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“1] Can you point to where in tanya it says that a tsaddik of Tanya is INFALLIBLE ?” [YB to CS}
A tzaddik is totally in line with Hashem’s Ratzon, so his “mistakes” don’t come from yetzer hara but are also directed by Hashem… [CS to YB]
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A mistake is just that – a mistake. Does it have to come from yetser hara ? Maybe it is just human to make a mistake ? Does a tsadiq from tanya know EVERYTHING ?Tanya himself says clearly that hahmei hazal do not know everything . So they cannot be tsadiqim ???
“2] Can you point to any source acceptable to all hugim in Yahadut that your leader qualified as a Tsaddiq of Tanya ?” [YB to CS]
Is there any public widely known instance of The Rebbe doing any aveira? Those who know The Rebbe say not… besides for the sheer holiness etc [CS to YB]
———–
Your Rebbi was a controversial person. That is well established fact . There are admittedly many rabbanim who held him in high regard [in various stages of his life] but on the other hand many more rabanim are known to have criticized him on a personal level, some even very harshly so.I think this is an accurate description of your rebbi’s reputation.
So to say axiomatically that your rebbi qualifies as a tsaddiq of tanya …. is doubtful.
To base all your ikarei emuna on that premise is like basing your investment on a 50/50 chance of total loss.
To all undecided readers of these lines I would say – hedge your bets ….
.
CS:
Obviously you’re ignorant of the medrash that depict this scenario as I posted on our other conversation some time ago to avira. In addition it’s in the classic sources that certain tzaddikim will have techias hameisim early. If I finish all the tasks needed to bring Moshiach (especially if I have 9 other yidden with me), it’s entirely plausible that I’ll go to the Ohel of the Rebbe and demand that he lead the Geula as we’re already all living in Geula mode spiritually. And it will happen.Another scenario is that a certain person will be “Moshiachs assistant” and lead the Geula here on Earth using all the tasks and power left in our instruction manual. In fact this person is already on the planet in the wake of the tragedy of October 7. In that case, The Rebbe would be the honorary Golus Moshiach and the Assistant who led the Geula physically will be crowned Moshiach. The Rebbe hinted at this option in the sicha regarding Kaisar and Palgei Kaiser. Look it up if you wish.
YB:
For two thousand years we have not had the crookedness of loud public belief of mashiach coming back .
All Jews knew the first answer to a Xtian missionary – Where are all the promises of the nevi’im in J’s lifetime ??As RAMBAN put it so eloquently [in his sefer havikuach] THE FACT THAT THOSE PROMISES WERE NOT FULFILLED IN HIS LIFETIME IS AMPLE PROOF TO THE FALSEHOOD OF THEIR CLAIM.
Mashiach dying and coming back IS definitely xtian.
Thats RAMBAN’s view.
btw -There is not one Orthodox Jew on this planet who does not regard RAMBAN as one the gdolei hador and all Jews from his times onwards agreed.
RAMBAN can be safely assumed to have known the whole torah, including any midrash CS’s search engine might produce.
and nevertheless stated thatTHE FACT THAT THOSE PROMISES WERE NOT FULFILLED IN HIS LIFETIME IS AMPLE PROOF TO THE FALSEHOOD OF THEIR CLAIM.
We [plural – the ENTIRE klal yisrael in ALL generations since] rely on RAMBAN for everything, ranging from isurei de’oraytah hamurim to inyanei hashkafa hamurim .
So when tiny teensy CS [huge understatement] wants to overrule RAMBAN based on some midrash her search engine supplied her with, we [the entire klal yisrael] should send her packing on a long one way trip to the desert.
Bear in mind that this midget of a CS confessed the following : “I naturally find the nitty gritty debate of oxen and people challenging and uninspiring (btw so does my brother but he has a chiyuv anyway and I don’t!]”
The above is a self portrait of the ‘BAT PLUGTA” of the RAMBAN ….. Shomu shamayim.
Hu Asher Dibarnu ….
You [plural] either joke about it. Or change topics.
Or pretend that an obvious non answer will do the job. [YB to CS]—————-
YB:
Only once you will be prepared to internalize that this person was a fallible human , prone to mistakes and subject his personal negi’ot, notwithstanding his many talents and mesirut nefesh, only then we will be able to see a possibility to have REAL open and honest, evidence based discussion of all of the above.
Until then we will have to suffice with shallow responses, change of topics, misplaced claims of victimhood and occasional jokes.
