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@qwerty
Their theology does not have to align with facts . Maybe that is included in the motto of ‘lehathila ariber’ ?
Meaning – we will not be ‘gores’ any obstacles, if they come and obstruct our path in avodat hashem [or avodat harebbi] .
Which is an understandable and admirable approach.
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But ….
Inconvenient facts could also sometimes function as obstacles , or not ?@qwerty
just for the record – even those two inventions [1. not dying at all or 2. yes dying but being more alive as a result of dying] were clearly rejected by habad pre 94 .
Not just rejected , but being proclaimed as going against ikarei emuna .
Because mashiach HAD to be from the living AND the present , which axiomatically guaranteed that their rebbi would not die or even ‘disappear’ before leading us all definitively out of the galut.
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Which was obviously proven wrong by the harshest judge of all – Reality…..
.@sechel
Dont falsify history .
They clearly said that he has to be from the living and cannot be from the dead . I remember it .
Its all over Kfar habad newspaper and articles by leading habad rabbanim and Mashpi’im .
R Shach accused them of apikorsus already before the mashiach debacle started . No connection .
If those who say mashiach cant be from the dead are kofrim , then habad pre 94 are kofrim and the ramban too .
Honesty morai verabotai . Honesty ….@Qwerty
The glaring inconsistencies of modern habad theology are so glaring that it serves as a perfect example of ‘en adam ro’eh et mumei atsmo’.
Besides, the fallacy of the equation of criticism of modern habad theology with sin’at hinam, reminds me of the leftists in Israel employing so called ‘demoktratsia’ as a rallying cry for their troops.
In fact , arguments about our mesorah , serve as an iron guarantor of the veracity of said mesorah . Imagine impostors through the ages , attempting to corrupt it . They would be greeted by howls of protest. Those very howls of protest are the surest indicator that no corruption occurred. And are not at all an indicator of so called ‘sin’at hinam’ [chvsh].
It is perfectly possible to criticize habad theology and still love the habad hasidim .MisheMetu Hananye Misha’el Ve Azarya Batla Ruach HaKodesh [Gmara Yuma , Sanhedrin]
Half of my posts are not published .
Why ?@anypotato
“….It’s not shayach b’metzius for a Rishon acharon or posek halacha to rule against Moshiach coming from the meisim…..”
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So pray tell , how was it shayech for ALL habad rabbanim mashpi’im and their rebbe that it is impossible to have mashiach come from the meisim ?@alwaysask
The issue is NOT whether R Moshe’s psakim are universally accepted or not.
The issue is whether he is universally RESPECTED .
Whether he should be mentioned as Moshe Feinstein or rather [as should be] R Moshe Feinstein .
That was the topic under discussion .
My point is that UNIVERSALLY he is quoted with respect , as R Moshe .
As opposed to Moshe.
And that this respect is MANDATORY , not voluntary .
Not depending on readers preference .
Not depending on expediency . .
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And that ONLY in one specific circle that respect is not there .
For a reason .
Which happens to be the main bone of contention between them and all the rest of klal yisrael.@alwaysask
Ayen Darke Moshe Hearuch OC 472:3 in name of Terumat Hadeshen and mechaber hilchot kvod rabo [YD] ,re status of gadol hador / chacham muflag , that they are like rabo muvhak .
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R moshe is accepted as qualifying for the above , so the appellation of Reb / or rabbi / or rav , is mandatory in his case, not voluntary, nor depending on readers preference.
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seems to me , based on my experience at least , that in all circles in klal yisrael [from satmar to mizrachi , from hasid to mitnaged , from sefaradi to ashkenazi] , whether they agree on a specific issue or not , this appellation is universally employed.
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Besides for one circle ….@any potato
Sorry , but habad lost their ne’emanut in these matters a long time ago .
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It is crystal clear to any impartial bystander that they have one goal and one goal only . And that they are determined to get there , no matter the cost , no matter the acrobatics .
