither of which applies to a situation where both parties are in movement past each other, in a public place, and are not having sicha or dibur, as they are understood in halocho.
Pure, unadulterated zealotry, to no useful purpose.
I guess I had more than one thing to say.
Seriously?
Nisht, if you are familiar with the the situation in Beit Shemesh, you will know that the problems Rav Lipman is confronting are problems he didn’t seek out, but rather that were thrust upon him and the moderate frum and chardal community by zealots. As well, He has followed the “teitch” of Degel HaTorah, Shas, and other religious political parties by joining with like minded frum rabbis (like Rav Amsallem in his case) to advance an agenda that he believes will make the lives of his Torah observant community and his constituents better. If it is good for the goose, it should be good for the gander, as they say.
Perhaps it is you, YidYid, who is trying to be a different kind of Jew. The kind of Jew I am trying to be learned Torah AND plowed the land and held a spear, ready to discuss a sugya, to take trumah and maaser, to give leket and peah, but also to fight in milchamos – mitzvah, reshus, and chovah – that am yisroel required. I am trying to be the kind of Jew who not only pays attention to his personal responsibilities to HKBH, but also takes care of his national responsibilities to HKBH, which too many who wear velvet kappels have forgotten. It happens to be that the ones doing ALL these things are the ones wearing kipot srugot.
So who does that put michutz lamachane? You, or him?