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a debate with someone who IN ADVANCE excludes one side is an obvious exercise in fulility.
you are not acting as a judge , as you should …
you act as a lawyer …. for a failed cause
you are hopeless …
as long as you operate in this way , there is no hope for you to reach the emet
nor do you have any chance to convince any one of your totally of the mark shtuyot
even when they are dressed up as a torah shitah
sorry about that
but these are the plain facts
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rescue is already up to criticising hazal ….
who knows whats next ….
ideology , when correct, is excellent …
long live ideology !
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@chaim 87
which frum rosh hakohol from budapest ?
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.your questions to LAboy are on the mark
and bet you will not get an on the point response
for the simple reason that none exists …
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agree with qwertyqwerty
they are stupid posts
and baseless posts
and dangerous posts
phil apparently thinks that he is sitting in the steaming mikva
announcing his sevarot keres …
and does not realize he is mefarsem his shtuyot across the world
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.somejew is to be thanked for his honesty , at least in this particular instance ….
somejew bepeh malei , agreed that he is NOT looking at both sides … this in a matter of clear pikuach nefesh [!!!]
somejew agreed that he is not approaching this pikuach nefesh matter as a torah judge
rather as an exercise of disfiguration of his braincells in a futile attempt to rationalize his preconceived adherence to the most extreme version of the satmar shitah
meaning that somejew decided , before [!!] his examination of original torah sources [!!] that his version of the shavu’ot is docheh pikuach nefesh
and only after the fact …. is searching hazal for justification for his fanatical position.
in other words … somejew is prepared for the mass slaughter chvsh , of others [not his own immediate family …] without examination of torah sources
kedarkah shel torah , as practised in all other issues of torah psak , during all previous generations ….
this should serve as the ultimate disqualification of somejew of being worthy of any contribution on any subject relating to the jews of EY …
and as a timely reminder of the power of dei’ot kedumot to corrupt normal thinking ….
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.philosopher and carlsson … a good pair ….
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.philosopher thinks he lives in an alternate universe
no wonder — he grew up in ….
his comments are fitting for real antisemites
he apparently feels no achrayut whatsoever towards his brothers
there were people in WW2 who sold their own father and mother for a nezid adashim
wonder what philosopher would have done in those circumstances ….
hahamim hizahru bedivreichem ….
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.somejew apparently is living in a bubble
he claims that the medina has to be destroyed because it was made by reshaim ….
when confronted by rambam in hakdama to mishnayot where rambam writes that the rbsh’o organises a rasha to build a palace
in order that it should come to use for a tsadiq much later ….
because … yachin rasha ve tsadiq yilbash
somejew answered that rambam is not talking about a rasha like the tsiyonim
so ….
saw yalkut shimoni ester perek 3 .
yachin rasha ve tsadiq yilbash is referring to hamans house built by haman preparing for mordechai and binyan bet hamikdash
proof that even an amaleki rasha like haman that principle applies
so why can that principle not apply to the medina ?
they work hard , prepare everything , to be taken over by a tsadiq , like mashiach ?
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.A] the pashtut in YD 157 is that barring shaat hashmad there are only 3 averot which are yehareig veal yaavor , all others p/n is doche them
meaning that p/n is doche the shavu’ot as they are not one of the three
you have not yet furnished an answer in any of your posts …
– A1] the language of SH’A YD is clear – only 3 averot are yehareig ve’al yaavor
– A2] ktsot hachoshen [think in CM 87 ] clearly says that hashmata of SH’A is proof that he disagrees
– A3] there is no proof nor logic offered that breaking the shavu’ot is somehow avoda zara
– A4] breaking the shavu’ot has no connection with shat shmad . shat shmad is a condition which aggravates the halacha of an issur which is done .
there is no shat shmad forcing someone to beak the shavu’ot . there is pikuach nefesh which is matir the shavu’ot [if applicable]
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.B] You claimed that the current situation in EY without an active IDF is not p/n , because the people can run away …
you have not brought any reasonable practical plan how ‘running away’ is going to preclude the p/n resulting from the IDF being inactive ….
