yankel berel

re graduates from IDF …

I read a quote in the newspapers , coming from RZ educators themselves , saying that 30 % of their students lose their religion in the IDF

and that they still encourage their youth to enlist

because that price [of 30%] is a price worthwhile to pay for such an overarching ideal …..

—

I am shivering while typing such a crooked and outrageous statement

but there you have it

—- from their mouth themselves : it’s THIRTY PERCENT !!!
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@ujm

the steipler devoted every ounce of his energy and considerable intellect to one thing : to the master and discover the intricacies of the torah and to write his sefarim

all the rest – including the public statements re public policy were nothing more than an unwelcome and forced distraction

he had zero interest in differentiating between the various political positions of various groups nor about their accurate descriptions

besides , many in those times called the edah people with the title of ‘neturei karta’ …

any OBJECTIVE and UNBIASED reader of his letter , when considering the context ,

will see his objective in this letter

what was the message the steipler was conveying ?

that those who prohibit voting are chashuv , chaviv and should not change their postion.

that’s it .

vetu lo midi ….
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it seems from ujm’s comments that he does not want to classify as an UNBIASED observer …..

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@aaq

you are persisting in your naivete

because … you really are

you can have access to all the books and material to be published from sheshet yemei breshit untill the very end of days

and you will still totally miss the point

as long as you do not take that one , most important point , into account

the same point all the so called peace makers in the middle east are missing

and that is …

REALITY !

instead of looking at reality from your own biased , distorted and rose colored glasses

and predicating your solutions on what you falsely perceive to the reality

you have to see reality as what it really is , instead of what you wish it to be

and only then start formulating your responses

as long as we don’t agree about the facts on the ground , meaning reality as it really is ,

we will be unable to move the discussions any further

and I will have to suffice with deploring your excessive [and willful ? ] naivete
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@yaakov yosef

the way I heard – cannot vouch for accuracy

that the real hasidishe yidden sat by rav kook whereas the ashkenazi yidden sat by rav sonnefeld
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@mdd1

somejew is continuing to equate a legitimate hatsalat nefashot activity to avoda zara

what planet is he living in ?

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Why is ujm repeating the same canard again and again , when it is obvious from the whole context of the letter that the steipler was referring to the hevrei ha ‘eda hacharedit ???

and not at all to any neturei karta

not from then , and not from now ???
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@chaim

it is clear that the yeshiva bachur when put in a forced framework like the army , experiences a yerida .

even if , and that’s not a given , if people do learn there and do daven there ,

that does not mean that they are not experiencing a yerida .

the intent of the left wing crooks who sit on the plum chairs in the court rooms and legal offices is simple

they want to remake our future educators and our future heads of households

closer to their own image

only a fool or a liar would argue against that

which in turn will guarantee the following generation

to be modified even further

even a thousand heart warming stories about mesirut nefesh on behalf of the soldiers

will not change these stark facts

this is a battle of wills

they can take away subsidies , illegally kidnap our youth , and harrass innocents on our streets

but they will never break our resolve

ki am kshei oref hu …..
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AAQ is persisting in his naivete …..
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@AAQ

I fully concur with yaakov yosef’s post addressed to you .

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@simcha

this gzera of forced enlistment and arrests of innocents is plainly illegal and

renders those commanding the arrests liable as kidnappers

there is no law on the books authorising those arrests

and conversely there is a law on the books regulating the deferment of torah learners

anyone believing otherwise has fallen for a fraud engineered by crooks masquerading as legal experts
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Why is ujm repeating the same canard again and again , when it is obvious from the whole context of the letter that the steipler was referring to the hevrei ha ‘eda hacharedit ???

and not at all to any neturei karta

not from then , and not from now ???
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if steipler was referring to them , how does that figure into the question of voting which is the sole and clear subject of the letter ???

