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Sechel – not an attack – just curious:
How much people whose signatures appear in the infamous psak din have actually signed it? I suspect many of them are forgeries.
Sechel, am I right?
Sechel – Why “highly unlikely”? What wrong with plain clear-cut no?
And if most chabadniks hold no, why is Rabbi Sofer considered mechutz lemachene?
CS – Please tell us how the Rebbe fits with the rambam since you are demonstrating classic chabad reading comprehension skills. The rambam does not paskin like the medrash in daniel, and the Rebbe clearly said the halacha is like the rambam.
Classic Chabad reading comprehiension skills….
Hidden does not mean DEAD.
(BTW, the rambam before he says nehrag writes “Im lo Asa Kol zeh” I have never seen a lubavitcher manage to answer up this part of the rambam, instead amny dishonestly edit it out.)
If he’s still alive, The Lubavitcher Rebbe.
BTW, There are tzfatis who give out 7 mitzvos card but add an eighth – the miztvah to believe the Rebbe’s Moshiach. Pictures were posted years ago on the chabadtalk forum.
You can find a similar mindset at the Honk4Joy organization, which encourages NON-JEWS to be mekabel the Rebbe’s messiahship (their words not mine).
This is the path Chabad is heading down if they don’t do something soon.
Sechel, we know, and we appreciate what chabad does.
But I’m not sure why parts of Chabad have this hangup about helping other frum yidden. I understand it’s not the primary purpose, but when you do, do it with a smile, instead of complaining.
I for one always leave a big donation for every nonmeshichist chabad house I stay at. But I still preferred to be treated as a “special guest” than “unwanted frummie”.
(BTW, I have to pint out to every nonchabadnik reading this thread – Chabad houses recieve no special funding from any organiztion. All fund must be raised by the shliach himself. So if you use their services, and your sure the money will go towards making people frum (as opposed to making people believe in a false messiah) ALWAYS leave a large donation! The shliach and his family needs it!
CS- do you agree with my lightswitch moshol? And even if not, do you agree that there are elements in Chabad who do?
“So it’s seems from here that you you do agree that davaning that the Rebbe should be a mielitz yoisher is not kfira or avodah zarah. And thats is actually what Lubavitche does”
Some parts of Lubavich. Unfortunately it’s not a hava mina, as many meshichists take “atzmus areingeshtelt in a guf” literally enough that they daven to him and believe he answers the tefilla.
A meshichist – NOT elokist – told me that the Rebbe is on a higher level than simply tzaddik gozer and hashem mekayim – rather that the rebbe nasi hador is in in charge of the world and he can do things himself in this world, (his moshol – just like switching a light switch isn’t tzaddik gozer vehashem mekayim, but rather the person switching it does it, so too the Rebbe’s nissim in this world comes from him switching the light switch for that nes – he himself is actually doing it and not hashem, so therefore you can ask the rebbe requests and he’ll answer you.
I would assume CS agrees with this moshol.
And in myview (and Hashem’s view), it’s kefira, plain and simple.
Nah lets continue – this is fun!
CS – you misunderstood me – I was asking of you thought THE REBBE sent the spirit, or if it was merely Hashem. There’s no Tzadik gozer on something like this.
CS – it was on the Beis Moshiach article that TOI referenced. Google my quotes in quotes, it’ll pop up.
Now are you prepared to defend Wolf? Because he said everything I quoted.
Also – quote from CS
“my husband and I were discussing how by hashgacha protis, there’s a new spirit sweeping the world- one against cover up, political correctness and fake news culture, and how its going to help towards getting the world ready for moshiach…. ”
According to Wolf, the Rebbe sent the spirit for this very purpose. Are you married to him? And if not, do you agree with him?Username: I would advise you look up omniscient in a dictionary.
CS: Please defend Wolf instead of merely complimenting Username (who I agree is doing a fair job. He isn’t meshichist though – you are.)
Username: The fact that meshichists say “The rebbe is Mashiach” isn’t kefira. It’s everything else they say (The rebbe watches you, he’s omniscient, omnipotent, never made a mistake, etc.”
If you don’t believe me, read chabadtalk “Did the rebbe ever make a mistake”. There’s a clearcut line between the meshichists and the antis.
Sechel: Thanks for the apology. Know when a litvisher says something about a lubavitcher 99% of the time were not making it up. We have no agenda against chabad, just a lot of bad experiences.