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There is a source to totally negate the whole mashiach from the dead idea , MUCH MORE POWERFUL AND CONVINCING that any ramban or r akiva or other relatively ‘small’ people [evidently meant sarcastically].
HABAD itself , based on the greatest human who ever tread on this Earth , all its rabbanim mashpi’im and its chozer have conclusively determined that it is AXIOMATIC in the Jewish Religion that mashiach comes only from the living .
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Who has any use for any ‘sefer’ printed in lakewood when it has the chutspa to disagree with all of the above ?
Can’t understand how you can even think differently ….@anypotato
This not merely a quote as a record of what Ramban happened to say in an argument with a Min .
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THIS IS A QUOTE OF WHAT RAMBAN HIMSELF WROTE FOR THE JEWS , AND EXPRESSLY DISTRIBUTED TO THE JEWS – AS PROPER HASHKAFA.
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Without any ‘manipulation’ for his own benefit [chvsh].
The Emet as it is ….
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“We know he is not mashiach because he died and the nevua of the nevi’im did not materialise in his lifetime .” [Leshono HaTahor Shel Rabban Shel Yisrael HaRamban Zatsal]
.@zaphod
who said that, that ‘ someone else ‘ has to exist now ?
the main thing here is that the mitsva should not become batel .
why should there be a difference [from the mitsva’s viewpoint] between ‘presently existing’ options compared to ‘future existing options’ . In both cases the mitsve is not abandoned . There is a viable realistic option of kiyum hamitsva in both cases .
seems that r elchonon ztsal meant the above , or not ?
besides the point , am not sure about the two tsdadim of the she’ela , isnt it just playing with words ?
am happy to be enlightened here@anypotato
….then say we reject him because he died without bringing the redemption as a fraud and grotesque manipulation of the truth and an insult to the martyrs who died Al kiddish Hashem…..
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Thats exactly what the RMBAN writes .
We know he is not mashiach because he died and the nevua of the nevi’im did not materialise in his lifetime .
The Ramban was not ‘manipulating the truth’ chvsh . Neither did he ‘insult’ the martyrs .
I happen to know , however, of some other people attempting to manipulate the truth .
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Manipulating the truth for their own benefit .@always ask
I ‘ll let you in in to a secret . The guy who said Moshe Feinstein [without rav] was a habad hasid .
Don’t tell me rubbish that he meant it similar to Hillel and Shammai.
Would he also say Menachem Mendel , like Hillel or Shammai ?
Or would he say ‘the rebbe’ ?
So why is R Moshe any different ??
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Sh’A says Lo Yikra Et Rabo BiShmo . And gadol Hador Kmo Rabo Muvhak . You do not call your parent by their first name either .
Alef Bet.@ arso
Can someone cite for me the first source for the celebration of 20 Kislev being due to the Baal Hatanya being taken to the misnaged’s house?It seems so strange – according to the story he said that the hours he spent in the misnaged’s house were worse than the entire time he spent in prison – to have a MAJOR celebration based on that. Furthermore, it seems so out-of-sync with today’s Lubavich and their claimed love of every Yid.
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Question back – Re ahavat yisrael .Who does a habad hasid love more ? a mechalel shabbat [even shana upiresh] or a frum ‘mitnaged’ ?
.They say that the first mesirah in vilna was from the hasidi ‘s side . As the Kahal belonged to the mitnagdim since they won the elections [that was in the beginning] . And the hasidim were the underdog ,and suffered under the kahal . So the hasidim ran to the government . So as reaction the mitnagdim also ran to the government . Thats how the baal hatanya ended up in jail .
Cannot vouch , however, for the accuracy of this chain of events .
Be it as it may , this is only history and b’h totally irrelevant nowadays .
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Since then we had many generations of hasidim and non hasidim living side by side in harmony , and even many times fruitfully cooperating for the common good .
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Any arguments about modern habad theology is a totally different issue and not connected to this historical saga.@ always ask
You mean
According to the Sh’A preferences [- meaning the RBSH’O ‘s preferences ……]
Appellation of R is mandated by Sh”A .
Not optional .
