yankel berel

@somejew

…those poskim who disagree with the above two issurim of Vayoel Moshe DO NOT disagree with the fundamental principals ……. that we kosher Jews continue to pray three times a day for its state’s peaceful destruction (amen, kain yehi rutzon).

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sheker vechazav

those poskim – the overwhelming majority of talmidei hahamim by the way – pray that all of our errant brothers in charge of the state should have a change of heart and that the power of the erliche yidden within the state should exceed the power of the wicked people , and that all of the inhabitants of the state should merit to live in peace and security until mashiach comes.

ITS A HUTSPAH TO PUT WORDS INTO OTHER PEOPLES MOUTHS AGAINST THEIR WILL.
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Will quote the meshech hohma in full bezrat hashem

Soon we will be confronted with a generation asher lo yadah et yosef.

All they will know about their rebbi is from the propaganda machine idolizing him as the greatest person to have ever walked this earth.

Those people who still remember his as any other human with his foibles and issues , will be gone.
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Have a look at Meshech Hohma parashat shemot , about moshe rabenu ‘being great be’einei avdei par’oh ube’einei ha’am ‘
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It is very hard for satmar to ask for protection under hilchot lashon hara and kibud talmidei hahamim when they themselves don’t offer their own opponents said protection .

@ard

bottom line . ard is doling out tickets to gehinnom.

But not across the board.

When the gdoley yisrael manhigim and yo’atsim of aguda are called a disgrace, ard is extremely quiet.

But when leadership of satmar [not clear whether the intention is towards lay leadership or rabbinic leadership] , then ard comes out in full force and notifies us in BOLD LETTERING , no less , that we won a one way trip to gehinnom.

It seems that he is [self]appointed as guardian of sha’arei gehinnom.

Ard knows who is and who isn’t admitted.

How does he know that ?
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Does he have inside [!] knowledge of what goes on there ?

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How would he ??
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But of course nobody would ever support the establishment of a “State” that is a violation of the Oaths ….
[katan]
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LOL.

nobody … besides the posek hador the heiliger avnei nezer zatsal.

based on rambam ‘s yad , on tur , on shulchan aruch , on gemara ktuvot.

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@sechel83

According to my sources, habad has burnt r deutchs books in a public bonfire.

Habad is very big and varied, so the news would not necessarily have gotten to your ears.

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besides this , you write that r deutch is AGAINST habad because he expresses fear about the dangers habad faces ….

I would not charachterise this as against .
Not at all . I would call that rather “PRO habad” .

He , as a real habadi , is concerned about where ‘his’ movement coulld end up .

A mother concerned for her sons future is not AGAINST him.
The bigger the connection with her son , the greater the concern about his future.

A stranger might dismiss her concerns. Because the stranger does not have that connection.

So , ironically the one who defends habad is really not concerned about habad. They could not care less what ideological or theolgical hell hole habad ends up ,

whereas the one ‘attacking’ habad , aderaba , is the one deeply connected to the original and true habad and therefore also deeply concerned about its [common sense] future.

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Have news for you – habad as a movement is slowly going OTD . As long as they are incapable [or unwilling] to squarely confront its demons in the closet.

That is their only hope for salvation.

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@ard

Ok . So lets rephrase it to make it fit better with the original intention of my post.

If it is permitted to call the leadership of agudas yisroel under the Zionist State [48-25] a ‘general disgrace’ [as per somejew] ,meaning the collective gdolim who led AY, then this moniker would fit better to satmar’s current leadership.

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@ard

….. when discussing the general disgrace that is the leadership of agudas yisroel under the Zionist State.
[part of original quote by somejew]
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“… the leadership of agudas yisroel under the Z state . ”

Meaning the successive and collective mo’etset gdolei hatorah [plus the other non members of the mo’etses] who guided agudas yisroel from 1948 till 2025 .

They supposedly are a ‘general disgrace’ …. according to somejew .

Which does not earn any tickets to gehinnom. According to ard , at least.

Only calling the leadership of [nowadays] satmar a disgrace . This is the only way , again according to ard at least , to gain acceptance in gehinnom.

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Talking about efah ve’efah …….
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Looked through the index at the end of Vyoel Moshe .

The majority of the quotes are from aggada sefarim and from agada portions of the halacha sfarim.

Even when vayoel moshe discusses halacha , it reminds me a bit of the hadrat panim anti shaving sefer .

Both had their conclusion neatly defined, well in advance of their research.

just keep daven and 19812262 will receive some seichel min hashamayim

@somejew

if there is a disgrace its the leadership of satmar

Brisker Rav zatsal did NOT agree that everything SR wrote in his sefer is halacha

He thought that SR was doing worthwhile things in fighting against the tsunami of Z which was engulfing yehudim all over the world in those yrs.

I heard from many sources , and it is well known that BR advised frum members of knesset how to vote in the plenum. Which SR would never even dream of doing.

@aheimisher
The Rebbe Shlita deliberately didn’t have haskamos like many other great Rebbes, like the Baal HaTanya, Reb Tzaddok HaKohen, Reb Nachman of Breslov etc.
[aheimisher to yb]

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Ba’al HaTanya, R Tsaddok , R Nachman etc did not write on halacha.

Shulch Aruch Harav was written at the express instruction of his Rebbi the Maggid.
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SR did not ask for haskama because he was sure he would not get one.

That is the cold reality.
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@aheimisher

@Yaakov Yosef

Three shavu’ot are not mentioned in Rambam’s Yad
Not mentioned in Tur
Not mentioned in Sh’u’Aruch

A clear temi’ah , a clear question.

Posed by the Heiliger Posek HaDor , the Avnei Nezer zatsal .

In his halacha lema’ase sefer Shut Avnei Nezer.