it as clear as day that his intent was the chevrei haeda and

NOT the neturei karta as they are known to us , historical or contemporary
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the issur of machloket does not translate into

an issur on alternative thought , or

an issur on fact based criticism

otherwise you reduce all thinking human beings into nothing more than consenting robots
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so the question of sin’at hinam is totally unconnected to our discussion
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@somejew

simcha is not an evil man

simcha is a mistaken man
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have not forgotten

will post bln
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@yakov yosef

bet you that ujm will not answer ….
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@aaq

we should not be ‘choosing’ at all …

all yehudim are precious

after all , doesnt it say ‘ma chazi dama didach sumak tfei” ?

and even the so called ‘insincere’ people are also included in the above

on the other hand , this does not make aberrations, part of judaism , either
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we should not be

@AAQ

there is no written tshuva from him re the issue you mention .

there are reports of an oral one .

that was not a psak as such , as far as I understand

that was an etsa , an advice ,

by the way , from a klal yisrael perspective , with the benefit of hindsight , it was sound advice …
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@somejew

your last post got me to laugh

the unsavory tactics of demonstrating together with people whose hands are stained with Jewish blood

and participating in Iranian holocaust denying conferences

are considered unsavory by 99.9 % of orthodox jews

ranging across the whole spectrum , from satmar to mizrachi

from talmidei hahamim gedolim umuflagim to amharatsim gemurim

this [by the way correct] view is held by all of the above , long before my words were posted

and will stay the same after your defense of their underhanded tactics will be long forgotten already

it is not motsi shem ra , nor is it lashon hara

this is pashut to anyone who is part of the 99.9 %
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@somejew

I was referring to actions – not to ideology

the actions of demonstrating together with people stained by Jewish blood is UNSAVORY .

Yes .

Definitely .

whether they are of the same ideology or not, is totally immaterial .
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@aaq

WW2 started september 1939 with germany and then soviet russia attacking poland

mir , in eastern poland was conquered by the soviets

the yeshiva fled mir which was under soviet occupation towards vilna in october 1939 after receiving a clear psak [!] from rav ch’o that they should even be mehalel shabat to do so

rch’o took the initiative to send telegrams to the yeshivot under soviet occupation at the time

vilna was also under soviet occupation at the time

but r’ch’o was told that vilna would be handed over to the then still free and neutral Lithuanian government

which actually happened a few weeks after the yeshivot arrived in vilna

the question of yeshivat mir fleeing from vilna to the far east came up later , after the soviet occupation of free lithuania in the summer of 1940

that was during the period lithuania was occupied by the soviets for the period around one year between the soviet invasion during the summer 1940 and the nazi invasion during june 1941

during that year the yeshiva was grappling with the question about applying to the soviets for exit visas

and that was after r’ch’o was niftar already

at no point was there any ‘psak’ from anyone either way , re the advisability of filing requests to exit the communist ‘paradise’ .
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as an aside –

on the domestic scene —

the religious in Israel are innocent victims of … prejudiced lawfare by biased crooks masquerading as judges and legal experts

—

and ironically …. on the international scene —-

exactly the same :

Israel is the innocent victim of …. prejudiced lawfare by biased crooks masquerading as judges and legal experts

midah keneged midah , hashgacha peratit ……
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@AAQ

the very future of our nation is under threat

this is no joking matter at all

this illegal and immoral decree has to be resisted by all [peaceful] means possible without letup until complete victory
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@AAQ

your naivete is shining through again …

to quote such a groundbreaking sefer ha ikarim from a ‘secondary source’ without verifying that it actually does say such a huge hidush in an unambiguous way , is plain naive ….

this is not meant as a mean comment …

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this is a milhemet mitsva – not to agree to forced enlistment

and we cannot back down .

ish et re’ehu yazoru ule’achiv yomar chazak !

et l’asot lashem !
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@yaakov yosef

I am not serious ….

I cannot stand ideological straightjackets .

posters like katan and somejew from one side and posters like evalemoshiv and square on the other side

all have their agendas and they push them irrespective of the real world realities and the inevitable consequences their so called solutions will engender

they are doing so blindly and therefore are dangerous

baruch hashem we still have special people amongst us gdolei yisrael who can help us navigate these very difficult issues.

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