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Neither to satisfy ‘readers preferences’ .
No difference whether the towns name is following the first name, or not .
This is Accepted all over klal yisrael .
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Met someone in shul a few months ago , a very nice guy , a talmid chacham , was discussing some halacha with him and in the middle of the conversation he tells me the following – you know Moshe Feinstein writes about this ….
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Was SHOCKED to hear his name mentioned without appellation…..
.@Emunas1
Thanks for your post .
appreciated it very much .@qwerty
yes@ menachem
The GroupMind you , the above sicha about the chazon ish was said on Purim 1956 .
Merely Five years after he became the rebbi of the habad hasidim .
He was only fifty four years old at the time .
@menachem
REALLY TO ALLI took Menachems advice and was not relying on mere ‘hearsay’ as it was quoted to me by the habad hasid in EY [who claimed that there is a part of the sicha which is NOT PRINTED and only for PNIMI , only for habad consumption] but checked it out in torat menachem itself ,and want to share with the readership here the bottom line of the sicha
1] The chazon ish missed out on learning tanya
2] Therefore Chazon ish , now in olam ha’elyon , is jealous of a simple student of the habad yeshiva
3] The chazon Ish is standing now , begging to be let in to hear this simple student learning tanya, but he is refused entry and has to stay outside
4] seemingly there is no hope for him – ever,
but 5] after Thchiyat hametim when mashiach [! – guess who THAT is …] will teach the pnimiyut of the torah , then EVEN the chazon ish will be permitted to enter to hear and learn from mashiach [! – again ,guess who THAT is ….].
6] that is how the passuk ‘ki lo yidach mimemu kol nidach’ [which customarily is invoked as teaching that even the greatest sinner will merit olam haba] will be fulfilled …..
.I will leave an empty space here for the reader to fully digest what was said here .
And to fully digest what the desired and obvious results of these words are ….@ Always ask questions
RAV Chaim voloziner – not chaim voloziner
Psak Sh’A YD .@menachem
R Chaim was not habad . In non habad context , you are right .
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In habad context – reality proves you wrong .
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This a unique habad phenomenon .
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It is a pattern , obvious to all non partisan people .
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As mentioned in previous posts , you are biased and therefore cannot sit in judgement on your own ‘father’ in this regard [even though you spent countless hours learning his words]
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You cannot fathom [the obvious] that he would manipulate his hasidim to apply those concepts to him , himself .
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Ki Ha Shochad Ye’aver ……hello ?
@qwerty
you’r hilarious@cs
Amen
vechen lemar
from this post of yours I see that my previous post was not misplaced
thanks
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btw this is proof that criticism of modern habad is NOT sin’at chinam . Not at all .@arso
thanks@ menachem
And the joke is that Chabad tries to sell us on the idea that the Rebbe was anav mikal adam.How is looking at your Rebbes as the greatest leaders a contradiction to anivus? Is believing that Judaism is the greatest and truest religion a contradiction to anivus?
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All depends on whether their rebbe himself guided them towards ‘looking at them as the greatest leaders’ , or not .
In the case of the chafets chaim and the gra the answer is self evident . In some other cases ….@menachem
[Quote]
I didn’t say it about “those who have kashas on Lubavich”. I said it to explain my occasional silence on this thread (to answer the childish claim of “shtika k’hodaa (no, I don’t ch”v mean that the klal is childish. I mean that it’s childish to apply it to this context)).My point is very simple: Over the 26 pages of this thread, it is quite obvious that (some of) the opponents to Lubavitch on this thread (especially yankel and qwerty) are staunchly opposed to Lubavitch, and will attack (almost) any argument that I make.
Honestly, the same is the other way around: I am staunchly Lubavitch, and I’ll probably disagree with (almost) any attack against Lubavitch made here on the thread.
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Stop , stop please . Misunderstanding . Am NOT attacking habad as a whole.
