Yeshivishrockstar

If you like NYS education laws, then vote Dem.

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if you want to live in Mexico, then vote Dem.

Otherwise, vote REPUBLICAN!

“This igros thing that you expect answers from the Rebbe is garbage.”

No ffense Chossid, but you’re being more insulting to the Rebbe than CS is. At least CS writes respectfully and clearly. You just trash whoever disagrees with you illogically.

That’s why my language on you has been so tough these past few posts.

“Good question, but the same I can’t understand how he had Ruach hakodesh and did miracles to the same is with this. Maybe he just was not an ordinary person.”

Maybe he was a God??? (/sarc)

Or more likely the story is made-up.

Username: You didn’t address my issues, which are primarily in the end of the Sicha:

Here I am copy-pasting from my previous post
Quote from SH – Therefore, the Rebbe does as much as he can to resolve this apparent conflict.

I know. But the “as much as he can” wasn’t that great, as all those who can learn can attest. The tzaar is dubious (the Amaroyim didn;t have that tzar? If you answer that they were on a higher level so they could sleep there fine. But many answer that they didn’t know chassidus, which IMHO is kefira. Even according to them still dubious why the amorayim didn’t tell the am haaratzim not to sleep because of the tzaar)

And the end is the kicker – tzaar of not having the tzaar is just ridicoulous and not even good enough to patur as it needs to be tzaar of sukkah (why are all the chassidim supposedly who have the tzaar of not having tzar sleeping so comfortably in bed), and even worse, they can rely on their Rebbe”s tzaar, which is something who find in no Halacha EVER.

The sicha a poor shatnez of kabbalah and halacha.

“He said that the Rambams conditions are unapplicable to the Rebbe today as the Rambams terms were only written to determine someone who is alive. Not if moshiach comes from the dead.”

No offense, CS, but that’s a pretty cheap copout, considering the Rambam clearly writes Neherag, which implies that his criteria DOES apply to the dead. (If not, every Neherag could still theoretically be Moshiach Min Hameisim.”) Also, “Im lo Hatzliach Ad Koh” implies he’s dead, otherwise, how would we possibly know if he hasn’t succeeded? Maybe he will with more time?

Thus, the correct reading is “Im Lo Asa Kol Zeh (and he’s dead) OR EVEN IF he did do all those things (build the bais hamikdash etc) but he was neherag, he still isn’t Mashiach, because he was Neherag.

(This answers up the rambam with the Gemear of Anavim (the famous song): How could Moshiach stand on the bais hamikdash if in order to built itwe need a king, and if a king builds it, he’s Moshiach? The answer is that the king built it but he was killed. Hence, he wasn’t Moshaich.)

Either way, the Rebbe does not fit the Rambam and is thus not Moshaich.

CS, welcome back! Can you answer my igros question please?

Thanks!

Sechel – since this is an excuse to explain why didn’t sleep in the sukkah, it makes no difference if it was intermittent or not – even shinas aray is assur chutz lasukkah. Hence, the only possible explanation in this context is the crazy one.

And we both know chabadniks believe even crazier things about their rebbe. Heck, some even think he’s alive!

Repost: My first post came out very unclearly – I want to just point out that while I believe certain meshichistin are kofrim, sukkah has nothing to do with it.

My first post may be misconstruable, and I want to clarify.

Cool to see that you have ruach hakodesh, and know what’s going on in his mind. (And why don’t you say the same thing about shach?)

Show some respect. Nobody here has called the Rebbe plain “Schneerson”. Rav Shach learned far more than you, he deserves the title Rav. Chabad Shlucha showed how someone can disagree with Rav Shach respectfully, and gained a few admireers (I for one) in how she did it.

Quote from CS:
Believing the Rebbe is a Navi has nothing to do with meshichists or Rabbi wolf. You can learn the sicha yourself, Shoftim nun aleph where the Rebbe hinted as such.

Sechel, is this true? I always thought it was some meshichisty thing. Did the Rebbe actually say this, or did he mean ruach hakodesh?

Laskern, what in the world does that post have to do with anything????

Quote from SH – Therefore, the Rebbe does as much as he can to resolve this apparent conflict.

I know. But the “as much as he can” wasn’t that great, as all those who can learn can attest. The tzaar is dubious (the Amaroyim didn;t have that tzar? If you answer that they were on a higher level so they could sleep there fine. But many answer that they didn’t know chassidus, which IMHO is kefira. Even according to them still dubious why the amorayim didn’t tell the am haaratzim not to sleep because of the tzaar)

And the end is the kicker – tzaar of not having the tzaar is just ridicoulous and not even good enough to patur as it needs to be tzaar of sukkah (why are all the chassidim supposedly who have the tzaar of not having tzar sleeping so comfortably in bed), and even worse, they can rely on their Rebbe”s tzaar, which is something who find in no Halacha EVER.

The sicha a poor shatnez of kabbalah and halacha.

CS- did you get scared away? E/o here is anxiously awaiting your answers!

Sechel – Ill say it then: There is so much yeshivish garbage history out tere, it sometimes surpasses Chabad.

