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there is a fourth category
who understand that their rebbe was great but still limited and in certain cases severely mistaken
and who could formulate a way of articulating this without on one hand being mevazeh people unnecessary and
on the other hand without giving him unearned immunity from crosschecking him with basic facts and basic logic
shabtai tzvi was great — by all accounts
otherwise he would not be able to garner the following of the majority of the jews in his time
including many famous rabbanim
great but still mistaken , …. severely mistaken
great does not mean … infallible
.Lol.
flamingo refuses to answer any of the 17 simple questions
but still accuses the jews of ‘foreclosing critique’ …..
I recommend her for honorable mention in the Guinness Book of Records under the subject of “Biggest Hypocrite” …..
/////////////////katan’s answer is only for the small minority of klal yisrael who believe in the shita hakdosha
for the majority of klal yisrael this is not an answer .
.
the real answer is teshuva . hayom im bekoli tishma’un
lev yodea marat nafsho
and everyone should make their own cheshbon hanefesh.
.@square
ujm’s proposal to ‘give’ EY to the US , is a total non starter
they will NEVER take it
they will NEVER grant citizenship to the 12- 15 million arabs and jewish inhabitants plus descendants of refugees
they will NEVER deploy their soldiers and put them in harm’s way to shield the innocent jews from the brainwashed barbarians
who relish to see masses of blood
ujm himself does’ not believe in this proposal either
ujm only mentions this as a diversionary tactic
ujm is blinded by a agadic maharal
which is totally irrelevant to our situation
and additionally, is not even halacha pesuka
as all halachik codifiers clearly paskan otherwise.
.
.
its all one big baloney .
.
.If we do not know how to solve the problem — then it is pikuach nefesh and al pi torah we are commanded with lo ta’amod al dam reiacha
for each and every jew endangered
for each and every time the danger is stoppable.
.
.
.that adds up to a really huge amount of la’avin …
so there are an innumerable amount of la’avin commanding us to keep the medina intact and support it
because of innumerable pikuach nefesh
of innumerable yehudim
and innumerable situations for each and every yehudi
.
.
.if you would have a practical solution then those la’avin might fall away
therefore it is extremely important to see whether there is another solution or not
and also extremely important to see how durable the other solution is
..
the torah clearly commands us to look for solutions —- all the time
it is included in the hiyuv gamur of “lo ta’amod al dam re’acha” ….
.
.I hear that the other NK achm … who moved from manchester to belgium complained to the government about rav leibish leiser the pshevorsker rabbe ?
I hear that there is a criminal file opened against the rebbe as a result ….
Is that an established pattern for the NK to follow ?
.
.Napoleon invaded Europe against the wishes of its citizens there over two centuries ago. Napoleon insisted on fighting until he conquered all of Europe. So Napoleon knew very well the trouble he was causing.
Those words of mine are as relevant to the future of the Jews in EY as your words ….
.
.
.@square
you are a plain mehutsaf when you call satmar rav a ‘phoney’ etc
there is a clear hyuv mecha’a against such blatant bizuy talmidei hahamim
this is very hamur and
you should recant asap
.
.lol.
I did not comprehend …
laughing again ….
.
.those savages will not rule EY ????
really ???
so exactly who will rule ????
.
.who exactly will be happy for their own sons to die in fights against those savages ????
.
.reality ….
reality …..
reality …..
reality …..
reality ……
.
.somejew in his previous post admitted that he does not have a solution for mass pikuach nefesh miyadi we collectively are facing
he nevertheless advocates in a psik reisha way for an option in which this mass pikuach nefesh should materialise chvsh
.
.in our torah – not sure about his ….
we are commanded to do everything in our power [besides the 3 hamurot] to avert pikach nefesh even for one individual
kal vachomer ben beno shel kal vachomer for mass pikuach nefesh
all of the above is simple and straightforward torah , clear even to a bar bei rav dechad yoma
.
.
.somejew , katan, ujm and flamingo are tirelessly advocating against the torah
and that on a site calling itself ‘yeshiva’ ….
they are no different to reform advocating for driving on shabbat to encourage shul attendance
which would never merit a place on a ‘yeshiva’ site …..
.
.Lol.
flamingo refuses to answer any of the 17 simple questions
but still accuses the jews of ‘foreclosing critique’ …..
I recommend her for honorable mention in the Guinness Book of Records under the subject of “Biggest Hypocrite” …..
.
.
.flamingo is one huge copout
she falsely complains that people don’t answer her delusions
when she herself refuses to answer 17 clear and simple REALITY BASED questions
she – if she continues to refuse to answer …
is losing all credibility ….
.
.
