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somejew ???
it is clear that habad post 1950 , operates on a so called ‘missionary’ basis
in addition, converting the unsuspecting into blind believers in their leader is at the forefront of their efforts
this one of the main reasons why they are controversial
all their other positive qualities should be irrelevant when we encounter their blind missionizing
we should call it out without fear or favor
because we are not chvsh sitting in judgement on the totality of habad
something which we anyway are totally unqualified to do
besides the very important principle
of fix yourself up before fixing others
but then again – that does not mean we should just silently agree with all the drivel
people are trying to pass as normative judaism ….
.
.you have not answered my question
the houthi’s , in your opinion – do they hate the jews ?
.Impossible and unrealistic . Poker game with nefashot and posessions of millions.
Not even a game , in realistic terms , but a scenario which ends in most probable mass disaster , unmatched since WW2 and tach vetat.
when was the last time you had a conversation with a yazidi ?
In an alternate universe – the answer is for sure yes.
but as we all know – alternate universes are totally irrelevant .
.
.AAQ talks about and makes inference from rambams brother’s action , without having ever lived in similar environment and age , nor is AAQ privy to the brothers’ individual personality …
.When comparing the baal shem tov and his talmidim to our generation , one should keep in mind the huge differences between then and now .
not only in the level of the generations , “huge” would be a clear understatement
but also in chasidut itself
for the first few generations of hasidut , the son or son in law did not take over
it was the most suitable hasid or talmid who took over
and there was no guarantee either that the one taking over, would automatically ‘take’ all the hasidim with him
the doors were wide open for anyone to travel to someone else entirely
guaranteeing clear meritocracy
and dynamism within the movement
since that changed and it became an issue with hilchot yerusha , brand names , buildings and mosdot chinuch and batei midrash
and on top of that , all the publicity that goes with every specific hasidut
it has lost much of its original appeal
although one can still find to’elet in hasidic courts nowadays
it is a very far cry from the baal shemtovs talmidim – a different world ….
.
..
.A] This extreme, [although positive], emphasis on low benefit kiruv is singularly held by habad from 1950 and onwards
the price prepared to be paid for this, is unmatched , not to be found anywhere else in Judaism , ever.
B] the extreme emphasis on mashiach and his specific identity is equally singularly held by habad from 1950 and onwards
this emphasis is equally unmatched , not to be found anywhere else in Judaism , ever.
—the pivotal question is – are A and B related ?
or do they only happen to coincide ?
—
I do not have a clear answer .
nor do I have clear proof .
but it is homer lamachshava …..
.
.
.and the houthi’s , in your opinion – do they hate the jews ?
.
.Impossible and unrealistic . Poker game with nefashot and posessions of millions.
Not even a game , in realistic terms , but a scenario which ends in most probable mass disaster , unmatched since WW2 and tach vetat.
when was the last time you had a conversation with a yazidi ?
In an alternate universe – the answer is for sure yes.
but as we all know – alternate universes are totally irrelevant .
.
.hello r somejew
am happy to hear from you directly
let’s continue our conversation
you were going to explain why zionism necessarily contradicts any of the ikarei emuna
which one and how
you asked me to provide what galut means based on the torah and hazal
so — here we go : galut includes : ein mukdam ume’uchar …
shibud malhuyot in the form of onerous taxes specifically on the jews
shibud malhuyot as they interfere with kiyum hamitsvot
lack of malhut beit david
dispersion of the yehudim all around the world
being far from EY
lacking the avoda
lacking the tahara engendered by hakravat hakorbanot
lacking the BHMK
lacking hashra’at hashechina
the tsa’ar hashchina
physical tsarot as a result of shibud malhuyot
the immense power of the se’or sheba’issa or the yetser hara
the fact that most of the world’s inhabitants are not aware of the RBSHO and his torah
lacking the required menucha needed to delve into torah properly
lacking batei din smuchim
—
there might be more descriptions of what we are lacking in galut
but that is as far as I got for now ….
.
.looking forward to hearing from you soon ….
.