I don’t want a macha from you at all – I want a kol koreh from Chabad’s leadership. It shouldn’t be that each person needs to issue a denial, it should be a mass condemnation kol koreh. The meshichists have theirs, why can’t antis get their act together as well.
So RSo and others: I think it’s established that Username is besoch Amesacha from his posts.
However, the others I’m not quite sure about. It’s a reflection on the Rebbe’s shortsightedness that he didn’t envision all of this coming.
CS and USERNAME
More kefira
But the Rebbe turned the situation around and put a person into power who had no reasonable chance of winning the presidency.More insanity
Praise Hashem, all the nations! The goyim are already proclaiming “Yechi HaMelech.”Sechel – I demand an apology for assuming I made up the Shliach story (That a frei meshichist is better than a frum litvak). This wolf guy clearly beleives this, and gave a speech to a HUGE crowd of chabadniks. So its not just a fringe thing, and it’s time to stop covering up.
(As I mentioned many times before, I have nothing but respect for chabad teachings and the Rebbe, and it bothers me when most chabadniks will not make a macha and end this madness once and for all. If the meshuggeners can have a big psak din with tons of signitures, why can’t the antis band together and make their own?)
CS – do you agree with this? From his speech
“This means that the proclamation of “Yechi HaMelech” is the essence of all of Judaism and all of Torah and mitzvos! ”
And from there it’s a small jump to “If you say Yechi, you don’t have to keep the mitzvois” “Just believe in the rebbe, that’s all of yiddishkeit”
… And a new religion is on its way!Username number – I would eat in your house 100%! it’s nice to have a sane chabadnik actually answer some questions! Ashrecha, V’ashrei harebbe shelcha!
Cs – I checked out that guy. And to you I can only say the reverse.
Time for truth,: No, predicting that abandoning them would be disastrous, unlike the litvishe gedolim, who thought it would be acceptable
@Boruch – Exactly. BTW it’s yeshivish rockstar, not yeshiva.
CHabadshlucha – The story of Chabad is one of the biggest proofs to Rav Shach’s greatness. (Conversely, the oppositon to the peace process and commitment to shleimus haaretz was one of the biggest proofs of the Rebbe’s greatness.) Both are cases where Daas Torah saw the future.
Chabad is not a cult. It may be a new religion, but a cult it is not. Most Chabadniks are independant thinkers and the Rebbe does not control every aspect of their life (at least not by force.)
@Sechel – Well Said! Exactly what I say to my litvak friends when they attack Chabad.
I just wish the leadership came out vocally against this, and when they don’t, it’s ver naturally for people to assume “Shtika Kehodaah”.
When we all saw how Chabad (rightfully) fought for their sferom till they got it with a big didon netzech, we wonder why we can’t see that today with regards to 770. And we suspect it’s because many don’t care, or worse, tacitly agree.
I don’t want to answer for sechel – it’s because he thinks its the right mehalech hachayim for him, even if others pervert it. I feel the same way about Breslov.
But that’s no excuse for the failure of chabad’s leadership to make a brouhaha to finally end this for once and for all.
@sechel. I have not read any old threads. If you accuse me of making up stories, I’ll attack back because I wonder about your motiviations.. Otherwise, I don’t really care what you think. (Though based on your last comment, we’re probably on the same page. I just wish that lubavitchers like you were more outspoken.)
mild edit
CHabadShlucha – No other chassidus in history EVER referred to their rebbe as moshiach – its a CHABAD MYTH!!!!
By repeating this point again and again, it shows how insulated you guys are from the rest of the frum velt.You remind me of a chabadnik who told me that the reason Rav Shach hated the Rebbe was because he thought that he himself was Mashiach!
The only possible exception are a small group of Breslov nanachs who call the Saba (R’ Odesser_ Moshiach – NOT R Nachman. And even they have more intellectual honesty than you guys – if you go to Har Hamenochois today, you’ll see a big sign saying “Na Nach – To The Kever of The Saba Yisroel Melech Hamashiach Zy”a.” (BN, Ill try to get a pic the next time I go.) At least they get it – Hes DEAD.
It’s Matai by Yehuda Dym and Shalom bernholtz. Originally a nonjewish song. Its on Yehud Dym’s “Purim Hits” album, which is available for purchase at mrm music.