Only certain aspects of it . They are our brothers and do have a lot to offer . Hope that’s abundantly clear from all my posts until now . Repeating this here ‘lehotsi miliban …
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This is the reason why this thread (and many other similar threads) are just going in circles with endless arguments and questions. Questions that are really meant as תירוצים for explaining the “problems with Lubavitch” or the “maalos of Lubavitch” (from each side respectively).
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Here we get to the kernel of the issue .
we are NOT discussing the ma’ala vs. the chisaron of habad . Far from it . If you think that , you are missing the point . The ma’ala is agreed on .
The argument is whether there is something problematic here [irrespective of the maala] or not . We say there is , you say there is not .
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Therefore, when I’m being pummeled by dozens of questions on many different ideas, and I know that most of what I say won’t actually change the minds that are already set – I’m not really interested in working on answering every single question.To say that this implies some sort of admission of guilt is ridiculous.
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“Shtika ke hoda’a” is referring to specific arguments made , specific questions , when they are met by the chief habad defendants on this thread , menachem and nomesorah , with either totally ridiculous assertions , sidestepping [nomesorah] or ‘retreat to the bunker’ tactics [menachem].Again , not regarding habads ma’alot [of which there are many] . But of habads Chesronot or problems . When REPEATEDLY the issues are not dealt with .
The question is – why are they not dealt with ?Obvious reply is , there IS NO ADEQUATE ANSWER . Hence Shtika Ke Hoda’a ….
Now – according to Menachem there is a rebuttal – R Chaim !R Chaim absolves us from answering , because the kushiyot are teirutsim .
If someone can make head or tail of this argument , please , I am all ears ….
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P.S. Regarding your later point:I agree that Lubavitchers have an agenda. They feel that their derech will immensely improve the avodas Hashem of all Yidden, which is why they feel the need to spread it to anyone they come in contact with (however, I disagree with many of your examples).
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[As a Side point]
Problem is that there are strings attached to their derech .
Acceptance of a ‘personality centered ‘ avoda . As opposed to a ‘Boreh centered’ avoda .
Acceptance of totally illogical twists and turns ,designed to further their own position ,while trampling on time honored and commonsense traditions .
Acceptance of innovations and inverted realities .
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Same derech of habad – without any of the above would find nearly no resistance .
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BOTTOM LINE
There are valid questions raised in this thread – with NO VALID ANSWERS ….
If there are answers out there, please …..
Is it Shtika KeHoda’a ? Or Not ?@emunas1
Agree@arso
will try bln to check
you probably saw menachems reply.@menachem
Thanks@qwerty
Simple . Question is whether the so called ‘looking down’ is a hasid initiated practice or initiated milema’ala.
If said sicha is true … , that is .
Hope that makes sense.To the group
One of the topics on this thread is whether habad is ‘looking down’ on other groups . Or not .
Can add some possible relevant info .
Once spoke to a habadi hasid in EY . He told me the following .
When the Chazon Ish was niftar in 1953 . the Rebbi of Habad spoke in public about him .
Not by name . He said that there was an address to where many, many letters were sent to . And many people were answered at that address .
That is all good and fine, but we habad hasidim should remember . Even a pashute yid who learns hasidut is more important than him .
This sicha , he told me, was not printed , but remained , pnimi, internal between the habad hasidim .
End of quote.
Do with this what you want . Dismiss it . Or not.
Am only relating what I heard from a habad hasid.
If this is known to anyone , would like hear more detail …A) I am not Chabad….
Irrelevant to the discussionB) Most people don’t care about theology. When it is printed in some public forum, most people read right past it.
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Theology promulgated by your rabbanim and backed by your rebbi ? Theology regarding identity of mashiach ? theology re timing of his coming ? theology re existence of nevua ?
Come On ……
Seems like am older than you and have seen more than you .
Remember those times myself . ALL RELIGIOUS JEWS followed the escalating pronouncements from 770.
This argument reminds of a cave man who has never seen the sun trying to convince the guy standing outside that the sun does not exist .