.the arab world comprises over twenty countries
can you name one country out the twenty plus — equalling lesss than 5 p/c of the total , where such a system as you proposed is a success in safeguarding a very substantial group of non moslem and non arabs ?
and why you think that such a system will safeguard your own brothers in the face of overwhelming support within the arab population of hamas goals and methods
which include offering millions of jews a binary choice between the coffin and the suitcase ?
and in case of serious threats to the security of millions of your own brothers
who exactly is going to be ready to sacrifice their own children for their safety in a literal sense ?
and even if some people or governments will pay the necessary lip service committing themselves to do so
how many casualties will it take for them to ultimately buckle ?
.
.
.
whatever you happen to think about the proclamation of the medina some 80 years agothis ship has sailed long ago
reality now is —
millions of your brothers are in sakana
and you [we all] are obligated to do all possible to shield them
irrespective of the futile blame game some are insisting on
like hatsala who do all they can to save people
without looking for someone to blame for this emergency
and only realistic solutions should be considered
.lol.
a viable solution ?
with all citizens and their possessions’ security , enforced by ujm ‘s posts ….
quite a secure proposition ….
bet that ujm himself would not entrust his own security and that of his own children to such a proposition ….
he will be watching from a very safe distance ….
.
.AAQ is again moving the goalposts smack in the middle of the game
the issue is not so much what the SC did
the main issue is the power the SC has taken without authorisation
the power to cancel whatever they want
arbitrarily , and unchecked
they themselves say this bepeh malei
as clear as can be
so polls are totally irrelevant to the discussion
thats besides the obvious fact that they are many times skewed or manipulated
why is AAQ ignoring the substance of the discussion ?
the SC has empowered itself [!] to cancel any type of law just by virtue of being ‘unreasonable’
even if passed 120 to 0 .
there is only one description possible :
illegal , and therefore criminal .
full stop.
.
.AAQ thinks rambam’s brother was a yeshiva bachur ???
.
.you probably are lumped together with katan and somejew because you seem to possess the same dictionary as them ….
.
.Rav yaakov kaminetski is widely quoted characterizing habad as similar to the para aduma
both are metaher temeim and metame tehorim
this was way before the mashiach madness started to be included in the yafutsu ‘shturem’ ….
both the subject of this thread and the shitat chinuch of habad are probably included in his quote ….
.
.yb to katan :
the secretary general of the arab league in 1947 stated that if the state of israel is proclaimed , the massacres of djengis khan will pale in comparison to what is going to happen in EY …
multiply october 7 by a thousand, as planned and promised by ‘sweet’ cohens friends …
and you will have the honored secretary’s prophesy actualized
october 7 serves as a good reminder as to what the friends of our ‘sweet’ cohen are really up to ….katan to yb :
Yet the Zionists, claiming they had a 50/50 chance of winning the war, chose to go against the UN which wanted to start a new mandate and instead chose to flip the coin and go to war, regardless of the cost in Jewish blood. Because in the Zionist faith, Zionism is above all else.
—–please read the above exchange …
the question : is katan sidestepping ?
.
did he say anything about the goals of sweet cohen’s friends ?
did he say anything about the methods of sweet cohen’s friends ?
why not ?
does sweet cohen give any legitimacy to his friends goals and methods ?
is katan giving any legitimacy to sweet cohens friends’ goals and methods ?
.
.
food for thought ….
.
.
.@AAQ
we do not need any examples when they themselves are clearly proclaiming for anyone to hear
SC says it clearly themselves —-black on white —- they own the right to cancel any decision , any law , no matter the numbers in the knesset
even 120 – 0
whenever they [subjectively] consider it ‘unreasonable’
.
.
.hoda’at baal din keme’a edim ….
they themselves say this , loud and clear
.
.AAQ
passports taken away, reminds me of the late USSR ….
.Square root reminds me of somejew and katan
just from the other side of the fence
both sides erroneously think they know better than the overwhelming majority of gdolei yisrael
both sides hang their shitot on some clearly contorted quotations
and both sides seriously infringe on their credibility in the process of doing so.
.
..
.AAQ :
…. Clearly Rambam was not against having a driving license – he was supported by his brother, a merchant.
………………………………………………………………………………
does ANYONE see any logic in this statement of AAQ ???
.
.