But not a serious discussion.
Haval.”CS:
Apparently you never met a Tzaddik of Tanya. Sounds like the Yanuka and Modzitzer Rebbe may qualify. Go and learn.——————————————————————-
1] Can you point to where in tanya it says that a tsaddik of Tanya is INFALLIBLE ?2] Can you point to any source acceptable to all hugim in Yahadut that your leader qualified as a Tsaddiq of Tanya ?
3] Is the concept of ‘tsadiq of Tanyah’ widely accepted in Yahadut – outside of the hasidi circles ?
4] Is the tsaddiq of Tanya explanation the only available one to explain the relevant ma’amarei hazal ?
5] If there exist other explanations , how are they more deficient in actually explaining the relevant ma’amarei hazal when compared to the Tanya’s [besides that they will not serve the habad cause]
6] Why do you employ the condescending attitude that it is the opposite side who has ‘go and learn’ ?
Maybe it is actually YOU who should ‘go and learn’ ???
.YB:
“ Your crooked theology has [and will further] give fuel to Xtian pretenses to make unsuspecting Jews accept the messiahship [and worse] of their discredited idol.
You [plural] have never taken all those serious issues by the horns…You either joke about it. Or change topics.
Or pretend that an obvious non answer will do the job.CS:
I’m sorry that to you, Moshiach is xtian. That’s actually apikorsus.
———————————————————————————–
Looks like CS is trying to prove my point.
This is either an obvious non answer or a joke.For two thousand years we have not had the crookedness of loud public belief of mashiach coming back .
All Jews knew the first answer to a Xtian missionary – Where are all the promises of the nevi’im in J’s lifetime ??As RAMBAN put it so eloquently [in his sefer havikuach] THE FACT THAT THOSE PROMISES WERE NOT FULFILLED IN HIS LIFETIME IS AMPLE PROOF TO THE FALSEHOOD OF THEIR CLAIM.
So , no , obviously the idea of mashiach is not xtian .
But Mashiach dying and coming back IS definitely xtian.And your [plural] stupid propagation of your discredited mashiach coming back , which is against YOUR [plural] OWN publicly stated mass- and multiyear position, is being used by xtians in their dangerous missionary work , shmadding innocent nefashot forever.
All for a bit narishe kavod – Just to be able to say : My Leader is greater than everyone else. My Torah is deeper than everyone else’s.
Satmar rav vayechi is daat yachid.
Rov minyan ubinyan of gdolei yisrael disagreed with him on most of his rabid anti zionist views.Some say that even he himself sometimes overstated his own shitah , because of the hurricane of Zionism after the war.
Now that we are much further from the war and the allure of Zionism lost most of its appeal, we don’t need this extreme rhetoric which was used in those times.People like you, tend to view the world through this one dimensional Lense, and therefore your picture comes out crooked and unbalanced.
Your crooked theology has [and will further] give fuel to Xtian pretenses to make unsuspecting Jews accept the messiahship [and worse] of their discredited idol.
You [plural] have never taken all those serious issues by the horns.You either joke about it. Or change topics. Or ignore it.
Or pretend that an obvious non answer will do the job.@CS
Not bashing you and your fellow hasidim at all.
Clearly stated that you are all wonderful and special people who try and do good .
Please do not ignore that.But that’s not a get out of jail card for excessive person [idol/ rebbi] worship, crooked theology and successive public uturns on ikarei emuna AND your collective inability [[due to brainwash and / or lack of honesty] to face up to them.
We cannot ignore that either.Your crooked theology has [and will further] give fuel to Xtian pretenses to make unsuspecting Jews accept the messiahship [and worse] of their discredited idol.
You [plural] have never taken all those serious issues by the horns.You either joke about it. Or change topics.
Or pretend that an obvious non answer will do the job.The issues mentioned in those above lines were extensively mentioned in previous threads.
With only those above mentioned responses as a result.It seems that the source of your [plural] inability to muster anything more than the above , is your obstinate clinging to one certain persons infallibility.
Only once you will be prepared to internalize that this person was a fallible human , prone to mistakes and subject his personal negi’ot, notwithstanding his many talents and mesirut nefesh, only then we will be able to see a possibility to have REAL open and honest, evidence based discussion of all of the above.
Until then we will have to suffice with shallow responses, change of topics, misplaced claims of victimhood and occasional jokes.
But not a serious discussion.
