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RebYidd23 – I didn’t really follow the argument.
How do you define racism? And do you think that being the עם הנבחר is a contradiction to racism?
but since it won’t I am asking you both to move on.
BTW, I saw LU’s post last week and deliberately ignored it in order that it ‘would go away on it’s own’, but replied when I was directly asked to on a different thread.
Thank you.
“This sport that young Jews play in Eretz Yisroel in order to strengthen their bodies to be strong young men for the Nation, completes the spiritual strength of the Tzadikim above … playing sports to strengthen the body and the spirit for the strength of the entire Nation is a holy service to Hashem, and raises the Shechinah higher and higher, like the 80 songs and praises sung by Dovid HaMelech in Tehillim (Oros M’Ofel 34).
(Not my translation, nor have I seen it inside.)
So on the whole, I did rather well. Mistake #1 went unnoticed, you don’t have a problem with me complaining about the Dating posts, and you are only unsure about my second post (whatever that is).
Or, more likely, some of your posts didn’t get approved.
For example, sports players get paid exceedingly well even though they are not doing anything helpful for society. Actually, they may be doing something detrimental to society.
I don’t think Rav Kook zt”l agrees with that.
I wonder how the property market is going to react to Yoivel.
LU: “Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it is thinking of yourself less.”
There seem to be two different challenges going on here.
It is not too difficult to find a silver lining to your cloud. This isn’t arguing for something you are against; this is finding something you support in something you disagree with. It is much more difficult to try turn your cloud into silver.
The aim of this thread is to try think of something you have always been against, and try consider it from a different perspective, a different point of view, and perhaps, with the new angle, see it more positively.
#FocusOnThePositive
#CRDefendSomethingYouAgainstChallengeOn the other hand, one can say that eating is not a time for playing with toys. We eat to live and we live to serve Hashem.
We also play toys for Hashem.
The Yaavetz is pretty clear that it isn’t just an issue of pride or rights, but it’s a halachic advantage. There is a mefurashe Tosfos about it somewhere, but I cant remember where…
Evloution of language.
Bit like Pesach = Peisach = Puysach
Still waiting for Cholent = Chulent = Cheelent
Greek is holy because the emperor Ptolemy wanted a copy of the torah in Greek for his library in Alexandria.
I thought the Gemara learns it from a posuk יפת אלקים ליפת וישכון באהלי שם. Do you know of any valid source that connects the translation to Greek to the fact that you may read a Greek Torah scroll?
Lightbrite: Is a first born man who was born through a cesarean section and/or to a mother who had a previous miscarriage still considered a first born in this case, if it is something regulated to first borns?
Sorry, I just saw your question now. Interesting question. I haven’t seen anything on the subject of which firstborns will do the Avoidah.
If the source to the idea that the avoidah will return to firstborns is the Midrash כי לי כל בכור, then we are exclusively talking about פטר רחם, which refers to a firstborn who opened the womb of his mother. Born through a c-section, or after a miscarriage (in most cases) is not considered a firstborn for Pidyon HaBen, and it probably has the same Halachos.
I don’t think it’s much of a proof, but in Hilchos Bircas Kohanim, the Leviim must wash the hands of the Kohanim prior to the blessing, and if there are no Leviim present the Bechorim will wash instead. And there the Poskim explicitly state that only a Bechoir Peter Rechem (Min HaEm, not Min HaAv) can do it. See Magen Avraham here. I wonder if this is connected at all.
How I love looking into people through their posts!!!! How it fascinates me!!
I find the same thing. Only, besides for fascinating me, it sometimes horrifies me, or disgusts me. Other times I feel all warm and fuzzy and Mi-KeAmcho-Yisroel-ey. But I do love how much you can tell about a person from his posts. (More often than not, the things they didn’t want to show in the post)
Mistake #1) There is a difference between erring on the side of caution and pointing out problems with a post a moderator chooses to post.
Mistake #2) I guess in this specific case there wasn’t much more than what met the eye, because there was no evidence of any editing and the moderator was very clear about what s/he had against the post.
Are you worried about my comment on Rebshidduch’s shidduch history?
Is there anything else I was wrong about?
(BTW, You’ll notice that I didn’t write my post when you defended Shopping613; I wrote it after a Moderator hinted there may be more and you asked for explanation. It may make a difference to your list of fallacies)
Of course there is a difference, Sam2.
mw13 was pointing out that he has no inferiority complex when he sees others being more frum than himself. This comes from security and self esteem.