.@flamingo
you frequently complain that you cannot read my posts – they have all caps , hashem yishmor ….
repasted my questions here in an easier to read format for you
.
.
.1] how many innocent german children died in world war two ?
was that genocide ?
if not , why not ?
.
.
.
.2] given that hamas – and the majority of so called palestinians supported by many millions more outside palestine,
fanatically want israel and its jewish inhabitants to literally disappear from the face of the earth
why do you describe people dying in israel’s defensive wars as dying to ‘make space’ for it ?
why are they not considered as dying to defend their own families existence ?
.
.
.
.
.3] why are you blindly parroting the distortions by the biased media ?
why are you ignoring the fanatical armed men hiding in between those innocent children who are the real criminals
who are the ones who have the blood of those children on their hands ?
.
.
.
..
4] why are those fanatical men not offering the usage of their hundreds of kms of tunnels to those innocent children ?
is it because they are hoping for [!] those innocent children to be blown to bits ?
and hoping for flamingOTD to write heartwrenching ‘humane’ posts about those evil zionists ?
.
.
.
.
.5] why are you prepared to be the prop and the useful idiot in the hands of those very same criminals
who are the ones who have the blood of the children from their own community on their own hands
and are counting on you to do their bidding ?
.
.
.
.
.6] what happens to a jew who walks by himself into most so called ‘nongenocidal’ arab towns in the middle east ?
what happens to an arab who walks by himself into most so called ‘genocidal’ israeli towns in the middle east ?
can you give an honest reality based answer ?
after this answer — with honesty and reality , which side is the real genocidal one ?
.
.
.
.
.7] anywhere between 600000 and two and a half million German civilians died during the 1940’s as a result of the Allies war against Germany .
Is that genocide ? ? ?
.
.
.
.8] do you recognize the established fact that …. there are arab ministers , supreme court judges and MK’s in israel ?
so why do you repeat the lie that israel is racist ?
.
.
.
.
.9] do you recognize the established fact that jews come from all diverse ‘races’ . brown, white, black and yellow ?
so why do you repeat the lie that israel is racist ?
.
.
.
.10] considering the context of hamas hiding behind civilians coupled with international denial of civilians the natural and essential option
of running away
why do the Arab and leftist hypocrites who block their escape not have their innocent blood on their own hands ???
.
.
.
.
,11] Were the majority of deaths civilian in the invasion of Iraq ??
Were the majority of deaths civilian in the War in Afghanistan ??
.
.
.
.12] Why is the fact that the vast majority of deaths in gaza are civilian , any proof that israel does not target terrorists ??
is it not possible that civilians are killed because of hamas hiding and mingling with them ???
do you have real proof that this is not the case ??
.
.
.
.
13] Why does hamas not give shelter to civilians in their many hundreds kms long tunnels ???could it be that civilian casualties is a desired outcome for them ???
.
.
.
.
.14] if many millions of people would support nazism , would you fall in line , simply because that would be “the perspective of the world” at the time ????
.
.
.
.
15] compare arab population growth in palestine from 1860 – 1940 with arab population growth in syria , jordan and lebanon …communities with same cultural characteristics , how come there is such a huge difference in population growth ?
the answer is arab immigration towards palestine … lured there to benefit from huge zionist investments ….
so why do they merit the unearned moniker of ‘indigenous’ ????
.
.
.
.16] the so called ‘palestinians’ NEVER had an independent country
not under caliph omar from 638 who was muslim
not under the mamelukes from 1239 who were muslim
not under the ottomans from 1516 who were muslim
not under the jordanians and the egyptians from 1948 who were muslim
why did their own muslim ‘brothers’ not grant them a country ??
.
.
.
.
.
.17] did you hear the true tales of the real ‘indigenous’ yazidi , of what happened to them ????
of the kurds ???
of the alawites ???
of the druze ????
why do you think the lot of the jews will be any better ???
.
.
..
.
.
.we need answers based on hard reality
will repeat —— ON HARD REALITY
not based on feel good media talking points
or on
fuzzy feel good distortions
.
.
.there you are
presented you with 17 simple reality based questions
can you honestly answer them — reality based , fact based ???
let’s see …
looking forward to your point by point answers , reality based
.
.anyone knows the name of katan’s mother ?
katan needs our tefillot urgently
when confronted with the ikarei emuna of hamas , which include the destruction of the jews anywhere on the globe
plus praise for hitler
he blames the … zionists
instead of blaming hamas themselves and
instead of recognizing that as the direct result of katan’s shitah
those savages will rule EY …
which obviously is clear mass pikuach nefesh
katan buries his head in the sand …
katan needs a refua shlema
refuat hanefesh …
.