Haval.Important Notice
What’s not under discussion here is what good habad people do all around the world.
What is under discussion here is the objectionable and abhorrent belief systems which are drilled into tamimi children and youth, who totally lose the ability to think for themselves anymore.
And used to brainwash unsuspecting baalei tshuva, making them think that this ersatz coffee created from who knows what , is really a delectable drink , far surpassing real coffee.Detestable shitot can coexist with sincere ratson to improve the world . We have to keep remembering this.
It would be a travesty to ignore the former because of the latter.It is high time that this fraudulent worldview should be exposed for what it really is.
So again – habad consists of truly wonderful people , all nebah victims of mass brainwash and total inability of independent torah based critical thought.What’s not under discussion here is what good habad people do all around the world.
What is under discussion here is the objectionable and abhorrent belief systems which are drilled into tamimi children and youth, who totally lose the ability to think for themselves anymore.
And used to brainwash unsuspecting baalei tshuva, making them think that this ersatz coffee created from who knows what , is really a delectable drink , far surpassing real coffee.
It is high time that this fraudulent worldview should be exposed for what it really is.
So again – habad consists of truly wonderful people , all nebah victims of mass brainwash and total inability of independent torah based critical thought.CS is back with her half baked lies and full baked brainwash.
Special people with shitot nebach ranging from obnoxious and detestable to outright crazy.
The last line is an apt description of this theologically proven bankrupt hasidut.
Rahmana Litslan.
@Yashardik
There was a mistake in the previous post – so here is the fixed version.
————–
They are USING hasidut and everything else to impose their rebbi on the world.Not the other way around.
It is obvious to anyone who observes them from close.
If their rebbi would tell them to stop hasidut learning.
Do you have a have amine that would not listen to him ?
For sure they would listen.
For sure they would stop learning hasidut
So what is their goal ?
their rebbi or learning hasidut?Clearly it is their leader …..
Their learning hasidut drive is just a useful tool to remake their rebbi into the greatest of all mankind since creation.The merit of truth is not because its convenient or because it ‘feels good’ or because its fuzzy … or because of any other reason.
The merit of truth is simply because it is …. the Truth .
.@Yashardik
They are USING hasidut and everything else to impose their rebbi on the world.Not the other way around.
It is obvious to anyone who observes them from close.
If their rebbi would tell them to stop hasidut learning.
Do you have a have amine that would not listen to him ?
For sure they would not.
So what is their goal ?
their rebbi or hasidut?Clearly it is their leader …..
@yashardik
Habad holds themselves superior to the Malachim too, even though they also learn and know hasidut.
There is NO ONE in habad who reckon the rebbi of the Malachim to be a ‘disappeared’ Mashiach , who will ‘reappear’ any moment.
Nor are they prepared to use him as an intermediary [al’p] to HKBH.
No matter the amount of hasidut he might have learnt and known in his lifetime ….Neither is R Aron of Strashelle z’l a candidate. Notwithstanding him reputedly being a goan mamash in hasidut.
So learning hasidut is not the issue at all.Rather this is very simple. That role is RESERVED already.
There is one God, one Torah and lehavdil elef alfei havdalot only ONE rebbe.
Although in habad the order of this last statement probably is the opposite …..
And all of us , you and me included are [allegedly] created for one purpose only – to be mekabel ol malhuto of their rebbi alenu . That is our and the whole worlds tahlit habri’ah .
Whether we or the world do or do not know it [yet] is irrelevant.
That and only that is the reason why habad considers itself superior to all of us.
@arso
I expected a serious answer …@Arso
@Neville
@lostsparkIs it true that there are 2 different Qwerty’s on this thread ?
the following was posted under the name of Qwerty, on November 7 :
—————-
I think all of you just 🤣crazy to talk about Chabad,try to be beasy with mitzvot instead so much avarot.אתם בטח כולכם אוכלי חינם,לכו לעבוד במקום לנצל את הממשלה שלכם או את ישיבות שלכם ,כולכם שקרנים וגנבים,תשתפו את הפיות שלכם לפני שמדברים על חבד,תתביישו לכם ותלכו לעזאזל בעזרת השם.תלכו למות עוד הלילה.
————–Is that the same qwerty of “checkmate fame” ?
Or a different one ?
.Ok , Both are totally wrong and definitely not part our mesorah
@Neville
I understand that kasheh
[why RAMBAM’s words suddenly stopped being relevant on that pivotal day in 1994]
, but it always just turns into a machlokes hametzius since habad are just going to deny that they ever held that way before 1994.