I WAS THERE . I LIVED THROUGH THOSE TIMES . I MYSELF ….. You are telling me whether people were or were not paying attention ….Totally Absurd .C) Associating ideas (Such as the reebe is moshiach.) with theological notions, is not theology. It is polemics or propaganda. Or it has another meaning. This thinking tool is so crucial to any conversation about the Ikkarim, that I doubt you have any real grasp on them.
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So here you are at odds with the habad rabbanim mashpi’im and their rebbe himself . They used theology . they based it on theology . They proved it from theology .D) I think that when one only sees emunah problems by one group of yidden, that it is hate.
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Circular argument . Your statement is only valid if at the conclusion of the argument it has been established that they be’emet have no ‘problems’ [as you call them] and one still ‘sees’ clear non existent problems.E) My understanding is that prophecy is always attainable. The fact that we are lacking in even one prophet giving directives to others, doesn’t have any significance to me.
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Last recorded nevua I know of is Chagai Zecharia and Malachi.
Am happy to be updated with more [concrete names and dates please plus acceptance by klal yisrael]F) I understand most of The Rebbe’s teachings in a kabbalistic sense. I don’t know what you think about them.
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the relevant ‘teachings’ to this discussion [time of mashiachs arrival , identity of mashiach , nevua] are not kabbalistic at all .G) I see Lubavitcher teachings as a whole much more traditional then most other groups.
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How The other teachings ‘are seen’ is a matter of opinion [they might be seen by other people the same or different] and in my eyes irrelevant here . The issue I mentioned are those mashiach / nevua pronouncements mentioned before , and they are clearly ‘not traditional ‘.H) Not every word of Torah that is taught is intended to fit with every other word that was ever taught.
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So ?And this is were Chabad is getting hit from both sides. When there is an internal rational for something that Chabad is already doing, (Like not sleeping in the sukkah.) then it is seen as an affront to others, Why don’t you realize that it is merely a justification for what they do, and is not intended for others (that do sleep in the sukkah)?
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never mentioned anything about the sukka , [although it is problematic]But then when Chabad spreads their core teachings that most groups are oblivious to, then it is “don’t you realize that we are not Chabad”?!?! So then why did you assume that the other stuff applied to you. (Chabad isn’t going around that others should not sleep in the sukkah to bring the geulah.)
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again , never mentioned anything about that either [although I understand where they are coming from ]And what is even funnier, is that you have a whole bunch of missionaries on this site, for Zionism, Anti Zionism, College Degrees, No Secular Education, Republicans, Democrats, Trump, and nobody tells them these are not important in my crowd. Comes along a Lubavitcher and hints to how moshiach will enlighten the world, and all of a sudden, it’s how dare you bring that up to us! We know that an Anti Zionist, Democrat like Trump with no secular education is what the world really needs!!!!!!!!!!!
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again , never mentioned anything about that either@arso
Even I [surprise] can give you a source . the current rebbi of habad-
He writes in a sicha that the baal hatanya was greater than R Yochanan Ben Zakai because RYBZ was not in touch with his neshama , he was too busy with his avodat hashem so he had never time to check his neshama it should not be in the kelipa .
So from there you can see the importance of checking your neshama ….@menachem
you misunderstood me .
my question is very simple . R Chaims obvious intention was that it impossible to argue back on something which serves as A COVER foe something deeper [in his case discarding of yahadut] . You brought RC as rationale why you are not answering .
My question is , and was
– WHAT IN YOUR OPINION IS COVERING OUR QUESTIONS , thereby absolving you from answering ?
Are we going to get an answer on this one , [or does RC apply to this question too] ?CS s post reveal the goodness of the yiddishe neshama .
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Such mesirut for his leader , but so sorely misguided .
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Such temimut and ratson for the good , but so manipulated .
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A true cause for tsa’ar .
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Real tsa’ar.
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The face of the true tragedy – the face of misguided habad theology …..
.@CS
they lost face at the time of their first uturn . After years of strenuously accusing those who said that habad is [secretly] promoting their rebbi as mashiach . They accused them of sinas chinam [sounds familiar ..].
It was all one big libel against them .