– B1] your position is not only illogical to the extreme , it is disingenuous . you attempt to prove that since no one is running away now , that there is
no chashash p/n .the point was that WITHOUT IDF there is p/n . how does the lack of running away now , WITH THE IDF , prove anything re the situation without
the idf ? ?
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.C] Sure you insinuated that rav chaim is a zuken mamre – rav chaim clearly said in public that fallen IDF soldiers are begeder harugei lud
this appellation – zuken mamre – , was used by you so as to not accept rav chaims statement …
D] you repeatedly claim that we should ignore p/n issues in EY because everything and anything wrong in the entire middle east is the exclusive fault of the zionists … if only they would have not ‘invaded’ [using your crooked language] there would be no p/n ….
therefore we somehow should ignore this supposedly zionist manufactured p/n …
– D1 ] that’s not straw manning al all . this is an accurate description of your repeated comments on these pages
– D2 ] zionists never ‘invaded’ …. they immigrated ……. like the shevet halevi with his rabbanit …. .
if someone ‘invaded’ … it was the seven arab armies who invaded in ’48 with their militaries to push the jews into the sea …
and to surpass the mongol massacres [language from the SC general of the arab league] ….
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.even if the facts and your portrayal do align … even then …. you have not at all explained why this is relevant to the way we are obligated to respond …
does hatsala not respond with hilul shabat to address avoidable emergencies ?
does hatsala not respond with hilul shabat to address self created emergencies ?
you simply keep on skirting the real issues ….
– D2] you totally ignored this point . — is the source of the p/n relevant when deciding to be docheh issurei torah [non hamurot] ?
yes or no ?
if your answer is yes , why is that different to hatsalah being mechalel shabat to save someone who knowingly created his own p/n ?
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.E] No , you did not admit to the clear words of avnei nezer
you did not admit that someone transgressing the oaths did not transgress a halacha
– E1] am not sure whether you yourself understand what you wrote ….
the question was – does avnei nezer write those words …. that the shavu’ot are not lehalacha …. yes or no
do you have enough of bikush emet to agree to this simple fact ….. ? ?
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.F] Steipler clearly limits the halachik illegality of the medina to its ESTABLISHMENT .
this is in the letter re the obligation to vote
you have never admitted to this , although this is the clear meaning of his words
– F1] ‘the steipler clearly writes that the mere existence of the medina is not against the shavu’ot’
thats what I wrote before
now I write that —- ‘Steipler clearly limits the halachik illegality of the medina to its ESTABLISHMENT’
Is there a contradiction between those two statements … ??
where is your bikush ha’emet ? ?
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.G] somejew should answer the following:
somejew never owned up to point that halacha everywhere is not decided by what would , could or should have been — only by what is …
this is extremely simple — whenever the p/n question comes up , somejew’s automatic response is —- its the fault of the zionists ….
if they would not ….. than there would be no p/n ….
can somejew , once and for all admit , that this type of reasoning is NEVER used in any other halachik deliberation re p/n …. ? ? ?
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H] somejew has never owned up to the fact that avnei nezer clearly writes that haskamat ha’umot will negate the shavu’otI do not have avnei nezer handy now .
he definitely says it at the end of his tshuvot in YD . I saw it with my own eyes .
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.somejew has zero bikush ha’emet
somejew approaches every question as a failed lawyer would
somejew shoots his arrow and then paints the circles around them
somejew is an eved nirtsah to the most extreme version of the shitah hakdosha and therefore lost his ability of coherent thought
somejew will not be zocheh to come to an emet based maskana until he frees his mind from the shackles of predetermined brainwash
somejew should accept the methods of the gadol and the tsadiq the hazon ish who never reached a maskana without
a rigorous process of learning with all his might , without bias , first like one side of the debate , bringing any possible proof
then exactly the same for the other side
and then with real yir’at shamayim comparing both and
only then deciding which one is more emet
that is the required method , kedarka shel torah , to arrive at a real torah conclusion
somejew’s repeated comments are a fitting antithesis to the hazon ish’s approach ….
instead of approaching these hamur pikuach nefesh questions like a failed lawyer
somejew should approach them like real torah judge , genuinely considering both sides …..