If people are being less frum than you – ie., doing things you feel are wrong, you have every right to be upset. That’s the way it should be.
After #1258472, I wonder how long it’s going to take before the thread shuts down.
Joseph – you pretend not to see the difference between spiritual equality [and lack thereof] to racism? That’s absurd. Why does the fact that one nation was chosen by Hashem mean that people of a particular skin colour should not be given the rights to vote, or basic human rights like anybody else? Why is creed or nationality a reason to be discriminated against, and to be treated as a sub-human? What about Matan Torah allowes slavery based by colour?
I did a little looking around, and it seems that many Rishonim do hold it is a daily chiyuv min haTorah:
1) Rabbeinu Yonah in Iggeres Teshuva Ois 24 writes that one who doesn’t wear tefillin has close to 300 עונשים yearly.*
2) Smag (Asei #3) and Shibolei HaLeket Inyan Tefillin are clear that the Gemara (Menachos 44) which says that he who doesn’t fulfill the obligation of tefillin is oiver 8 miztvos refers to daily. (He proceeds to say some very interesting things about tefillin being beikar for reshaim, not tzaddikim… See also Maharik 174). — Courtesy of Google and קובץ בית אהרון וישראל, ר’ יעקב הכהן שבדרון*
3) Ritv”a Shabbos 49 – Chiyuv is Min HaTorah B’shas Krias Shema (Which is very interesting)
The Brisker Rav is brought by Reb Moshe Shternbuch תשובות והנהגות ח”א סי’ מ”ט, ח”ב סי’ ל, ח”ג סי” י”א.
* It is not muchach that these Rishonim contradict the Brisker Rav. It could be that although the chiyuv is not a new one every day, one who doesn’t wear them ever is punished for every day, like the Rambam writes by Milah.
Mods – Please allow this link. It is a PDF copy of Minchas Osher.
Correction to <ahref=http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/tznius-gone-too-far/#post-1258370>this comment: סוטה דף י אמוד ב, not אמוד א
You must leave a space between the “a” and “href”.
I see Sam2 awaiting moderation.
Is he going to call burqas Darkei Emori or Chukas HaGoy? I wonder.
EDIT: His post was approved after mine. I was wrong.
There is no Yekke #1.
Reminds me of the joke about the wife who told her unsuccessful husband that he’s such a shlumazel that if there was an award for being a loser, he’d get second place.
Startled, he asked why only #2 and not first.
Cackling, his wife told him that he was such a loser, he’d never be #1 in anything.
Tosfos in Menachos 35b brings a machlokes whether one must lay tefillin daily or not.
Pri Megadim is mistapek about it here. http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=41247&st=&pgnum=61
I believe I saw a write up about this in Minchas Osher (don’t remember where).
Very true, Midwesterner. I missed that.
Although you are correct that Shechitah [slaughtering] is permitted by a non-Kohen, and the Gemara explicitly writes (Zevachim 32a) that it is לכתחילה, there are those who say that ideally, a Kohen or Levi should do it.
The source I remember offhand for this is the Ya’avetz in Lechem Shamayim on Kiddushin Perek Daled. I vaguely remember seeing more about this, but can’t remember now. A Rosh at the beginning of Chullin, perhaps?
Hard not to be curious how what criteria you use to deem others lesser than you.
I was wondering if you were going to ask that. Immediately after I pressed “submit”, I wanted to change it. It isn’t about lesser or greater – it’s about people I respect. I care [on a personal level] what people who I respect think of me.
To answer your question somewhat indirectly [to allay your fears?], I don’t define “lesser” by somebody less talented, of lesser intellect or lower religious values than myself. And although unasked, I’ll let you know that respect doesn’t come from people being more talented, intellectual or higher religious values than myself.
I’ve definitely been getting practice in the CR!
Which, I suppose, should lead to more benefits:
1) Developing a thicker skin and not taking everything so personally
2) Developing a thicker skin and being able to accept insults from lesser individuals without it bothering you.
I agree with Mod-29. Let’s change it.
1) Developing a thicker skin and not misreading things that were neverr meant as insults.
2) Developing a thicker skin and being able to accept insults from others [especially anonymous online posters] without it making you feel any worse about yourself.
(It would make more sense to talk about developing maturity and self esteem, as Mod-29 wrote, but those aren’t direct benefits of being insulted in the Coffee Room, they are just the correct ways of dealing with it.)