.somejew asked where the NK is against the torah ???
The following are the Hamas’ ikarei emuna:
– The Jews were killed in Germany because they helped the enemy
– All misfortunes suffered by the Jews anywhere over the generations are their own fault
– The Koran encourages the killing of Jews
– All Jews have to be driven out of Palestine
– The Jew is the historical center of evil, hated by the entire world
– The endgame is the total uprooting of the Jew , which will happen at the End of Days, may it happen with Allah’s help
——————————————————-
These are the people who are naturally next in line to take over governance of EY , when the fervent wishes of the NK for the collapse of the hated medina will materialize …
The very minute the IDF stops its work , those ‘people’ are taking over ….
No one besides the IDF is prepared to suffer dead and wounded to stop those ‘people’
No outside force will risk the lives of their soldiers to confront those fanatics
This is clear mass pikuach nefesh.
Clear to anyone not bribed by ideological blinkers ….
NK are advocating for mass pikuach nefesh chvsh
Much like reform are advocating for driving on shabbat
Against the torah
.
.flamingo thinks that the jews who are threatened by genocidal barbarians are in need of some therapy
therapy which will restore their supposed lost empathy
supposed lost empathy as a result of trauma
trauma which causes supposed narrowness
and supposed reliance on supposed faulty imagination ….
.
.
flamingo has it all backwardsflamingo is in need of reality checks
reality checks regarding , not the past , but the future
what you can reasonably expect of a one dimensional state
the blood shed by those same barbarians in lebanon , in syria , in libya , in iraq , in sudan , in algeria , in yemen
all without any ‘colonialism’ , ‘whiteness’ , ‘occupation’ and any of those other false descriptions
that blood should serve as a timely reminder of what the future holds in a state governed by them ….
how blind could flamingo get , when she ignores those widespread atrocities …..
.
.
bet that flamingo is not going to answer … for the simple reason ….that there is no honest answer available …..
.
.@flamingo
1] how many innocent german children died in world war two ?
was that genocide ?
if not , why not ?
2] given that hamas – and the majority of so called palestinians supported by many millions more outside palestine,
fanatically want israel and its jewish inhabitants to literally disappear from the face of the earth
why do you describe people dying in israel’s defensive wars as dying to ‘make space’ for it ?
why are they not considered as dying to defend their own families existence ?
3] why are you blindly parroting the distortions by the biased media ?
why are you ignoring the fanatical armed men hiding in between those innocent children who are the real criminals
who are the ones who have the blood of those children on their hands ?
4] why are those fanatical men not offering the usage of their hundreds of kms of tunnels to those innocent children ?
is it because they are hoping for [!] those innocent children to be blown to bits ?
and hoping for flamingOTD to write heartwrenching ‘humane’ posts about those evil zionists ?
5] why are you prepared to be the prop and the useful idiot in the hands of those very same criminals
who are the ones who have the blood of the children from their own community on their own hands
and are counting on you to do their bidding ?
6] what happens to a jew who walks by himself into most so called ‘nongenocidal’ arab towns in the middle east ?
what happens to an arab who walks by himself into most so called ‘genocidal’ israeli towns in the middle east ?
can you give an honest reality based answer ?
after this answer — with honesty and reality , which side is the real genocidal one ?
7] anywhere between 600000 and two and a half million German civilians died during the 1940’s as a result of the Allies war against Germany .
Is that genocide ? ? ?
8] do you recognize the established fact that …. there are arab ministers , supreme court judges and MK’s in israel ?
so why do you repeat the lie that israel is racist ?
9] do you recognize the established fact that jews come from all diverse ‘races’ . brown, white, black and yellow ?
so why do you repeat the lie that israel is racist ?
10] considering the context of hamas hiding behind civilians coupled with international denial of civilians the natural option
of running away
why do the Arab and leftist hypocrites who block their escape not have their innocent blood on their own filthy hands ???
11] Were the majority of deaths civilian in the invasion of Iraq ??
Were the majority of deaths civilian in the War in Afghanistan ??
12] Why is the fact that the vast majority of deaths in gaza are civilian , any proof that israel does not target terrorists ??
is it not possible that civilians are killed because of hamas hiding and mingling with them ???
do you have real proof that this is not the case ??
13] Why does hamas not give shelter to civilians in their many hundreds kms long tunnels ???
could it be that civilian casualties is a desired outcome for them ???
14] if many millions of people would support nazism , would you fall in line , simply because that would be “the perspective of the world” at the time ????