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.LA Boy is disingenuous when he compares ‘bench throwing’ in a certain yeshiva by a few indivuduals
to changing ikarei emuna by recognized representatives of a shared movement
changing ikarei emuna by representatives of a shared movement has huge implications
throwing benches by individuals and the like , are individual misdeeds which are sadly not only confined to that specific yeshiva
and could be found in other non litvish argument settings too , by the way …
silence in the face of changes in ikarei emuna in your own movements name, constitutes agreement
silence in the face of individual misbehavior in the course of existing public disagreement over real estate ownership is something totally different
any level headed person would agree …
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.lol.
somejew apparently is living in a bubble
saw just today yalkut shimoni ester perek 3 .
yachin rasha ve tsadiq yilbash is referring to haman preparing for mordechai and binyan bet hamikdash
proof that even an amaleki rasha like haman that principle applies
so why can that principle not apply to the medina ?
they work hard , prepare everything , to be taken over by a tsadiq , like mashiach ?
does yalkut shimoni count as a ‘fact of our holy torah’ ?
so mr priest who goes by the moniker of somejew
please do tshiva and give us your teshuva honestly , maybe you will have a chance to get out of your mess ….
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.Do you have a valid case …
can’t see why not ?
should you let it go …. that depends on many other individual considerations ….
the only reason you write your comments , is that you simply cannot imagine life in a different society to yours …
this is the plain reality
millions considered nazi outlook as ‘common sense’
that is a fact
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.This isnt a question about horthy’s merits or otherwise
the issue was about the life of a jew in hungary pre march 1944 .
that heavily depended on who you were
if your citizenship papers were 100 % , then you were either a second or third class citizen , that is , if you were not drafted in the famous munkatabors
where your limbs and life were at great risk , depending on the whims of your particular commander
and if there were any issues with your papers , your life would be much more than ‘at risk’ , because you could be quite sure to be sent straight to the germans
with a generous ‘2 % probability of survival
—
for example :
The “Fourth Jewish Law” (September 6, 1942) banned Jews from owning or purchasing land.
Hungarian troops in 1942 murdered over 3,000 Jews in the Bačka region.
Their employment in government at any level was forbidden, their numbers were restricted to six per cent among, physicians, lawyers and engineers.
Private companies were forbidden to employ more than 12% Jews.
250,000 Hungarian Jews lost their income.
Most of them lost their right to vote.
The commanders of the labour battalions often treated the Jewish units with extreme cruelty, abuse, and brutality.
Men who worked in mine quarries were frequently pushed to their deaths off the man-made cliffs and embankments.
These labour units were stationed all over Hungary, including 130,000 men at the Eastern Front in occupied Ukraine where most of the men died.
The gendarmes and Army men who guarded these “slaves” were mostly anti-Semitic, fascists.
These labour battalions were introduced in May 1939 by Prime Minister Teleki.
According to one historian , of the 40, 000 Hungarian Jewish men drafted into the Labour battalions between 1940-1942, only 5, 000 survived by 1943 .
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.the undeserved epithets you routinely throw at your innocent debaters serve as additional proof to what I wrote ….
fools ….
zionist ….
catholic …..
dont care about torah ….
idolatry ….
response kedarka shel torah will come bln ….
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.the fact is that millions of people when asked , would sincerely answer that they are following ‘common sense’ …
agree that they were brainwashed
so were the millions following stalin and mao
but so were the entire population of feudal europe …
so how do you know to judge what really is ‘common sense’ ?
maybe you are also influenced by society around you ??
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.@aaq
Wallenberg operated there under the german occupation and hungarian arrow cross gov ym’sh , post march ’44
protected only by the neutral swedish flag
hungary deserves zero credit for wallenberg
they worked against wallenberg
—
hungary pre march 44 did not have so called “anti semitic” policies …only in quotation marks ….
they had REAL antisemitic policies … with real mass jewish casualties , real jewish deportations , real jewish impoverishment as a direct result …
the only bright point about that period is … that after march ’44 , it got much , much worse …
a very small consolation ….