They even mobilised all other hasidim to defend them against those ‘haters’ , who accused them of this blood libel , as if they want to promote their rebbi as mashiach .
Then they made a [huge] uturn, discrediting themselves .
Acknowledging their own rebbi’s messiahship.
And in the process , give huge credence to those so called ‘haters’ , who were busy with so called sinas chinam ……
That was only uturn number one ……sinas chinam has no place here ,
criticism of habad theology re mashiach is perfectly legit and has no connection to sinas chinam at all .@menachem
Qwerty,If you think we misunderstood you explain yourself.
I told yankel berel that he misunderstood me. Why do you write “we”? I wasn’t talking about you!
Oh, I forgot. You’re on his chess team.
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Hello — Menachem . still waiting for an explanation
Yankel@nomesorah
….let’s get to some theology …..
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Habad ‘s points , discussed in all my posts ,were theology . Not me ,
It was their rabbanim and their chozer and their rebbi who were talking theology . Not me .
Their rebbi is the one who said that Nevua came back to the Jews . Thats Theology .
Its Their chozer and their rabbanim who said that Nevua letov CANNOT come back rekam . And that the fact that their rebbi is the messiah is a nevua letov . So he cannot die in a physical sense.
They made a theology out of it . Not me .
[Or maybe you are insinuating they were using theology for ‘propaganda and messaging’ purposes ????]
I am merely following in their footsteps .
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Dear Nomesorah
Its time to be mekayem ‘Leolam Yehei Adam … Modeh al haEmet , VeDover Emet BiLevavo ….’
.@ nomesorah
…….A kol korei does not reflect reality….
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So, according to you the reality was not that the habad hasidim considered their rebbi to be the messiah and therefore could not die before accomplishing his mission ?
An honest Yes or no answer ?
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So according to you , a kol korei and articles by the leading rabbanim and mashpi’im of habad do not reflect and shape opinion within habad hasidim ?
An honest Yes or no answer ?
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So according to you a kol korei and articles by the leading rabbanim and mashpi’im of habad do not reflect the wishes of their leader ?
An honest Yes or no answer ?
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Honesty , my dear nomesorah , honesty . A rare commodity ….
.@ qwerty
I am honored that you consider me ‘on your team’ .
However , may I suggest a small correction, if I may .
We are not fighting the travesty called habad .
We are fighting the travesty of THE THEOLOGY of ‘modern habad’ .
We have to pinpoint accurately.@menachem
RECAP OF THE CONVERSATION
Now- R Menachem Shmei . . should we apply the klal of Shtika KeHoda’a here or not
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מוחה מוחה מוחהP.S. I’m reminded of the famous story of Reb Chaim Brisker (I think). Someone was asking him questions in emuna, and he didn’t respond.
Later, he explained why he remained silent:
פאר א קשיא, קען איך געבן א תירוץ. אבער איך קען ניט געבן א תירוץ פאר א תירוץ…
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Why did R Chaim call it a ‘teiruts’ ?
Because those ‘arguments’ were only a fig leaf for the guy’s previous decision to discard yahadut to satisfy his base desires . He needed justification , so he found some ‘kushiyot’ which served excellently as ‘teirutsim’ to absolve him from guilt feelings over his attachment to his yetser hara.
Please , in a moment of honesty – is that the case here ? The doubts about habad are A RESULT of discarding yahadut ?
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No, it is not. You misunderstood me.
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So , Menachem , what was your real intention ?@ nomesorah
This has to be the most childish Chabad thread yet!Might as well add to it…
יִ֥תְיַצְּב֨וּ מַלְכֵי־אֶ֗רֶץ וְרוֹזְנִ֥ים נֽוֹסְדוּ־יָ֑חַד עַל־יְ֝הֹוָ֗ה וְעַל־מְשִׁיחֽוֹ
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Nomesorah uses the word ‘meshicho’ .
And still claims he is ‘not habad’ .