15] compare arab population growth in palestine from 1860 – 1940 with arab population growth in syria , jordan and lebanon …
communities with same cultural characteristics , how come there is such a huge difference in population growth ?
the answer is arab immigration towards palestine … lured there to benefit from huge zionist investments ….
so why do they merit the unearned moniker of ‘indigenous’ ????
16] the so called ‘palestinians’ NEVER had an independent country
not under caliph omar from 638 who was muslim
not under the mamelukes from 1239 who were muslim
not under the ottomans from 1516 who were muslim
not under the jordanians and the egyptians from 1948 who were muslim
why did their own muslim ‘brothers’ not grant them a country ??
17] did you hear the true tales of the real ‘indigenous’ yazidi , of what happened to them ????
of the kurds ???
of the alawites ???
of the druze ????
why do you think the lot of the jews will be any better ???
we need answers based on hard reality
will repeat —— ON HARD REALITY
not based on feel good media talking points
or on
fuzzy feel good distortions
.
there you are
presented you with 17 simple reality based questions
can you honestly answer them — reality based , fact based ???
let’s see …
@flamingo
my questions are not ‘hard to read’
my ‘personal insults’ are not any more ‘personal’ than yours
nor are they any more of an ‘insult’ than your comments are
if your comments are described as evil , it only is because the results of your comments
are the barbaric slaughter of my brothers in EY, which happens to be …. evil
all caps should not be an impediment to reading
and all of my questions are readily available for you to read , simply by scrolling up
they are written in simple and clear english
if you cannot comprehend them , then you should automatically be disqualified
from commenting on weighty topics like this one
—————–
nevertheless I will copy and paste the questions for you again
but with one essential request — that your answers should be the product of YOUR OWN MIND , and
not a regurgitation of what you pick up in the biased and evil media … yes …. evil , you read correctly ….
.
.
.there was another achmed in manchester who went to iran
to hug president ahmedinejad who claimed the holocaust was an invention ….
he moved to belgium
he was also ‘sweet’ like cohen ….
ask the jews from belgium about him …
we should post about his ‘sweetness’ another time ….
we could write an entire volume about his ‘sweetness’ ….
.
.there were golden ages for jews in spain and the ottomans in turkey, both muslim
so , no they are NOT preaching this for 1400 years ….
please don’t ignore the facts
.
.we need your honest answer …
Hate of The Jews – A Historical Inheritance [2020 – printed in Gaza]
No Future [for the Jew] within the Nations [2008 – printed in Algeria]These are the titles of the books , published by Dr Alhazar , Founding Father and Member of Politburo of Hamas and ex Foreign Minister of the Hamas government of Gaza.
In it , the esteemed author makes several extremely popular statements. Popular with his readership , the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank. And with the Palestine – supporting outsiders . A copy of his book was found on the ‘humanitarian’ 2010 Mavi Marmara flotilla whose travelers’ ostensible goal was nothing more than providing aid to suffering Gazan Arabs .
Within those books the following gems are to be found ….
– The Jews were killed in Germany because they helped the enemy
– All misfortunes suffered by the Jews anywhere over the generations are their own fault
– The Koran encourages the killing of Jews
– All Jews have to be driven out of Palestine
– The Jew is the historical center of evil, hated by the entire world
– The endgame is the total uprooting of the Jew , which will happen at the End of Days, may it happen with Allah’s help
——————————————————-
These are the friends of somejew , of ujm , flamingOTD and katan
These are the people who are naturally next in line to take over governance of EY , when the fervent wishes of somejew , katan , flamingOTD and ujm for the collapse of the hated medina will materialize …
The very minute the IDF stops its work , those ‘people’ are taking over ….
No one besides the IDF is prepared to suffer dead and wounded to stop those ‘people’
No outside force will risk the lives of their soldiers to confront those fanatics
This is clear to anyone not bribed by ideological blinkers ….
.
.Hate of The Jews – A Historical Inheritance [2020 – printed in Gaza]
No Future [for the Jew] within the Nations [2008 – printed in Algeria]These are the titles of the books , published by Dr Alhazar , Founding Father and Member of Politburo of Hamas and ex Foreign Minister of the Hamas government of Gaza.
In it , the esteemed author makes several extremely popular statements. Popular with his readership , the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank. And with the Palestine – supporting outsiders . A copy of his book was found on the ‘humanitarian’ 2010 Mavi Marmara flotilla whose travelers’ ostensible goal was nothing more than providing aid to suffering Gazan Arabs .
Within those books the following gems are to be found ….
