Chortkov

I was wondering the same thing.

Bump.

Joseph: GHD: Which part of it did you not “concur” with? The Rabbeinu Tam, the Rishonim, the Gemorah, the Mordechai, the Beis Yosef, the Yaavetz or the Chasam Sofer?

When I saw your post I realized that I forgot to write – I don’t think this is an accepted Halachah. I haven’t been into the sugya properly, but the Rishonim reject the Rabbeinu Tam’s view – largely on account of the Gemara in Sukkah 8 which is mefurash that סוכת גנב”ך is Kosher. The Mordechai’s mehalech (that it is only lechatchila) isn’t consistent with the Rabbeinu Tam’s view elsewhere that even בדיעבד, tzitzis made by women are פסול. The Yaavetz’ mehalech is also very shver from Gemara’s which are משמע that סוכת גנב”ך refers to a Sukkah built by a woman, not for a women.

Yekke: It was minimally a partial refutation of the quote of his you bolded “Women can build a sucah…”

You’ll have to learn the difference one day between refuting a view and nitpicking on an example. Gadolhadorah’s view saying that women are as manly as men, and there is no reason to stereotype. I wasn’t getting involved in debating gender roles, stereotypes and feminism in Mitzvos. It just reminded me of the tzad that a woman cannot built a Sukkah, which I posted. Gadolhadorah was justified in sardonically point out the relevance [and lack thereof] to this thread.

SUPPOSE THE rabbonim would discover that the tobacco used in cigareettes are froma n indian temple and it is avoda zara.

Well, that’s easy. How many women do you know who have given up their Sheitels after the recent uproar? It’s easier to find a Posek who hasn’t gone into the sugya or who is meikal.

This is interesting.

Why on earth would they have such a custom?

It is an extremely strange choice of study.

How many smokers actually acknowledge that it is assur?

You quote David Lichtenstein, talking on a radio show designed to be controversial, liberal and provocative. That isn’t going to convince anyone at the best of time – especially smokers, who have negius that it should be muttar.

Look at it from the point of view of a smoker.

– Stage 1: There is the famous teshuva in Igros Moshe where R’ Moshe is basically mattir for those who are not בעלי נפש*. There is a large amount of discussion in earlier Poskim about smoking on Yim Tov, but very clear documented proof that at one point, it was Muttar. Of course there are discussions as to whether or not the hetter still applies; various testimonies which are disputed – nothing concrete.

– Stage 2: Everybody smokes. Walk around Eretz Yisroel. Stand outside any Beis Hamedrash. Dozens of Gedoilim – Yerei Shamayim and Talmidei Chachamim of immense proportions – smoke or smoked themselves.

– Take this a stage further. Not only do such a large proportion of frum, heimishe Yidden smoke, but very few accepted Gedoilim have ever come out publicly against smoking. Imagine if Klal Yisroel were eating certified pork on the streets – wouldn’t you expect pashkevilin, Smoking Asifas, public speeches – some sort of awareness campaign? When something is so blatantly widespread, you expect a strong reaction if it would be assur . But what do we see? Snippets of private conversations busybodies have with gedoilim, where they agree that it is assur to start smoking.

– Even if the facts are there, on some level, most smokers don’t believe it is truly dangerous. Just like most of us drink Coke, and eat fatty foods – although we are aware that these things are nutritional disaster – it’s because we don’t actually believe it will cause any lasting damage. Consider to yourself the number of smokers you personally know, and how many people you know who have ever died from smoking. On some subconcious level, we consider it like driving a car; accidents happen, and it is dangerous – but hey, nothing’s going to happen when you get into a car. Nobody has ever walked around the corner because of the health risk in driving.

In summary: An activity which is (1) considered muttar by רוב of Klal Yisroel – specifically something that (2) was once unanimously accepted – (3) which is still practiced by רבים וטובים, is not going to be fought with ambiguity.

It wasn’t introduced by the Goyim.

Jewish women proposing to their husbands has been part of the Jewish marriage ever since Rus proposed to Boaz.

Not up to scratch, Joseph.

The normal you would be positing about how it’s assur to propose, and how the whole concept of proposing comes from the Goyim.

Lightbrite – It’s not a competition between Hashem and the Rabbonim. Hashem gave us certain mitzvos, and gave the Chaza”l (the Rabbanim) the ability to create additional commandments and restrictions.

In general, our rule is ספק דאורייתא לחומרא וספק דרבנן לקולא. When faced with a doubt in Torah Law, we must be stringent. When faced with a doubt in Rabbinic law, you don’t have to take the more stringent side. (Why this is so, when according to many, every Rabbinic ediction is also Biblically mandated, is subject to debate. There numerous answers.)