It stems from an unhealthy approach to tznius; perhaps from an attitude which completely misses the point of tznius.
Having said that, I also don’t understand the animosity and hostility directed to Burqa wearers. People treat it like a cardinal sin, when to my eyes, it’s not that bad. To me, the reaction is totally exaggerated.
My limited view notwithstanding, the Gedolim have (apparently) come out against it.
There is a great danger for the United State of America. This great danger is the Jew. Gentlemen, in every land the Jews have settled, they have depressed the moral level and lowered the degree of commercial honesty. They have remained apart and unassimilated; oppressed, they attempt to strangle the nation financially, as in the case of Portugal and Spain.
For more than seventeen hundred years they have lamented their sorrowful fate — namely, that they have been driven out of their mother land; but, gentlemen, if the civilized world today should give them back Palestine and their property, they would immediately find pressing reason for not returning there. Why? Because they are vampires and vampires cannot live on other vampires –they cannot live among themselves. They must live among Christians and others who do not belong to their race.
If they are not expelled from the United States by the Constitution within less than one hundred years, they will stream into this country in such numbers that they will rule and destroy us and change our form of Government for which we Americans shed our blood and sacrificed our life, property and personal freedom. If the Jews are not excluded within two hundred years, our children will be working in the field to feed Jews while they remain in the counting houses, gleefully rubbing their hands.
I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews forever, your children and your children’s children will curse you in their graves. Their ideas are not those of Americans, even when they lived among us for ten generations. The leopard cannot change his spots. The Jews are a danger to this land, and if they are allowed to enter, they will imperil our institutions. They should be excluded by the Constitution.
— Falsely attributed to Benjamin Franklin
[T]he Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably [sic] very small… . I could wish their Numbers were increased…. But perhaps I am partial to the Complexion of my Country, for such Kind of Partiality is natural to Mankind.
[W]hy increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America?”
— Benjamin Franklin
Me neither. I find it sort of creepy when grown adults are playing with kites in the rain.
I wrote quite a lengthy response to the OP, which has disappeared. I don’t think I wrote anything remotely questionable.
Did one of the Mods disapprove it, or did I just not post it properly?
I do not see it anywhere.
Thank you. If I have time, maybe I’ll try write it again.
These type of seforim are extremely unreliable. I’ve seen in one of those type of Seforim that BR held there is no chiyuv to put on tefilin on a daily basis anymore.
This sefer is a collection of other printed seforim – obviously, some more reliable than others. You have to know the sefer he brings down and make sure it is reliable.
The example you mention here is also not as clear-cut as you’re making it out to be. What you [probably?] saw wasn’t a halachic psak that it is not necessary to wear tefillin. What it probably did say was something very different. Let me try guess.
There are seforim which discuss whether Tefillin is daily obligation, like Shema, or whether it is a chiyuv which is not necessarily timed daily. If someone missed a day of tefillin, was he mevatel an assei min haTorah? I have never seen the Brisker Rav’s position on the subject, but I can imagine him saying that Tefillin isn’t a daily chiyuv – which is, I think, the position of most Rishonim.
We do find that the ikker chiyuv of Tefillin is all day every day – not daily, but constant. Due to us not having a גוף נקי, we don’t wear it all the time. “The once a day” isn’t necessarily a daily chiyuv.
[I have never seen a source in Rishonim for a DAILY obligation to wear Tefillin. I’d be very grateful for someone to show me one.]
I can’t defend something I haven’t seen, and I certainly have found quotes from the Brisker Rav that are incorrect (On more than one occasion, I have found מפי שמועה the same diyuk in the same Rashi, with totally contradictory conclusions.)
Where is this quote from?
They aren’t lesser because they insult. They generally insult because they are lesser.
When somebody I respect insults me, I don’t want to just not care. If I respect him/her, then I would want to fix what they look down on me about. If they are better than me, I would just discard their comments about me.
The people whose insults I pay absolutely no attention to are those who I consider lesser individuals. I don’t feel the need to change, or to justify myself to them.
If I was talking about criticism, then you are certainly correct. Being able to take constructive criticism from lessers is a skill not easily learned, and certainly a valuable one. But insults? You shouldn’t give them a moments notice.
What would the Brisker Rov do with the shito of “Mitzvas Betales L’Osid Lovo” Is that also heresy?
To think that the Torah will change is heresy. To find a reason why in accordance to the Torah we have now things will manifest differently is okay. As long as you can source it in the Torah which was transmitted at Sinai, it can be true.