– The Jews were killed in Germany because they helped the enemy
– All misfortunes suffered by the Jews anywhere over the generations are their own fault
– The Koran encourages the killing of Jews
– All Jews have to be driven out of Palestine
– The Jew is the historical center of evil, hated by the entire world
– The endgame is the total uprooting of the Jew , which will happen at the End of Days, may it happen with Allah’s help
——————————————————-
These are the friends of somejew , of ujm , flamingOTD and katan
These are the people who are naturally next in line to take over governance of EY , when the fervent wishes of somejew , katan , flamingOTD and ujm for the collapse of the hated medina will materialize …
The very minute the IDF stops its work , those ‘people’ are taking over ….
No one besides the IDF is prepared to suffer dead and wounded to stop those ‘people’
No outside force will risk the lives of their soldiers to confront those fanatics
This is clear to anyone not bribed by ideological blinkers ….
.
.Hate of The Jews – A Historical Inheritance [2020 – printed in Gaza]
No Future [for the Jew] within the Nations [2008 – printed in Algeria]These are the titles of the books , published by Dr Alhazar , Founding Father and Member of Politburo of Hamas and ex Foreign Minister of the Hamas government of Gaza.
In it , the esteemed author makes several extremely popular statements. Popular with his readership , the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank. And with the Palestine – supporting outsiders . A copy of his book was found on the ‘humanitarian’ 2010 Mavi Marmara flotilla whose travelers’ ostensible goal was nothing more than providing aid to suffering Gazan Arabs .
Within those books the following gems are to be found ….
– The Jews were killed in Germany because they helped the enemy
– All misfortunes suffered by the Jews anywhere over the generations are their own fault
– The Koran encourages the killing of Jews
– All Jews have to be driven out of Palestine
– The Jew is the historical center of evil, hated by the entire world
– The endgame is the total uprooting of the Jew , which will happen at the End of Days, may it happen with Allah’s help
——————————————————-
These are the friends of somejew , of ujm , flamingOTD and katan
These are the people who are naturally next in line to take over governance of EY , when the fervent wishes of somejew , katan , flamingOTD and ujm for the collapse of the hated medina will materialize …
The very minute the IDF stops its work , those ‘people’ are taking over ….
No one besides the IDF is prepared to suffer dead and wounded to stop those ‘people’
No outside force will risk the lives of their soldiers to confront those fanatics
This is clear to anyone not bribed by ideological blinkers ….
.
.Hate of The Jews – A Historical Inheritance [2020 – printed in Gaza]
No Future [for the Jew] within the Nations [2008 – printed in Algeria]These are the titles of the books , published by Dr Alhazar , Founding Father and Member of Politburo of Hamas and ex Foreign Minister of the Hamas government of Gaza.
In it , the esteemed author makes several extremely popular statements. Popular with his readership , the Arabs of Gaza and the West Bank. And with the Palestine – supporting outsiders . A copy of his book was found on the ‘humanitarian’ 2010 Mavi Marmara flotilla whose travelers’ ostensible goal was nothing more than providing aid to suffering Gazan Arabs .
Within those books the following gems are to be found ….
– The Jews were killed in Germany because they helped the enemy
– All misfortunes suffered by the Jews anywhere over the generations are their own fault
– The Koran encourages the killing of Jews
– All Jews have to be driven out of Palestine
– The Jew is the historical center of evil, hated by the entire world
– The endgame is the total uprooting of the Jew , which will happen at the End of Days, may it happen with Allah’s help
——————————————————-
These are the friends of somejew , of ujm , flamingOTD and katan
These are the people who are naturally next in line to take over governance of EY , when the fervent wishes of somejew , katan , flamingOTD and ujm for the collapse of the hated medina will materialize …
The very minute the IDF stops its work , those ‘people’ are taking over ….
No one besides the IDF is prepared to suffer dead and wounded to stop those ‘people’
No outside force will risk the lives of their soldiers to confront those fanatics
This is clear to anyone not bribed by ideological blinkers ….
.
.Dr Mahmoud Alzahar ‘s book :
No future for Jews between the Nations [printed in Algeria 2008]
Dr Alzahar is a Founding Member of Hamas and member of their Politburo.
.
.Gems to be found in his book :
-Hitler was right.
-There is no future for the Jews within the Nations of the World
-The Jew is a foreign plant within the Garden of the World
-The koran supports the killing of the Jews.
-The Jews have to be deported from Palestine
-The Jews will be totally uprooted
————————-
ujm, somejew and katan support the collapse of the medina
ujm, somejew and katan seem to paskan halacha lema’se not like shulchan aruch
ujm, somejew and katan are therefore ready to be mafkir millions to the likes of Dr Alhazar …
.