What exactly is the connection between being supported by your merchant brother on one handand bachurim in yeshiva not having a license ???
.
.
.@AAQ
baruch shelo kivanta
my attitude has no implications whatsoever besides the following :
restore the power to israeli citizens as it was for the first four and a half decades in EY
.
.I never claimed to deserve any more or any less power than any other citizen
I do claim however that the collective citizens in EY have been defrauded
by crooks and elitists and hypocrites
.
.I do not feel any more or less entitled than any other citizen in EY
what my options are – you ask ? the simple answer is ,
the same options as anyone else living under a dictatorship …
but at the very least , we should call it out as it really is , and not make believe as if those crooks and this fraud are somehow acceptable
like unrealistic AAQ insists on doing again and again ….
.
.
SC says it clearly themselves —-black on white —- they own the right to cancel any decision , any law , no matter the vote !if they [subjectively] consider it ‘unreasonable’
.
.
.hoda’at baal din keme’a edim ….
they themselves say this , loud and clear
.
.
only clear to those willing to listen …..
.
.
.katan to YB:
His [cohen’s] view that Jews are not responsible for anything the Zionists do or don’t do is indeed a very important one.—-
katan is sidestepping .
everyone says and everyone knows that Jews overall are not responsible for anything the Z do or don’t do.
that was not the issue re cohen at all !
the issue without sidestepping ! is the following , which is unforgivable :
it is ‘sweet’ cohen’s support of those who literally employ all means, including october 7 barbarities ! to murder our innocent brothers and sisters in EY
it does not make any difference how they sugarcoat this monstrosity
they support those murderers , they support those who threaten to repeat october 7 again and again
until all of our brothers and sisters are driven into the sea chvsh
when hitler threatened to murder all jews most people did not believe him either
husseini , this hero of ‘sweet’ cohens friends , visited aushwitz in 1944 in support of the good work done there …
frum inmates still remembered the guy with the funny hat , who was went by the funny name – ‘mufti’ ….
.
.the secretary general of the arab league in 1947 stated that if the state of israel is proclaimed ,
the massacres of djengis khan will pale in comparison to what is going to happen in EY [chvsh again] …
multiply october 7 by a thousand, as planned and promised by ‘sweet’ cohens friends … [chvsh again]
and you will have the honored [and probably equally ‘sweet’] secretary’s prophesy actualized [chvsh again] according to the wishes of this ‘funny hat’ guy …
october 7 serves as a good reminder as to what the friends of our ‘sweet’ cohen are really up to ….
.
.as was the twelve day war in EY when ‘sweet’ cohens other friends
lobbed busses full of explosives at breakneck speed at our innocent brothers and sisters in EY ..
.
.how ‘sweet’ …..
.
Again – yaakov yosef keeps outdoing himself …
.AAQ to YYA :
This seems to be the key, necesssary, part of your position: SC has absolute power, thus Israel is not a democracy and there is no way around it. Therefore, we need to fight against the state. I do not agree. I don’t know how to prove that ….—
I know very well why AAQ can’t prove it .
Because it is impossible to prove something which does not exist ….
.
.checked again and am not scared to be modeh
it is nadler – you are correct in this instance
not shumer
.
.am not judging the ‘sweetness’ of dovid cohen’s personality
like am not judging the ‘sweetness’ of rav kuk’s personality
both of which are totally irrelevant
what matters is the ideas they promote
and like you will totally agree with me re rav kuk , that no matter how ‘sweet’ he might personally appear
nevertheless his views and actions are total anathema
you will understand that 99% of the people reading your lines
feel exactly the same way about dovid cohens actions and views ….
.
.Indeed Secular Zionism is a modern, secular movement that contradicts the foundational principles of Jewish faith.
And Religious Zionism is a misguided movement too , contradicting other principles of Jewish faith.
However, the belief in advocating for the destruction of the medina which practically al pi derech hateva is the only barrier stopping mass pikuach nefesh october 7 style [chvsh] , contradicts many principles of Jewish faith no less.
Three wrongs don’t make a right.
.
.