—————————
It is not a machloket bemetse’ut, since they have not ever denied that they held RAMBAM as the last authoritative posek for their mashiach matters.
They have not denied their own use of RAMBAM’s YAD HACHAZAKA to further their own rebbi’s candidacy.I vividly remember them using RAMBAM in service of their mashiach craziness.
So please, let’s start calling a spade a spade ….
@Menachem
You wrote : “I have clarified my position on this several times here, and I won’t change my mind.”
———————
I think I read all your posts defending habad and I do NOT recall any ‘clarification’ of your position.Would you mind to copy and paste your ‘clarification’ here ?
————————–Reminder – Question was:
habad was extremely busy trumpeting Rambam’s every word and how it corresponds oh so meticulously with their leader.
So, why did RAMBAM’s words stop being relevant on that pivotal day in 1994 …why RAMBAM’s words suddenly stopped being relevant on that pivotal day in 1994 ????
Thanks
@menachem
It was not a church session.
It was an outdoor ‘event’ comprising of xtian tourists in EY.
They were congregating outside a habad house which was showing a video of their rebbi which passersby were free to watch.
He was standing close to them, so he happened to overhear their comments.
I also happen know which habad house it was.A friend of mine was witness to a xtian group watching a habad rebbi video, whereafter the xtian leader of the group explained to the participants how a jewish rebbi becomes a jewish leader and how said rebbi’s followers proclaim him as Messiah , and how [in the xtians group leaders’ words] j must have started his own career …. and that by watching the habad leaders videos the xtians could get a true to life visual experience of their own j in action some 2000 years ago ….. .
@Neville
The following was the original post [on page 21] re habad accepting / rejecting RAMBAM’s words re mashiach
————–
Habad does not reject Rambam’s criteria for Mashiach.
Not at all.
At least until a certain day in 1994, that is.
Until that day, habad was extremely busy trumpeting Rambam’s every word and how it corresponds oh so meticulously with their leader.
So, notwithstanding Shmei’s erudition, after bakashat mehila, I don’t think he will be able to furnish you [and the rest of us] with a logical explanation why Rambam’s words stopped being relevant on that pivotal day in 1994 …
————-
The question was – and still is , until some answer will somehow appear ….why RAMBAM’s words suddenly stopped being relevant on that pivotal day in 1994 ????
That question has NOT been addressed at all, to the best of my knowledge.
Nu ???
@menachem
Is this R Moshe Dovber Rivkin you quote the same as the Rosh Yeshiva who died as a result of his refusal to put people in herem shelo kedin tora ?@menachem
I am an avid reader of your comments defending habad and I have NO RECOLLECTION of any of your comments on this particular topic . Would you mind copying and paste them here ?Some addition Re the similarity between habad and early xtians , which you mentioned in a previous post.
I fully agree with you re the similarity between them. But I would like to add that besides for the sakana of the slippery theological slope habad is standing on , besides the danger of who knows what’s next when another new generation of habad grows up who will [mistakenly] regard all of habads recent inventions as an undisputable part of mesorat yisrael.Besides that, there is another sakana , namely the devious use xtian missionaries can , will [and did already] make , when trying to convince unsuspecting naive Jews to experiment with ‘their version’ of disappearance/hiding/second coming/not dying etc.
A friend of mine was witness to a xtian group watching a habad rebbi video, whereafter the xtian leader of the group explained to the participants how a jewish rebbi becomes a jewish leader and how said rebbi’s followers proclaim him as Messiah , and how [in the xtians group leaders’ words] j must have started his own career …. and that by watching the habad leaders videos the xtians could get a true to life visual experience of their own j in action some 2000 years ago ….. .
@ non political
You are correct, I used the apikorsut and avoda zara interchangeably.
Shtika Kehoda’a is a klal to be used in our context.
Definitely so, in my opinion at least. Think about it.There are many people who read this thread even if they do not actively participate.
Who like Habad, those absolute masters of PR , who act at their leader’s directive of “Hazaka Al Ta’amula she’eino hozeret reikam” , who don’t pass any opportunity to own the mic and to be mefarsem their shitah and their view.If those [good but] loud people are suddenly quiet, it is going against their grain.
For that to happen ,there must be a reason . And a good reason.The most simple reason is, that : whatever they are going to say, will reflect badly on them. So, cut your losses and move on to a topic where I can shine.