When faced with a ספק ברכה, you have two doubts: (A) A ספק rabbinic commandment to make a blessing, and (B) a ספק prohibition to say G-d’s name in vain. There is a מחלוקת whether this would be Biblically prohibited or only Rabbinically prohibited, seeing as it is said in the context of blessing, and not entirely in vain. Therefore, we say that ספק דרבנן לקולא allows you to be lenient and not make the blessing, and because of ספק ברכה לבטלה you are not allowed to make the blessing*.

So you don’t make a brocho. It is a מחלוקת whether you are now allowed to eat. There is a prohibition [although almost certainly rabbinic] to eat without a prior blessing. Although you do not make a ברכה when in doubt, you are left with a possibility of איסור**.
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* I’m not sure why you are not allowed to make the blessing according to the authorities that a ברכה לבטלה is only rabbinically forbidden – we should apply the same dictum and say ספק רדבנן לקולא.

** Here you don’t necessarily say ספק דרבנן לקולא. It’s complicated why, but it doesn’t fit the parameters. There is a חזקת איסור – it was once definitely forbidden. It may be דבר שיש לו מתירין.

What have other people heard of the experience of half black children who have tried to be raised as Yeshivish?

There was a child in a similar situation – but not half black, he was black – who applied to a Chareidi school in London. The school accepted him immediately. When a parent of another child in the school complained that he didn’t want this child in the school, the school threatened to kick out their child, not the black kid.

To the best of my knowledge, he is very happy in the school.

I was brought up with the principle that you set your life around your avoidas Hashem, not the other way around. In other words, we don’t daven when we wake up, we wake up to daven. The idea of deciding which minyan to join was totally foreign to my father; you decided what time you were davening and set your alarm accordingly. If I planned on davening at 7.45 and ended up davening 8.15, in his eyes, that was oversleeping. Not getting up at the time planned was considered a חיסרון in Avoidas Hashem.

Eli51: A Bochur should daven Schacharis whatever time he davens when he is in Yeshiva during the Zeman. If he davens any later than that he is showing Hashem now that he is off from Yeshiva He is taking a rest from Hashem

Do you think a bochur should learn during bein hazmanim the same amount that he learns during zman?
Explain, in your own words, what you feel the function of bein hazmanim is?

(As far as standards in Halacha/Avoidas Hashem (such as missing zman krias shema, or watching movies), I agree with you, that there is no difference between zman and bein hazmanim, and lowering standards when out of yeshiva indicates a general lack of sincerity or devotion.)

Mentsch1: yekke and others
There are obviously inyanim of hishtadlus here

Which therefore renders your point moot. The minute you acknowledge that leaving dangerous things in the hands of dangerous people based on trust in Hashem doesn’t work, you acknowledge that leaving guns in the hands of people likely to shoot humans with them is impossible.

The chiyuv of Tzedakah is די מחסרו – what he is lacking. Even if you disagree with the necessity of somebodies standard of living, you are still mechuyav to provide the standard of living he is used to. I’m not saying that this story is something he needs, but I am saying that we have no right to decide what someone is entitled to or what he isn’t.

The family who lives next door us (in my dirah in Eretz Yisroel) are penniless. Our Dirah has taken it upon ourselves – with the initiative of one particularly generous roommate of mine – to give them [anonymously] some of the basic necessities for Shabbos – we pool the money and leave a box outside their front door every Thursday. Ten minutes later, it disappears. They have no idea where it comes from.

Once, two of the kids knocked on our door and asked us for candy. When we said we didn’t have, they asked for a shekel to buy some candy. I commented to a friend that this isn’t even tzedakah. He got very upset with me, and said that just because I don’t consider candy a necessity, for a child, this is די מחסרו. If they cannot afford candy, then we are equally obligated to provide candy for the kids as we are to provide vegetables for the adults.

Set aside specific times and stick to them. Do you prefer to cover ground to learn in depth? If you enjoy covering ground, set yourself a goal – an omud a day? Half an omud a day? Work out a realistic plan for how long this will take, and dedicate that time for learning. If you enjoy learning in depth, don’t set a goal in distance, this will only disturb your goal. But dedicate that hour for learning this particular limmud, and stick to it. If you have a specific time set aside daily for one activity, it is much more likely to be accomplished.

When it comes to Halachah – especially Hilchos Shabbos – it is very easy to give up. Again, keep a specific time for Halocho, and try keep to schedule as much as you can. If you can commit to a page of Mishna Berura daily, you will cover ground. The key is to be as diligent as possible, because when it comes to Halachah, if you miss your seder once or twice, you will find you are getting nowhere and give up. It’s got to be persistent, determined and diligent.

The key is in the decision. How much importance you give the limmud will be reflected in your decision to simply learn. Keeping a seder is easier than learning when you have time. Make sure you have a structure.