Go figure ….@ nomesorah
I don ‘t care for any official statements from any group. Kol korei culture is meaningless to me.I am not Chabad at all. I don’t shun them either. There is a lot of great kosher fun to be had. Like, spending a day with an bunch of frum bochurim who know how to learn and actually learn. Or an all night bull session about deep concepts without canceling each other. Sorry that you are missing out.
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1] Am not habad either .
However Don’t shun them either.
Criticism of modern habad theology is not necessarily a reason to shun them .
2] Ignoring kol korei culture – is tantamount to ignoring reality .
Not recognizing that what I wrote was AN ACCURATE REFLECTION OF UNIVERSAL HABAD BELIEFS pre 1996 , is a prime example of IGNORING REALITY , which you either do willfully , which is disingenuous .
Or not willfully , in which case any further comment is totally superfluous [to put it mildly]
3] Judging from your comments ,you seem to have a vested interest in sidestepping and thereby defending the indefensible.@menachem
I don’t know if this rule applies at all in Torah Debates. Maybe I just can’t figure out what you want. Maybe we have different interests in this discussion.
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It does apply in torah debates . If there is a Taana , heard and still unanswered .Why is there no answer given ? Probably because THERE IS NO ANSWER available …
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Cant figure out what I want …… Sounds a bit like a lame excuse , or not ? Other option – THERE IS NO ANSWER available …
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Different interests – Yes, Yours is To missionize for habad , at all costs .
Mine is to hash it out . Are there explanations for habad theologies’ acrobatics or not ?@potato
1] You are turning yourself into a pretsel to convince us into believing mashiach comes from the dead .
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Do you realise that it was HABAD ITSELF ,proclaiming [in the same way as you do now] to all and sundry that mashiach comes only from the alive ?
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Do you realize that the more you talk about this topic the more untrustworthy you appear ?
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2] Criticism of habad theology is not hate ,nor sinat hinam . When will you realize that ?
Its just that.
Criticism .
Nothing more.Dear Yankel,
@ mesorah
Mesorah to yankel
I really don’t know much of these statements. They weren’t intended for me and I never met someone who uses these types of proclamations as a reason for what they think or do. If they thought that way, they will use it as ‘proof’ and if they don’t, they dismiss it. These public directives are barely educational and even less reliable.My position is that there is nothing wrong with Chabad Hashkafah. It is on par with every other group. I have written this over a dozen times. I don’t know why their media is indicative of how they think in their heads. You have to meet real people to see what their actual belief is.
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Mesorah seems likehe is again doing what he does best …. Beating around the bush and sidestepping .
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He “doesn’t know much about these statements .”
That was referring to Statements by ALL habad rabbanim and their chozer and first rate habad mashpi’im .
He was referring to habad’s official position, trumpeted ALL AROUND THE WORLD .
Accepted by ALL habad hasidim at the time .
He is referring to something ALL religious Jews at the time knew as unassailable fact.
But Nomesorah doesn’t know much about it …
He doesn’t know ? …. Or maybe he does not WANT TO KNOW … ?
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“Those statements were not intended for him … ”
No ? Statements by the Chief Chozer of his rebbi , SUPPORTED BY his rebbi , supported by all habad rabbanim ‘were not intended’ for him …. Ridiculous seems an understatement …..
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“He never met someone who uses these types of proclamations as a reason for what they think or do”
It was WELL KNOWN EVERYWHERE that this was THE habad position .Espoused by all habadi’s at the time . But Nomesorah never met any habadi who would be influenced by the chozer and ALL habad rabbanim and mashpi’im ….. . Who does he think he is kidding ?
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He opines further – “those public directives are barely educational and even less reliable ”
According to Nomesorah – the Chozer plus ALL habad rabbanim and mashpi’im’s public directives are barely educational and even less reliable ………
Has he taken leave of his senses ? …. Or maybe he thinks we have ….
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Bottom line . Am not sure whose silence is more deafening here ? Menachems , retreating into his bunker [quoting qwerty] , or nomesorah’s by showing the best rebuttals he can muster .
The silence , across the board, is deafening .
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Seems there is no other option than the final usage of ‘Shtika Ke …. ‘