.@AAQ
listen to what you are proposing
you acknowledged the futility of finding ‘common ground’ with the SC
instead you advocate ‘finding common ground’ with voters
not the extreme voters , but the voters in the middle
I hear
but what is this going to accomplish ?
the power does not lie with the voters anymore
as REALITY has taught us – repeatedly
finding ‘common ground’ , as you are well aware , includes give and take
I do know what the ‘give’ will include …
but there is no ‘take’ , as those voters are anyways powerless to deliver on the issues which really matter
so, to rephrase your suggestion , in other words
you advocate for a capitulation , a sellout , give without take …
—
very important notice here – we are not talking at all about altruistic giving here
giving without thought of recompense
an area in which haredi society EXCELLS …
am talking about modifying aspects of our children’s education and way of life – for what ?
.
.
.@Avi K
you asked what’s wrong with a license
cannot speak for rav shach
but can offer my own thoughts
rambam writes that to truly acquire the crown of torah , one should not take his mind of the torah towards other things
a driver license for a yeshiva bachur, is an opening to many ‘other things’ where his mind could be, and should not be
if we want to produce students adorned by the ‘crown of torah’ , that is
..
.
The fact is that Senate Majority Leader Shumer did quote the religious anti zionists who appear in the media as justification for his speech advocating certain arms deliveries.
Not Nadler .
Shumer .
.
.It’s clear beyond doubt that you are correct re Hazon Ish’s position
He is on clear public record opposing draft of yeshiva boys with every fiber of his being .
Any attempt to claim otherwise is nothing less than holocaust revisionism .
SQUARE , by posting such nonsense , is seriously impinging his own credibility .
.
.We Jews have the choice to actively reject the NK who join murderers , condemn those evil people who implicitly support violence against our own brothers , and work to teach those Jews who have been misled , that the path of Torah is not the path of NK or any other false substitute for ga’avah and bad midoth .
.
.fully agree
rav shach did not hold army service to be lehathila for any religious person
but he did not hold it to be universally yehareg veal yaavor for the non learners
rav shach was also known to tell his talmidim to stand still for the full minute of the siren on yom hazikaron
but he did rail publicly against zionism
he made a point of being maspid satmar rav in his yeshiva’s main bet hamidrash
—
the lesson of all that is that not everything is black and white , like some posters are trying to portray it ….
.
.AAQ is Jewish
that much is sure …
ironclad proof from AAQ’s posts
reality stares him straight into his face
and still , true to the time honored Jewish midah of am keshei oref
AAQ keeps on ignoring it ….
he has a magic wand and voila …
he makes reality disappear …
he simply says the following magic formula : do not get bogged down in details ….
what you do not see , does not exist and … shalom al yisrael ….
.
.have no reason to doubt AAQ’s personality
am referring only to his suggestions and observations
.
.satmar rav, as far as I can remember, does not address hashmatat haposkim
please correct me , with his answer and page number ….
.
.otherwise we will have to ask somejew the following question :
are you joking ?
or did you lose your integrity ?
.
.Agree with yaakov yosef re the point of no practical application of the oaths in any case
but this has become a staple of the continuous hijacking attempt
am referring to the repeated attempts to co opt legitimate protesters against evil influences and evil actions by the medina
and remake them into blind , no-matter-the-cost , fanatical opponents of the medina …
these are misleading and dishonest portrayals of the mainstream majority haredi rabanim
that’s the reason of the recurring debate about the oaths
.
.
..
.
.@AAQ
mendlesohn is not a victim as per your attempted portrayal
mendlesohn was a perpetrator
and is responsible to a great extent for his and subsequent generations’ downfall
if mendlesohn would have been inactive , instead of active
the whole situation of klal yisrael would have been very different and much much better
the wholesale assimilation of german jewry is due to his influence
and the cruel annihilation program in that very same country a century and a half later
is a result of this assimilation
if mendlesohn would have been a makir et mekomo notwithstanding his superior intellect
and would , instead of charting his own course , collaborated , taken advice and let himself be guided by the sages of his generation
then his name would be counted amongst the great
but now his name belongs amongst those mentioned leshimtsah
.