(Such as the state of Yeshivois was excellent before the war, that most gedolim were antizionist – some were but some were not, etc etc)

He wrote a teshuva about the Rebbe not being Mashiach (i.e. all the meshichistim sources are not lehalacha or misconstrued.) I don’t believe it was published in sefer, but Harav google might be able to find it.

Sechel, BTW, it’s IMPOSSIBLE that the minhag not to sleep in the sukkah dates back to the Alter Rebbe, otherwise he would have pointed it out in his SA.

The whole minhag dating back thing seems to be the Rebbe’s innovation.

As far as not sleeping in the sukkah, I have no problem with that at all, neither does Belz. It’s the Justification I have a problem with. (Many people have minhagim that seem to contradict halacha, but if it’s your minhag you can follow it – unless you went thorough the sugya yourself and feel otherwise.)

Sechel, I’ve read the Sicha in the original Yiddish. Just sayin’. As a yeshiva bachur I was highly attracted to Chabad. I met some great Lubavitchers, such as R’ Shemtov from Philidalphia. However, when I realized he was in the minority, and that one or two of the Rebbe’s logical leaps were incoherent (which I have no problem with, many people make mistakes, it’s just that no one in Chabad seemed to realize that), and the biggest turnoff – that 70%-99% of Chabadniks were nuts, i left, though I still respect the Rebbe.

My biggest problem with the Sukkah Sicha – is that if one’s Rebbe is pattur from the mitzva, then all of the Chassidim are Patur. So if the Rebbe would be cold, then all chassidim in Hawaii don;t need to sleep?

And what about nowadays, Meisim Patur Min Hamitzvois, so are all Chabad chassidim Pattur Min Hamtzvois, becuase their neshama and their chiyuvim are talui in the Rebbe? (Here’s one place where the meshichistim are better off!)

As to why I refer to chabadtalk: It’s a great place to see Chabadniks be Moseich Lefi Tumoi. The comments are Hershl’s blog and many other Chabad sites do a great job of that as well.

For example, check out the vitriol poured on R Menashe Klein’s Petirah (and he was no anti-lubavicher) from the meshichistim on various chabad news sites because of his famous teshuva. And they’re 75% of the comments.

I miss Sechel and Username. They were intelligent, and had reading comprehension. So does CS, at least in English.

Laskern – THE RAMBAN WAS NOT A NAVI NOR EVER CLAIMED TO BE.

My whole problem is with Nevuah, not incorrect predictions. In fact, as I feel the Rebbe was a gadol, I think that that’s exactly what happened this time too – we could have greeted Moshiach, but we were not worthy. Pity most of Chabad doesn’t think this way.

CS – weirdly my primary post to you wasn’t approved by the mods, so here we go again.

There is no way the Rebbe is a navi, he never fulfilled the halachos of being a navi – namely making a prediction FOR THE SAKE OF PROVING ONE’S A NAVI, which the rebbe NEVER did. Thus it is impossible for him to be a Navi,. It’s about as likely as he is Moshiach.

“I have my svara but would love to hear yours.”

Is your svara that one’s referring to the Nossi Hador who cannot be argued on, and the other is for plain people like the Sanhedrin? /sarc

Seriously, what do you think the answer is?

CS– if your back

My 2 questions:
1) Is the rebbe a novi (even if not, did he say any nevuah?)
2) Did the Rebbe help elect Donald Trump?

And did your rav explain the rambam?

RSo, not sure why you’re so hung on tznius (debatable) and shluchim’s motivations (I’ll bet it’s sincere), when there are far more pressing issues in Chabad, such as A shliach’s wife on this very forum quoted a koifer (Reuven Wolf) who seems to be very widely accepted among meshichist chabad.

Although Meshichism per se is not kefira, I stand by what I said – Most meshichists are kofrim.

Read “Are tzaddikim infallible” on CHabadtalk. It’ll make your hair stand on edge.

Sechel and CS (but especially CS) How long does the seventh generation last?

Is there an end point? or is the answer “as long as necessary”? (I suspect that in 70 years, when meshichsists have finally formed their own religion, they will still be talking about how we’re in the 7th generation.)

I think we’re in the eighth generation, and those meshichists who literally believe the rebbe’s a Navi (CS, do you believe the Rebbe’s literally a navi? Because Reuvein Wolf does) essentially believe that the Rebbe is a navi sheker.

SH – I called him a koifer becuase he feels the Rebbe elected Donald Trump. He explicitly says so in his Beis Mashiach.

While I agree that Meshichism at its most basic level isn’t kefira, most Meshichists take it far and beyond that, saying straight out that the Rebbe is omniscient and cannot err, both of which I believe are kefira.

Almost all meshichists on chabadtalk agree to those two statements; I strongly urge all interested to read the old chabadtalk forums where nearly all meshichist interpret “Atzmus Umahus” literally and “Shechina Medaberes mitoch groino” to apply to the rebbe 24/7 (and not merely when the rebbe is saying a sicha) and thus approach the level of kefira.

Also read the threads about the Rebbe making mistakes etc.

Sechel, how many of the infamous’s psak din’s signatures are forged?

And if none how, how is that not representitive of lubavitch?

CS – I would like that. Please include the ravs name if you can.

Also ask him why death doesn’t remove a chazakah of mashiach, even though it removes every other chazakah in shas.