.somejew is conveniently ignoring us …
rambam clearly infers that mashiach will fight conventional wars
I could not find anywhere in rambam anything about miracles done by mashiach …
.
.ujm is giving a false and crooked impression
as if the satmar view that the mere existence of the medina is stopping mashiach from coming
is somehow accepted in mainstream haredi judaism
this is sheker and plain baloney
it is time ujm is modeh al ha’emet …..
.
.sounds quite right
thanks for the context
does someone have any sources to what really happened there ?
.cannot understand how ujm can advocate for the closing of the medina
without taking responsibility for the safety of millions of innocent people …..
.
have not decided …
is flamingo jewish ?
she claims she is ….
.
flamingo complains why I don’t answer her questions
while she did not even attempt to answer any of my many questions I posed to her since she came onto the thread ….
where are YOUR answers , flamingo ???
—-
the answer to your question is extremely simple : it is a resounding yes
even without any ‘ancient texts’ , support for this nation state stands on principles of secular ethics, safety, and shared humanity , as they are equally applied all around the globe …
or better said … as they SHOULD be equally applied around the globe
as long as you agree to stop outsourcing your own thinking to shallow or biased people , no matter how big their following …
—-
your next statement reveals your own shallow , biased and misleading thinking ….
you say : Many Jews — religious and non-religious — support Jewish safety and self-determination … without believing that ancient texts grant unlimited moral license or foreclose ethical critique.
No religious authority , no established part of judaism believes that they are somehow granted unlimited moral license or foreclose ethical critique .
This is an utter venomous lie.
You drank deeply from the poisonous well of vile lies about the jews . You mindlessly repeat those lies .
Or you are too stupid to be blamed for your stupidity, or you are plain vile.
Under the cover of those lies , are the worst of the worst planned against my [and your ? ] brothers and sisters .
—-
you mix two very different issues , apparently without realizing …
first we have to decide for ourselves what is just , that is done WITHOUT OUTSOURCING , for sure not to biased , evil or shallow people .
second , only after we came to a conclusion about the first and totally separate of the first …
we have to take note of those biased , evil or shallow people’s propaganda and realize that the false reality they are projecting
will take on a life of their own and create a new and false reality …
your problem is that you are using the second issue to decide the first
that’s why your mind is muddled and therefore endangering your own brothers
—
all my comments about your thinking are nothing more than an honest critique
listen to this contradiction — you yourself are complaining about supposed inability of the jews to hear critique , and
about their supposed ‘foreclosure’ of moral critique …
and you yourself cannot take some honest fact based personal critique ???
it is high time for your position to ‘evolve’ … and fast …..
—-
there is no ‘islamophobia’ in my posts … not at all ….
all there is , is fact based , reality based logical analysis ….
anf if you have a problem with reality based logical analysis
then it is you who is having a problem …. a major problem ….
—-
this is not a shiur led by me …
this is a shiur led by you …
don’t forget I answered all your questions and comments , going through line by line
you ANSWERED NONE OF MINE …..
do ‘secular ethics’ allow for totally ignoring your opponents questions while receiving point by point answers on your own , and
on top of that still complaining that this is a shiur led by your opponent ???
maybe [tongue in cheek] you are relying on some ‘ancient text’ for your ‘foreclosure’ of critique …..
.
.
.I hear they pay quite well … good idea … am going to apply …
now seriously
one imam does not represent islam … there are plenty of others who would disagree
its silly to make such a sweeping decision
islam has not been preaching this for the last 1400 years
thats also silly
.
.@capcom
for once I agree with somejew
.will rephrase ujm ‘s post to make it palatable to normal people :
Thugs in uniform and on horseback and with batons have been violently beating Bnei Torah in Eretz Yisroel many times since 1948.
.
.@UJM:
depends what you consider ‘major points’
if it is the 13 ikarim , then yes
if it is that the mere existence of the medina is stopping mashiach from coming , then no
you can go on and on about things which are very major in satmars eyes , which are simply not accepted in mainstream haredi judaism
besides , no one ever , incuding me , ever called satmar rav’s personal gadlut in to question
that was never the issue
the main issue is the false and crooked impression that somehow all haredim hold of satmar view of the medina
any astute child knows that not to be true
and that is still bemeizid misrepresented by revisionists like ujm , somejew and katan …
.
.thanks . the more those guys post , the more people get turned off …
the kanna’i side has good and valid points and sources …
but not when you read their posts ….
.