.tactics of somejew , ujm and katan
within the overall strategy of propaganda in favor of their almost idol like misrepresentation of judaism
repeat ad nauseam baseless exaggerations about the evil of zionism
by quoting real gedolei yisrael out of context
ignoring other relevant facts and obvious questions
retreat when those questions are posed
and reappear a while later , hoping the public will have forgotten about those unanswered question
and restart with the very same baseless exaggerations and lack of context
all the while relying – or hoping to rely – on the public’s short memory ….
.
.YYA :
The problem is that the Israeli SC gave itself de facto the powers of the President of the United States, where every law and every appointment automatically needs their approval or veto.——————
Would like to correct you here if I may …
Israeli SC gave itself MORE THAN the powers of the elected President of the United States , as the President’s veto can be overridden by 2/3ds of Congress
whereas
the unelected SC’s power is totally unchecked
they have the power , TAKEN BY THEMSELVES , to override even the unanimous knesset
—-think about this – unelected , power taken by themselves
what is this , if not a putsch ?
no matter what so called “indexes” are being used to brainwash people who are perfectly able to think for themselves ….
.
.ujm : I’m beginning to see you may mean well (in making factually incorrect statements) but you are politically uneducated. Schumer played absolutely no role in depriving Israel from American arms. This is an unassailable fact.
—lol .
the fact is that the Senate Majority Leader is one of the top four elected officials in the most powerful country in the world
his words are taken VERY SERIOUSLY all over the world
including the biden administration who did withhold weapons .
and including many European countries who imposed embargoes
—–mr ujm -which of these lines are incorrect ?
and why ?
please educate us , the ‘politically uneducated’ ….
Does the Biden Administration reckon with the publicly stated opinion of the Senate Majority Leader , or not ?
.
.@AAQ
at the end of your unrealistic post , you came a drop closer to reality – yes that all important pivotal word ….
you started to acknowledge that Israelis may have a different way of operating , and that they may ignore consensus
I would say to that – well done reb AAQ
the Israeli reality is the ONLY reality which counts , not the US reality and not the European reality
and for sure not the utopia , we , or AAQ or anyone else, would wish to be reality
how we think ‘complex democracies’ SHOULD WORK or OUGHT TO WORK is totally irrelevant
the only issue which matter is how the country ACTUALLY WORKS .
as long as you fail to recognize this all important point
all your suggestions are worthless
so , let’s all repeat together again
REALITY – REALITY – REALITY ……
.
.to qualify my previous post re rav shachs postion of non learners in the IDF ….
its extremely important to remember that the IDF in those times is not the same IDF as in 2025
the IDF from 2025 is under the command of the evil supreme court who gradually and illegally took power from the nineties and onwards
and drastically worsened the IDF with regard to a boy from a religious home or someone stiving to be religious on his own …
.
.so it could very well be that rav shach would not be that quick to force a bachur to the IDF ….
ujm :
This is a complete lie, falsehood, canard and fiction. The Chazon Ish and Rav Elazar Menachem Man Shach never ever supported Chareidi men — even though who are NOT learning Torah — from routinely enlisting in the IDF.
——————-I cannot comment about hazon ish
but I can comment about rav shach
I remember myself that when rav shach was president of va’ad hayeshivot in ey
the va’ad hayeshivot was legally recognized by the IDF as sole certifier of those who were ‘toratam umnutam’
this was – by the way – AFTER 1977 , after the likud under pm meachem begin took over the country after decades of left wing rule
the va’a hayeshivot under directive of rav shach withheld its certification from any bachur who took out a driving license
thus FORCING that bachur to enlist
even if that bachur learnt full three sedarim a day behatmada , if he took out a license , he was out – and drafted
this was clear public knowledge across all yeshivot in ey
so much for the documented position of rav shach re non learners enlistment in the IDF ….
another important saying , also publicly known at the time, of rav shach :
any non learner falsely registering as a learner is nothing less than a rodef …..
.
.
I remember those things as they were happening .
.
.… falling for slander by YY Jacobson …. [somejew to YYA]
—
what is that all about ?
.
.katan and somejew went on an extended holiday …..
how convenient ….
no need to answer questions ….
no accountability ….
.
.dati leumi priests ….. [somejew]
—to call the NK murderers is also not accurate …
but more accurate
than calling the dati leumi rabanim ‘priests’ ….
.
.