That’s what I meant with shtikah kehoda’ah.Not that they are modeh al ha’emet in their hearts.
They are too far gone for that.
But that their silence is proof that they do not have any good answers.It depends WHY this particular person believes that a tsadiq cannot make a mistake. If it is that he thinks that HKBH shields the tsadiq from a mistaken sin, then he is not an apikorus, just an am haarets . He doesn’t know the gemara.
But if he does know the gemara , and still holds by his shita that his [!] tsadiq cannot make a mistake simply because he ‘is HKBH himself’ [afra lepumayu] , and like God by definition is infallible, so too is his[!] tsadiq, infallible
That is apikorsus.
Clear and Pashut.
@Arso
I wasn’t asking them to acknowledge defeat.
I was pointing out the klal of Shtika Kahoda’ah.
Which means that their silence is an acknowledgement of defeat, even without anyone saying anything.
They have full opportunity to answer. They choose not to.
That in itself is an acknowledgement.@non political
… ‘If He chooses to prevent someone from making a mistake He can do that’ …
=========
No one ever claimed that God cannot protect a tsadiq from sinning beshogeg.
All I said was , that THERE IS NO GUARANTEE THAT A TZADIQ cannot transgress the torah beshogeg , even if due to a mistake of theirs.
The tzadiq can sin by mistake , and we find holy Tanna’im , who did, as is clearly documented in Gmara.
Therefore, to argue otherwise is close to apikorsus, as there are clear guemarot saying the same.Habad silence is deafening ….
This seems like a clear acknowledgement of defeat ….@non political
…. one believed that Hashem is committed to guiding leaders such that they won’t make a mistake ….
———————
This is against a famous tosefot , based on guemarot, that HKBH only safeguards tzadiqim from mistakes pertaining to food ingested into their bodies, but not on any other mistakes.
That’s how holy tana’im erred and came beshogeg to isurei de’orayta.
Infallibility belongs to God only.@menachem shmei
Can we hear your take on the most recent topics brought up here ?
Is this going to be a case of shtika kehoda’ah ?Yes, it is the vast majority. .
It is logical , as that’s what their rebbi himself promoted.@qwerty
Habad does not reject Rambam’s criteria for Mashiach.
Not at all.
At least until a certain day in 1994, that is.
Until that day, habad was extremely busy trumpeting Rambam’s every word and how it corresponds oh so meticulously with their leader.
So, notwithstanding Shmei’s erudition, after bakashat mehila, I don’t think he will be able to furnish you [and the rest of us] with a logical explanation why Rambam’s words stopped being relevant on that pivotal day in 1994 …Without the idf ,now, there is a mass pikuach nefesh.
You have not given ANY OTHER WAY to take away this pikuah nefesh.So, if you cannot find another way to take away the p/n and you do not give a VALID reason not to be drafted in the idf [if they really need you] …. then you are just shofeh damim.
Shofeh damim shel Rabbim !
One of the differences between the Nevi’ei Haba’al and the Nevi’ei Emet, was the the real nevi’im were harsh towards klal yisrael, whereas the nevi’ei haba’al only complimented the yehudim.
Habad is always and invariable complimentary towards am yisrael. According to them It’s never the yehudims fault.
As opposed to their opponents- the litvishe and satmar.
That explains much of the difference between mainstream yehudim and habad when it comes to the sensitive topic of the shoa.@qwerty
The Ibn Ezrah is in Jonah 2:1 as far as I remember. Although he doesn’t say it exactly the way I quoted him.
Have a look at the Malbim, at Radak and Metsudot.
Think it is the Malbim who clearly references the lack of air.
@philosopher
Think it was you who mentioned the issue of Jonah being in such pain [not be able the breathe] for such a long time , for 3 days ? [Same about Yaakov forever]
Cf. Rashi and other commentaries who reference hazal who were medayek in the psukim that in the beginning he was inside a male fish, and Jonah did not see a need to pray, so the male fish spit him out and when he was inside the female fish , he was uncomfortable so he started praying.
It couldn’t have been too uncomfortable inside the male fish , notwithstanding the lack of air.@philosopher
A hiddush over yom Kippur :
How did Jonah Hanavih survive for 3 days in the belly of the fish , without oxygen ?
Even Ezrah says that this was a special miracle for Yonah , by HKBH that he survived for 3 days without oxygen.thus- not only is Yaakov Lo Met , but also Yonah hanavih is Lo Met ….