.1] there is a difference between listening to someones music and learning someones torah
on the other hand 2] music also carries a certain subtle message and people do get influenced
I never heard of lennon so I do not have an opinion
but 3] the late leader of habad was definitely not a ‘lowlife’
shabtai tzvi wasn’t either [not to compare the two – they both led very different lives , for sure at the end]
rav kuk wasn’t either [also not comparing – again]
would you learn the torah of rav kuk ?
some people would , some people would not
some people would differentiate between different areas of rav kuk’s torah
so what should one do with the torah of the late leader of habad ?
it should at the very least be treated with a ‘buyer beware’ label …
that’s my opinion for whatever it is worth
.
read the previous post of mine and have to correct it …
the following is the correct version-
No, it was not a paradise for a Jew to have lived under Muslim rule, but Jews did many times, better under Muslim rule than they did under Christian rule. And, the decades leading up to the 20th century were more peaceful for Jews in the holy land than were the decades after the Zionists settled and developed the holy land. This is a simple fact.
A simple , but TOTALLY IRRELEVANT fact …. .
.
somejew:
… the Rambam includes it in the 13 ikarim and claims anyone who doesn’t believe in the miraculous redemption is no longer part of the am yisroel …
sheker vechazav .
rambam never said that
rambam said the following :
the Rambam includes mashiach in the 13 ikarim and claims anyone who doesn’t believe in the redemption by mashiach is no longer part of the am yisroel …
AFAIK , rambam does not mention the word ‘miraculous’ ….
this seems somejew’s own addition ….
.
flaming :
Curious, if you were not Jewish and you knew the Torah was not true. Lets say you had a bas kol from shamayim telling you the Torah wasn’t true, would you still support the idea of Israel?—
this comment too is showing your shallowness …
1] a bas kol is irrelevant . we know torah was given by HKBH and even a thousand bas kols will not make even a whiff of a difference
cf rambam hilchot yesodei hatorah towards the end
2] besides — since when is the premise of torah not being emet a precondition for our thinking ???
think your thinking process still needs to “evolve” …. substantially ….
if the torah is not emet , then why would you not be a communist , a nazi , a pedophile or a mass murderer ???
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flaming:
…. Like from the perspective of the world, we are using an ancient religious text to justify the genocide of an indigenous group of people. We certainly wouldn’t be the first group to do this ….—
again shallowness :
3] from the perspective of the world — meaning in other words : the elites , the shallow , the muslims and the antisemites ….
since when is reality and real morality objectively decided by those shallow and /or biased people ???
have you regressed so far in your own thinking that you have to outsource your inviduality , your own opinions to those shallow and biased people ??
you cannot think for yourself anymore ???
if many millions of people would support nazism , would you fall in line , simply because that would be “the perspective of the world” at the time ????
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flaming :
…. we are using an ancient religious text to justify the genocide of an indigenous group of people …
—
4] you regurgitate blatant lies which are used to murder and maim our own [and your own ?] innocent sisters and brothers
do you realize that ???
these are blatant lies
we are NOT using ancient religious texts at all ….
we are using healthy logic rooted in reality and experience … which you are dearly lacking ….
there is NO GENOCIDE , not in your wildest dreams
you are totally impervious to reality , totally impervious to the real meaning of the word genocide
and you have totally outsourced your own thinking to the elites , the shallow , the muslims and the antisemites
think , think , think and think …. that is the sole and proven prescription for the mental decay you are burying yourself in ….
5] the so called palestinians are mostly descendants of immigrants from surrounding arab areas , lured by improved economic prospects
generated by huge zionist investments in this area
compare arab population growth in palestine from 1860 – 1940 with arab population growth in syria , jordan and lebanon …
remember – there are no real borders between those areas
communities with same cultural characteristics , how come there is such a huge difference in population growth ?
immigration …
so why do they merit the moniker of ‘indigenous’ ????
5] the so called ‘palestinians’ NEVER had an independent country
not under caliph omar from 638 who was muslim
not under the mamelukes from 1239 who were muslim
not under the ottomans from 1516 who were muslim
not under the jordanians and the egyptians from 1948 who were muslim
why did their own muslim ‘brothers’ not grant them a country ????
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flaming:
…. And now we don’t have to move out the current Jews, one state is a viable option. The palestenians are not looking just to harm us. They want a home and rights ….
—
now you are really having me in stitches ….
have you read and listened to hamas and similar people ???
do you know what they openly say ????
you know that the choice presented to the jews is between the suitcase and the coffin ???
do you know the barbarism they enacted on october 7 is just an appetizer chas vshalom
do you know what arab barbarians are able to do ???
did you hear the true tales of the real ‘indigenous’ yazidi , of what happened to them ????
they were not even monstrously libeled as being genocidal ????
and still look at the atrocities they suffered ….
same with countless other victims of the same so called ‘indigenous’ barbarian and fickle populations ….
how stupid you get when you outsource your own thinking ….
your lack of thinking is not only sad …. it is dangerous ….
high time to wake up ….