Mentch:
Do you think we should do away with prisons, and let all the murderers and abusers roam the streets with impunity? After all, no one can do anything against the Will of Hashem; what have we to lose?

Listening to a Shiur on Torah Anytime is just as valid as any other learning

A shiur on TorahAnytime is not as valid as any other learning. I say this for two reasons:

A) Many modern shiurim – in particularly the style on TorahAnytime – contain plenty of content which isn’t Torah and isn’t learning. I am not discrediting the speakers; for purpose of inspiration, you need to be interesting, you need to be original, and you often need to be funny. Cute anecdotes, powerful stories and emotional flavour is certainly conducive to getting across a message, to keeping the attention of non-attentive people, and to keeping a sometimes heavy shiur light. However, if an hour “Torah shiur” is spent with thirty minutes of Torah and thirty minutes of fluff, you haven’t learnt for an hour.
Furthermore – listening to something inspiring doesn’t necessarily constitute Limud Torah – even besides for the jokes and stories, even the toichen isn’t necessarily Torah. Of course it is essential to Avoidas Hashem, but Yirah does not equal Torah. See what the Nefesh HaChaim writes in Shaar Daled about people who spend all their time on Yirah and don’t actually learn the Torah.

B) There is something called ביטול תורה באיכות – qualitative bittul Torah. An hour spent investing all your intellectual capacity and energy into what you are doing is worth infinitely more than an hour spent lying on your bed, staring at your ceiling with earphones plugged in.

From what I hear, every bochur in the yeshiva can have a great shuychus with the Rosh Yeshiva.

Just so that you know – there is a lot of pressure. The standards of hasmadah are higher than most similar Yeshivas, and it is expected that you shtell Tzu to that. The shiur room gets locked during shiur; if you need the bathroom, you have to ask the Rosh Yeshiva for the key to get out. On Motze Shabbos, the Rosh Yeshiva gives schmooze for up to three hours at a time. Last zman, he even gave an “emergency schmooze” for all the bochurim and yungerliet, bemoaning the terrible yeridah that bochurim now use the bathroom in the middle of seder, and forbidding it except for emergency cases.

Many people thrive under the pressure – I have friends who learnt in R’ Tzvi’s, whose attitude to learning totally changed – currently some of the biggest masmidim I know. For those who can cope, the demanding and exacting standards force you to rise to heights you didn’t know you had or never had the zitzfleish to reach. For others, however, it can be a little too stifling. (There are not many avenues of outlet there)

Thank you, Geordie613. I hope you had a meaningful Elul!

No. The wealth of pesukim, midrashim and gemaras we have that discuss the coming of Moshiach/World to Come are full of references to the sun – e.g. it’s healing powers for tsaddikim, or the fact that the moon will be restored to be as powerful as the sun.

Maybe you are confusing it with this?
אמר להם [הקב”ה לאומות העולם]: מצוה קלה אני נותן לכם, אם אתם משמרין אותה אתן לכם שכר כישראל. אמר להם: לכו ועשו סוכה. מיד כל אחד ואחד הולך ועשה לו סוכה. והקב”ה מוציא חמה מנרתיקה וכל אחד מבעט בסוכתו ויוצא, שנאמר: “ננתקה את מוסרותמו”. והקב”ה משחק עליהם, שנאמר: “יושב בשמים ישחק ה’ ילעג למו”.

HKB”H will offer the goyim the chance to do one mitzvah and get reward – and he will choose the Mitzvah of Sukkah. The Nations of the World will build sukkas. At this point, Hashem will remove the sun from it’s sheath, and each of them will kick their sukkah and leave.

“Removing the sun from it’s sheath” – at least in the simplest understanding – refers to the strengthening of the sun, not the sun disappearing. (See also Nedarim 8b.)

Would you ask a painter why he’s painting a pastoral scene, since there are thousands of pastoral paintings already?

At simchas where I had a camera, I felt less emotionally attached, less involved, less simcha. Yes, I got some fantastic shots of Uncle Barry balancing the bottle on his head while Cousin Yanky did a cartwheel, but I wasn’t part of the Chasuna.

People are too busy documenting the event for eternity that they forget to experience it themselves.

And herein lies the distinction – there is definitely an enjoyment in successfully capturing something on film; similar to the painter in Avram MDs example. It is a way of enscribing something through your own personal lens, if you like. So it depends what you are aiming to do – a pastoral scene is always there; you can come back another time to view it. Now I’m here to paint. A once in a lifetime experience – here it depends what you find more exhilirating – the thrill of experience, or the thrill of trying to capture it.

So last night I was at the same Chasuna as Geordie613.

Tomorrow night I will be at the same chasunah as NetiquamErro, iy”H.

Anybody else at any of these weddings? We can only guess…

Oif Simchas!!