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.@aaq
even when hungary was ‘independent’ pre – march 1944 , there was huge institutional government sanctioned antisemitism against jews with hungarian citizenship
they were allied to hitler , fought on his behalf in russia and did who knows what, to the local jews there
they deported masses of jews to the germans in poland ukraine and czechoslovakia only to be brutally murdered there
granted – it was ‘better’ than after march 1944 ….
or rather — after march 1944 it became much worse …
thats way more accurate ….
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.@aaq
… Poland was at actual war for 6 years, occupied form the beginning by Germany and USSR. How Poles behaved varied …
[aaq]—
poland was terrible for jews , overall
even after the war , were there pogroms against the jews all over poland with many jewish fatalities hy’d
compare with denmark , also under german occupation for similar time …. over 90 % of jews survived
in poland …. over 90 % of jews were murdered …
testimonies from survivors abound about the general attitude re the jews within poland during the war
diaries written as events were taking place, give an accurate idea of whats was going on at the time …
diaries tell of hasidie umot haolam who risked their lives rescuing jews , begging them to keep their heroic deeds secret even after the war
lest they suffer adverse consequences if their jew loving activities become public …
a damning indictment of the general mood of society …
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.even the people who ‘like’ habad do not support their falsifications of yahadut
everyone agrees on this point
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Rightjew should go a midbar and proclaim his terrible advice to all interested parties and leave us alone …
why is a yeshiva news site publicizing such drivel ?
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.your response only proves my point …
.@square
the secular are the ones who belong amongst the non jews
after all they are the ones who keep on copying them …
.hitler sincerely believed he was following common sense
he was not lying
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so did millions of his followers and admirers
read up about them …
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so did the soviets and the communists in china under mao.
so did the ancients in sparta
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.ujm is not at all achieving his objective by using the N slur
instead of lowering the reputation of the israeli police to the level of the nazi’s ….
he is succeeding in one thing only — elevating the nazi’s reputation to the level of the israeli police , which admittedly happens to be a very low level ….
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.lol.
according to somejew , his debaters are
A] fools
B] priests
C] reshaim
D] ignoramuseswhat does that say about somejew …..
about his humility …..
about his midot …..
Besides the point … legufo shel inyan … od chazon lamo’ed ….
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.“Anyone” is falling into the trap of classic habad propaganda
which focuses on the good habad does and thereby covering for the radical theological changes from milenia old yahadut
no one disputes the good habad does , the issue is the changes habad introduced
if ‘anyone’ wants to defend habad , he should explain those changes .
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very simple question
what would the nazi answer when questioned about his beliefs ?
would he claim to follow common sense , or not ?
could he be sincere about it ?
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ujm is again invoking the N slur
objectively , there is no comparison at all between what the nazi’s did to what the israeli police does
as much as the israeli police are to be condemned
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@shalom al israel
all this serves as a timely reminder that the yehudim in EY are in galut in their own land between their own brothers
very far from any athalta degeoula ….
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.quotes from dershowits are not holy at all
but when he talks sense we should listen
in this instance he talks perfectly sense
there is no use in putting our heads in the sand
that’s outright dangerous , and besides …. reality will not change by one iota
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.Seems that in somejew’s tanach it says “veameich kulam reshaim” instead of “veameich kulam tsadikim” …..
it seems that somejew has a different torah , different to the torah of klal yisrael ledoroteihem …
in somejew’s torah there seems no place for elu ve’elu …
in somejew’s torah , facts and logic don’t seem to matter
in somejew’s torah , there is no openness to arrive at a conclusion kedarka shel tora
in somejew’s torah every maskana is predetermined to be subservient to a rigid and narrow ideological straightjacket
no wonder that somejew ends up being megaleh panim batorah shelo kehalacha and in the process being mevazah gdolei olam ….
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humility …..