Wherefrom he paskins halacha lema’aseh that the three shavu’ot are not halacha, they are divrei hagada , hashuv in their own right, but not halacha lema’ase.

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So we can , relying on avnei nezer hanal
safely state that

fact is that
the whole of vayoel moshe is a compendium of mostly aggadic materiel used to leharchik et ha’adam min haresha’im bekamah drachim.

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The thrust of and the intent of the SR writings and activities, were all – to blunt the hashpa’a of Z .

This was a political and social war or rather campaign which consumed a very big part of life.

He marshalled every resource available in this fight.

Even divre drush and hagada were a good resource.
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Not speaking ivrit was a tool in this fight.

Proving there is no mitsva of yishuv EY was another tool in this fight.

Blowing up the 3 shavu’ot was another one.

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It is as clear as day that SR first decided that Z is treif and only afterwards wrote vayoel moshe and al hagueoula ….
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ujm:
The Messianic congregation Yaron Lischinsky belonged to seeks to recruit Jews to Yushke worship.

This is who Israel gives visas to immigrate
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Thanks to ujm somejew and their ilk who do not participate in the Israeli elections….

The medina would have been much more jewish if all religious voters , voted.

Not voting is also voting.

It is a vote for those who seek to recruit jews to yoshke.

Same counts for WZO .

So the message to ujm :

If you complain , first do so in front of the mirror.
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@aheimesher

Normative halachik practice, thousands of years old do not change, even by an unproven [or proven] estimate of 1/4 of klal yisrael.
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fact is that
there are no haskamot to vayoel moshe

fact is that
there is no written give and take between the mechaber and any of the other gdolei talmidei hahamim of the generation kedarka shel torah , like we find by any major deliberation in torah like by our truly great like r akiva eiger , noda beyehuda etc etc

fact is that
one cannot base halaha on feelings , how righteous they may be.

fact is that
the subject of STRIPPING MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE FROM THEIR PIKUACH NEFESH PROTECTIONS is an extremely weighty halachik subject .

fact is that
satmar rav used intimidation tactics when arguing with other talmidei hahamim and gdolei yisrael on this subject.

fact is that
the whole of vayoel moshe is a compendium of mostly aggadic materiel used to leharchik et ha’adam min haresha’im bekamah drachim.

fact is that
It was not accepted as halaha by the overwhelming majority of gdolei talmidei hahamim in klal yisrael.

fact is that
One cannot base halaha on hagada.

fact is that
Avnei Nezer very clearly disagrees with vayoel moshe.

fact is that
steipler very clearly disagrees with vayoel moshe.

fact is that
It is mutar al pi hahalaha to exaggerate in order to stop your talmidim from associating with bad elements .
Cf hafets haim hilchot lashon hara.

fact is that
despite the claims by its author , vayoel moshe was not meant to be taken literally, only leharchik et haadam min harsha’im.

fact is that
satmar shitah , despite its noble origins and intentions, when taken literally , makes a caricature of our holy torah.
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Are there tshuvot from SR to other gdolei yisrael back and forth re this pivotal stripping of p/n protection of millions based only on where they live ?

Like all other weighty she’elot in halacha bemeshech all dorot of weighty rabbinnic decision making ?????

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Is it true that rebbi / talmid disagreements are valid and can be found in gemara rishonim poskim and aharonim all thru jewish history ? Y or N ?

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@somejew

the whole of vayoel moshe is a compendium of mostly aggadic materiel used to leharchik et ha’adam min haresha’im.

It was not accepted as halaha by the overwhelming majority of gdolei talmidei hahamim in klal yisrael.

It is not meant to be taken literally.

It is mutar al pi hahalaha to exaggerate in order to stop your talmidim from associating with bad elements .
Cf hafets haim hilchot lashon hara.

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One cannot base halaha on feelings , how righteous they may be.

Nor on hagada.

halaha is based on proven hochachot from gemara rishonim and poskim.

And has to be accepted by klal yisraels poskim and gdolei yisrael.
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Al achat kama vekama when the subject is STRIPPING MILLIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE FROM THEIR PIKUACH NEFESH PROTECTIONS.

Your approach to pikuach nefesh protection stripping would amount to a bad joke, if it would not be plain dangerous.

Never in the history of klal yisrael had we a mass pikuach nefesh question approached with such flippancy.

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Thank you to somejew .

At least we see the yawning chasm between those who take the SR writings literally [i.e. most of satmar nowadays]

and the rest of klal yisrael, who still have a strong sense of reality plus achrayut for the life and well being of their brothers and sisters.
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Menachem the expert on habad is hereby invited to give his professional, truthful explanation of the complete story.

Would like to say “unbiased” expert, but can’t.
Menachem is not only biased in how slanted he presents the details. He is even biased in what he addresses and in what he omits.

Any unpleasant , uncomfortable issue he omits.

And then he claims that it is omitted , because he happens to be ‘not in the mood’ ….. .
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This is a very valid question.

Katan from far off chul condemned the innocent ahenu yoshvei erets yisrael to total victimhood by barbaric monsters, just to fit his narrowminded parroted ideology.

He is using divrei mussar re hitbadlut me resha’im to be halacha lema’aseh mafkir damam shel yisrael.

His thick skull cannot grasp the difference between those two totally different worlds.

The world of mussar and agada , and the world of halacha lema’aseh .
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We pray and hope that the RBSH’O will be chonen him some dei’a.

What I find very difficult , is the speech Shumer gave , explaining his support of arms embargoes against Israel during a seven front war .

He sourced inter alia Satmar shitah.

Official Satmar kept quiet about that and did not protest at the usage of their shitah to deny 8 million innocent Jews living in EY, lifesaving defensive equipment.

I cannot understand how they could do that .
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Lo ta’amod al dam rei’acha does not appear in their sifre torah ???
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