In your above example, מצוות בטילות לעתיד לבא, I think the Ritv”a explains that it is not referring a specific time when Mitzvos will no longer be applicable, but is referring to a situation. The Gemara darshens כיון שמת נעשה חפשי מן המצוות – Dead people are not obligated in commandments. The Ritva understands this to mean that even after תחיית המתים – the Resurrection of the Dead – those who have been through death will not be obligated in the Mitzvos.
This is not because the Torah will change. If today somebody would be resurrected (as there have been stories recorded in Tanach, Shas), he would equally be exempt from Mitzvos.
EDIT: See R’ Elchonon Wasserman in Kovetz Shiurim Ch. 2, Siman 29
RE Tefillah after the Redemtion:
From the Mabi”t (Kiryas Sefer) in Beis Elokim:
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14113&st=&pgnum=286
I can play a couple of instruments, but I’m best at playing the fool.
When you just post a link, the new system automatically converts it to a link with the name of the thread title, and a link the to the thread in general.
If you create your own hyperlink, it works.
< a href=_______________________________>XXXXX< /a>
(remove spaces between the ‘<‘ and the ‘a’ for the code to work. XXXXX is where you write the text you want to appear.
Avoidah – Literally ‘service’. This is how we refer to the service of the Cohanittes and Levittes in the the Beis HaMikdash/Temple.
Daas Zekeinim – A medieval commentary on the Torah written by “Ba’alei Tosefos”
Machlokes Rishonim – A matter which is subject to debate by early commentators and halachic authorities.
זרה: Lit. Stranger (feminine). Any person who is not from the progeny of Ahron HaKohen is considered a זר or זרה, and therefore may not perform the Temple Service. Those who are from the progeny of Ahron HaKohen have “Kedushas Kehunah” – a certain spiritual status which Kohanim have.
em>P’sul of אשה – “Psul” means disqualification, and “אשה” is a woman. The Talmud writes that a woman is disqualified from Temple Service. The subject of debate was to classify the disqualification: Are women simply excluded from Kedushas Kehunah – the required spiritual status necessary to perform Temple Service? Or do they have this required status (as may be evident from the fact that female Kohanim may eat certain foods which are exclusively reserved for Kohanim), but there is a non-related independent law in Temple Service requiring male service.
Chayev Misah – Deserving of the Death Sentence. Transgressing certain biblical prohibitions are liable to death penalty (in times when the Jewish Court of Law is governing; not applicable today).
Chiddushim – Novel Torah thoughts.
כל מקום שנאמר לי אינו זז לעולם לא בעולם הזה ולא לעולם הבא..בבכורות כתיב “כי לי כל בכור” –
ויקרא רבה ב בAny place where the word “לי” – Lit, “to Me” – is used, it will be everlasting and will not cease ever, not in this world or the World to Come. [Example:] In regards to Firstborns, it says לי. (Misrash Rabbah, Leviticus 2.2)
ס’ “אוצרות רבותינו מבריסק” ע’ ס”ג – This is the name of a book, and the page number – 63.
ולכן יהיה כהנים בני צדוק כה”ג והבכורים כהנים הדיוטים וא”ש. – The Kohanim (descendants of Tzadok) will be High Priests, and Bechorim (firstborns) will be the regular Priests.
If you require more explanation to anything above, I’d be happy to simplify it to the best of my capacity.
Hatzlachah Rabba! (Much Success!)
I doubt that was counted, mw13. To truly Defend Something You Are Against calls for justifying the position you disagree with, not using their words to claim something entirely different.
But glad you liked it!
dooksta123: Sorry. If you point to any specific post you want translated, I’ll do my best.
Watch a master play this game.
Poppa Bar Abba, starring in “Modern Orthodoxy”.
Defending BOTH sides of the argument. At the same time. Against himself.
See here, then here, and finally http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/modern-orthodoxy-1/#post-1145903
I never understood the Sanz/Bobov minhag that married men do not wear tefillin but the bochurim/under-18s do.
If the minhag is based on the Zohar that one who wears tefillin on Chol HaMoed is Chayav Missah, then this must equally apply to all people. I can understand “bochurim not being oizek in chassidus”, and leaving lofty madreigos lifnim mishuras hadin until after marriage. But this isn’t a lofty height to achieve, this is a Halachah (al pi kabbalah) of CHIYUV MISAH.
I asked a very good friend of mine who has this minhag, and he just smiled condescendingly at me and shook his head.