(Resubmitted without links so it gets through..)
TT – now I’m convinced your a troll.
Do you really think the rebbe is suffering???????
I for one think he’s in Gan Eden.
SR – maybe your getting confused between Levi Ginzberg and Yitchok Ginzberg? (weird that your post got erased.)
Sechel, if he is a meshichist, he doesnt advertise it. (I never met him, just read his english sferom, which Ive liked.)
Anyways, can you please respond to the rest of my messages, instead of focusing on that one part?
If Ginzberg is Meshicihist I denounce him (just like I’d denounce any other person who plays games with one of the other 13 ikkarim, even if theyre not technically kefira per se.) How about you sechel? Would you denounce Meshichists – and by that I include even those who acknowledge the Rebbe is dead?
“Under-vaccinated children had significantly lower rates of ER visits….
”Maybe because they die sooner….
CS – he was trying to convince me the rebbe’s moshiach, so I asked him some basic questions, like where in the rambam does it say that moshiach will live forever (considering that the rebbe said that the rambam is the final posek in regards to mashiach) and whether if the rebbetzin A”H would be allowed to remarry if she was still alive (or maybe she is still alive??)
In response, he told me, we don’t understand and we just have to have emuna in the rebbe and to learn nunaleph nunbeis sichos.
BTW in regard to the original conversation, I personally feel the Rebbe ztl was a gadol (one of many), not moshaich (obvs), and happen to be a fan of Rabbi yitzchak Ginsberg, I think chabd tho has to make a big cheshbon hanefesh and draw a line in the sand,
BTW, sechel Hayashar, why the jump to say I made up the story? We all know there are certain elements in Chabad that could have made that statement, even if it’s not mainstream.
The problem is that cuckoo thought has penetrated chabad so much so that no one feels like standing up and saying something about. it. Just one – one clear cut Kol Koreh that the rebbe is not moshiach, and chabad will have been integrated back to the mainstream. But we never get that, we get denials, excuses, accusations, and explanations, and from the nonmeshichist branch statements that “while of course the rebbes dead, it doesn;t mean he’s not moshiach. But we won;t publicise it because its not achdus.”
Even Aga”ch’s Kol Koreh never came out and said clearly “The Rebbe is not Moshiach.” While I’m sure the majority of Aga”ch kol koreh believe that the rebbe is in fact not moshiach, they would never say it, because they would be out of chabad. Just ask Rabbi Yechezkel Sofer and the other so called kofrim (yes that’s what chabd is called a kofer – someone who DOESNT believe th rebbe’s moshiach) why they feel in chabad today.
CS and Sechel – Story not made up.
Sorry for the late response – I had no email updates. The Shliach is an Israeli shliach (70 year old sefardi) who was sent by the rebbe personally to a shchuna down south. And he was trying to convince me (and I was bored.) – big yechi kippa, yellow flag, igros etc.BTW CS and Sechel, do you believe 90% of the igros stories?
CS, We all know chabad “loves” jews that aren’t frum. It’s whether they love Jews who are frum that concerns us here.
(A chabad shliach once told me “it’s better to be a frei yid who holds the rebbe’s moshiach than a snag who’s frum. CS, do you agree with that? Because, IMHO, that;s EXACTLY how xtianity got started.)
Chabadshlucha, back to the beginning of this thread:
I also believe that we are on the threshold of Geula – thats why we are back in Eretz Yisrael, and Baruch hashem, we are now zoche do be able to be mekayim a mitzvah that was long gone – techeiles.
If Chabad believes were in ikvisa demeshicha, why don;t they wear techeiles and make aliya?
(as an aside, Rabbi Yitzchok Ginsberg is the only Chabad rabbi that Im aware of who is consistent and does wear techeiles and insist on yishuv haaretz.)
Avi K, R Shalom Arush just put out a paper warning that it is assur to daven to a tzaddik. The “Tziyon Hakadosh”, a Breslov guide to the Tziyon, writes explicitly one may not daven to a tzaddik. I have gone to Uman many years, and I have never seen someon davening to a tzadik (asking him to talk to Hashem,, yes, which is muttar) but davening to him, never.
Its typical litvish am haratzus to think any sort of avoda zara is going on.
I actually love Alex Jones. Often, InfoWars was the only media telling the truth.