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.am not being stupid ,
dont have a sword , so cannot put it down , sorry
you still did not answer my question
what you define as ‘common sense’ is to a large extent derived from your surroundings
you view it as an objective criteria , used to judge whats right whats wrong
you dont realize that it really is a subjective yardstick , a reflection of your surrounding , their and your biases
there is no person and no society without biases
hence the very different ‘common senses’ in vogue in different societies
so the question is alive and kicking – how do you know which ‘common sense’ is the correct one ??
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maharl diskin says that those who are dan lekaf chov are not harming the people they are dan
they harm themselves ….
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.anon1m0us ‘ s post to UJM is plainly despicable and has no place on a yeshiva news site …
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.Why did rescue not answer the question ?
Is it because he has none ?
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.Have not forgotten about you …
How could I …
You are the only one from whom I get such terrific compliments …
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.Lol.
somejew is in a good mood lately …
somejew , whenever he is struggling with reading comprehension … gets in to good moods and dispenses compliments in a real royal fashion …
kdushat levi said that crooked logic should be employed in order to be melamed zhut on yehudim …
for sure , if straight logic is available , straight logic is preferable …
but when according to straight logic there is no limud zhut , then we should employ crooked logic …
and that , says the famous kdushat levi zhuto yagen aleinu , was the purpose of the creation of ‘crooked logic’ …
for example it is recounted that kdushat levi , when encountering a yehudi polishing his carriage in the middle of shmone esreh , lifted his eyes up to
heaven and said RBSH’O – look at your precious nation , even in the middle of polishing their carriages , they pray …
now — using this type of crooked logic to be melamed hov … runs according to kdushat levi , counter the purpose of ‘crooked logic’s creation
hope somejew understood it the second time around ….
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.yechiell lives in lala land.
he doesn’t have the foggiest idea what gestapo did , and what they stood for …
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yechiell is reminiscent of a fool ….and that is a much more accurate statement than yechiell’s …..
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.??
.koifer beikur
chose an appropriate nickname …
a mevaze talmid haham is similar to a koifer beikur …
another name he could have used is … mehutsaf ….
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.heard that the famous kdushat levi once remarked … why did God create crooked logic ? What is the point ?
whereupon he answered that crooked logic was created to be used for melamed zhut on the yehudim
think of that famous quote from this famous melamed zhut , whenever I hear crooked logic being used to be melamed chov ….
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.was referring to another heter — not apei tlata …
.interesting how members of the most ‘conforming’ sects run around in hospitals supporting the most ‘non conforming’ people imaginable ….
just one small example of the widespread other side of the coin you totally ignore ….
re your observation of the ‘rich’ wedding — it seems that you could do with some improvement of your ‘ayin tova’ ….
in yiddish its called farginnen …
in german … the original source of yiddish it does not exist , I am told ….
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.I seem to remember that there is no issur lashon hara on something which is anyway clear public knowledge
thats not referring to the ‘heter’ of apei tlata
might be wrong here …
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.from your responses I realized that I did not explain properly
does judaism oppose ‘conformity’ in itself ? absolutely not
does judaism impose ‘conformity’ in of itself ? absolutely not
judaism demands nothing less nor more than … judaism
now … if judaism is enhanced by ‘conformity’ , than judaism would be advocating for it , in that particular circumstance
…. if judaism is hampered by ‘conformity’ , than judaism would be advocating against it , in that particular circumstance
imagine an orthodox jew in the late soviet union — judaism would stress he should not ‘conform’ …. by every fiber of his being !
if everyone in shul talks in the middle of hazarat hashatz — again… judaism would stress he should not ‘conform’ …. by every fiber of his being !
it is extremely simplistic to say that judaism demands conformity … and extremely wrong too …
I would venture to say that the entire essence of judaism is “non-conformity” , meaning … not conforming with the outside world …
it is correct to note that in many subgroups within judaism there is a high level of conformity …
but does judaism perse demand that ? … I have not found any source within judaism demanding this …
I would suggest the members of the conformist groups are conforming … as a way of coping with being “the non conformist” vis a vis the outside world
besides this …
there is tremendous creativity within judaism …
walk in to any serious, self respecting bet midrash … and only look at the walls … you are literally surrounded by untold levels of creativity ….
you call that ‘stifling’ ????
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