@philosopher
Correct and valid.Heard there is panic in habad circles .
All are saying tehilim.Apparently the owner of Gotlieb’s in Williamsburg died when Trump was meant to visit.
Now that Trump visited the ohel … their rebbi is in danger … It is a case of big sakanat pikuah nefesh ….@philosopher
So my question to you is why didn’t you tell Shmei and Arso who were arguing what the Ramban says on Rashi, why didn’t you tell them that what you told me “@philosopher Quoting RAMBAN does not convince anyone of shitat RASHI”? NOW you are saying that when I bought the complete Ramban so everyone can see exactly what the Ramban is saying?
——-
To be honest – I wasn’t following this discussion from up close as I consider it a mere distraction to the main issue. Happened to see your post so I reacted.The main issue is habads self contradictory innovations and pretzel maneuverings , cloaked in selective and misleading quotes coupled with deceptive sugarcoated statements.
Leading to …. ?
.@ARSo
…Neither the gemoro nor Rashi give any room for a second coming. So what did the Ramban have to be worried about? That the xian would say that it was yoshke even though he has died? If he would try to back his naarishkeit from the gemoro, he has no source. And if he’s going to deliberately misinterpret the gemoro, or totally ignore it, why would he care that Daniel did not make a claim?
[ARSo to yb]
—————————-
Neither the gemoro nor Rashi give any room for a second coming. [ARSo]Not quite sure what you mean here ? How is Daniel supposed to take am yisrael out of galut if he stays dead ? There has to a thiyat hameitim i.e. a ‘second coming’ ?
@philosopher
It seems that RAMBAN and R BACHAY disagree with RASHI. They are stating their own opinion, not like RASHI.@philosopher
You cannot ignore the plain meaning in RASHI.
It is clear to anyone who learns the gmara with RASHI that according to him there is a measure of life in Yaakovs original body.Breathing – no.
Pulse – no.
It has to be so subtle that embalmers do not notice.I suggested brain activity.
Which is not noticeable,
It could be something else.But it is clear in RASHI’s words that he learns this ‘measure of life’ to be in his original guf.
Not like RAMBAN and not like R BACHAY.FROM THE NEWS . ANY RELEVANCE TO OUR DISCUSSION ???
On the streets of Beirut, Hezbollah supporters are reacting in one of two ways to their leader’s death: denial or defiance.
“He is alive,” said Fatme Hosni el Age, who fled the Israeli bombing in Lebanon’s south and sought refuge in the capital.
“Everyone is saying that he is alive. They spread rumours saying he is dead, but he is alive and they hid him.”
She is one of many Hezbollah supporters the ABC spoke to who can’t believe the leader of their movement, for years a seemingly untouchable figure, was killed by Israeli air strikes on Hezbollah’s headquarters in southern Beirut on Friday.
@coffee addict
Its not ‘starting the process’ which is the issue.It’s the CLAIM which is the issue.
j claimed it [or his followers claim he claimed it] and failed his test. Shabtai tzvi claimed it and failed the test. Leader of habad claimed it and failed the test.
They all are meshichei sheker.
Period.Daniel [and / or other worthy individuals who have died] NEVER claimed it and therefore NEVER failed any test.
Think this is pashut kebe’a bekutcha.@philosopher
Quoting RAMBAN does not convince anyone of shitat RASHI.I suggest we should put aside all the personal squabbles here .
Mai Dehaveh Haveh.And concentrate on the ikar.
Is habad nowadays part of mainstream Judaism ?
Or not ?The overwhelming majority of participants on this site, think its not.
No matter that they have their own private , personal disagreements.
Which are in greater scheme of things , insignificant.Let’s maybe rephrase the original question.
Given the past trajectory of nowadays habad , where do you think its theological position will be in ten , twenty, fifty or a hundred years from now ?
Provided the real mashiach will not have come yet.Don’t forget, habad of the future will consist of today’s babies who never met the real flesh and blood human with his foibles , and who will be brainwashed by an education based on fanatical narrow minded misinterpretations of the torah and hazal.
Food for thought.
Yakov would not be ‘in a deep sleep’ because how didn’t the embalmers notice his breathing ?
And his pulse ?
It says they thought him being dead ?It could be that his brain was functioning bederech nes without oxygen supply, and that was the measure of life within his body.
Thats why it does not say vayamat.