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@gadol hadofi
ujm quotes the testimony of a confirmed mass murderer …
… because anything goes to satisfy his blind obsession : the dismantlement of the fanatically hated medina at all costs …
…. at all costs ….
…. those terrible costs to be born by millions of innocents in EY …
but not by ujm …. he will watch safely from his home ….
ujm seems quite royal about those costs … he will not have suffer any of those costs ….
nor will his compatriots somejew and katan have to suffer ….
that may explain their blind and fanatical posts ….
.
.So, no, it is Satmar that is considered radical by the majority of yehudim ma’aminim, as
Satmar is considered as mainstream Torah, ONLY by satmar minded people , a vocal but clear minority of orthodox people all around the world .
your credibility would lift immensely if you would acknowledge this clear fact , which even any ten year old in any community knows to be true ….
.
.No, it was not a paradise for a Jew to have lived under Muslim rule, but Jews did overall better under Muslim rule than they did under Christian rule. And, more to the point, the decades leading up to the 20th century were more peaceful for Jews in the holy land than were the decades after the Zionists invaded the holy land. This is simple fact.
A simple , but TOTALLY IRRELEVANT fact …. .
.
Why are you distorting the plain facts ???
the passengers of the st louis in 1939
were NOT blocked by your favorite bogeyman , the zionists …
they were the victim of plain old antisemitism
so were the blocks long lines of desperate people queuing entire nights in order to be rejected from getting visas in 1940 – 41
they were the victims of plain old antisemitism
and the millions of your brothers, somejew and ujm want to change into refugees because of some non halachik agedata maharal
will likewise not have any place to go to …
but you do not care …. like reform does not care about hilul shabat ….
.
.
.flamingOTD
their land was not ‘stolen’ …
they themselves ‘stole’ the land
classic case of the thief himself screaming thief …
—-israel does not prioritize one ‘race’ over another ….
there are arab ministers , supreme court judges and MK’s in israel
that’s another libel you mindlessly repeat …
——besides … jews come from all diverse ‘races’ . brown, white, black and yellow
another lie you propagate ….
——
the word genocide has been artificially stretched to include what really are reasonable expectations of civilian casualties
considering the context of hamas hiding behind civilians coupled with international hypocrisy in denying civilians the natural option
all other civilians in war zones , have ….. : running away
all civilians in all other war zones do run away and save themselves …
arab and leftist hypocrites like you , block their escape and therefore have innocent blood on their hands
————–
your lack of elementary logic is amply manifested by your following words :“…the idea that “Israel only targets terrorists” is deeply false too. A vast majority of the deaths in Gaza are civillian ….”
Why is the fact that the vast majority of deaths in gaza are civilian , any proof that israel does not target terrorists ??
Were the majority of deaths civilian in the invasion of Iraq ????
Were the majority of deaths civilian in the War in Afghanistan ????
In any other war , were the majority of deaths , civilian ???
There is no logic whatsoever in your reasoning ….
They are riddled with lies and misrepresentations
And they are useful ammunition IN THE PAST AND FUTURE MURDER OF MY OWN BROTHERS AND SISTERS !!
SHAME ON YOU !!!
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Hope flamingOTD ‘s “opinion” will continue to “evolve” in the direction of clear facts based and torah based analysis ….
she claims she is new to frum life …
she claims she is female and from sepharadi origin ….
she claims one does not need to know torah to formulate a frum viewpoint ….
she claims there is an oppressed in the middle east
she claims that if israel will stop fighting back , the israelis will somehow not turn into the oppressed ….
she claims that if and when that happens chvsh … the israelis will be able to
take comfort in the sure ‘promise’ that flamingOTD will write posts in their defense …
now that we have this promise …. it is sure that the israeli’s should stop their defense against the ‘promised’ sure repeats of october 7 ….
the only thing still missing now … is a ‘promise’ of sharing of some middle eastern recipes courtesy of flamingOTD …
which we can ‘promise’ … that she is highly qualified to supply …
sorry …. ‘qualified’ —- what does that mean exactly ???
voila , the most thorny problem in the world is solved — courtesy of a foolishly flaming woman …..
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.@Ujm :
anyway —
the historical episode with kastner – either way
is totally irrelevant to your real objective …
the dismantlement of the blindly hated medina
leaving millions of innocents at the ‘mercy’ of somejews friends , chas veshalom ….
.
.it sounds like you are getting the correct message: don’t get torah from strangers online , for sure not from people like somejew …
.you are right re AAQ …
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