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Why would you want to recreate Lakewood in EY???
It’s obvious Ujm is a tuna beigel. I’m willing to put money on that
Which American Chareidim are moving to EY? Chasidim are staying put. Lakewood is growing.
And Bobov evidently don’t hold of Telz
I really want to hear about the profound trauma that Avira went through. It’s so obvious. She told us she grew up MO and then became chareidi. Share for the group please.
And clearly, Gur don’t hold of Mir.
I think it’s obvious that Eidah Chareidis doesn’t hold of Ponovezh.
Do you think Satmar holds of Chaim Berlin? You’re mistaken.
You realize you are willing to be mafkir 80% of world Jewry? Shouldn’t we do everything in our ability to keep them in the fold? No one is saying to compromise Halacha. But there is more than one way to approach these things.
Also, what profound trauma did you go through that you have these views? Share with us.
I think that Reform became Reform BECAUSE of that approach. In other words, because they were pushed aside, they went further astray. Instead of keeping them in the fold, and being mekarev them or at the very least, trying to find Halachic solutions to the issues they had, they pushed them away and they became more extreme.
Why make a “world” out of the Torah or a Yeshiva? Keilu, we’re on the inside and you guys (meaning people who are less affiliated) are on the outside. Aren’t we one nation? It’s true that those who are committed to learning have a zchus and a maila. But can’t we all consider all yidden to be in the same oilam?
What’s the certain meaning?
Are Satmar Yeshivas part of the Yeshiva world?
So why did mdd1 make it seem like only the “well known” American yeshivas are part of the Yeshiva world? This demonstrates a severely closed-mindedness, typical of contemporary American religious Jewry.
If they are Chayav Misa then give them Misa. I’m not against that. But solitary confinement for 25 years is cruel and unusual punishment. Your answers make me question if you guys are from Zera Yisroel. No rachmanus.
Not according to mdd1
America is obsessed with solitary confinement and supermax prisons. Isn’t that barbaric? Isn’t watching 20 first graders being mowed down and ignoring the gun and mental health issues barbaric?
Is a small Yeshiva in the middle of Teheran part of the yeshiva world? Is a Dati Leumi yeshiva part of the yeshiva world? Is a Jewish day school in Paris part of the yeshiva world?
Ever Jew has a cheilek in Torah. Even those Jews who don’t make it a central part of their lives and even if they are not medakdeik in every (or any) Mitzvah.
Is someone who doesn’t like in Lakewood, but say, Denver and studies Torah when he can part of the Torah world? Is a simple Jew who only knows Tehillim part of the Torah world?
And instead of stopping and saying “hmm, perhaps YO has a point here that I can ponder, even if I ultimately don’t agree with it”, you’re kneejerk reaction is to call me “stubborn”, or “inferiority/superiority complex”, etc. etc.
“It means dressing Jewish. Jews dress differently than gentiles. And they should dress differently than gentiles.”
So in order to dress like a Jew it needs to be “Yeshivish” dressing? Wearing brown slacks and a maroon shirt would be considered unbecoming of a Jew?
“Yabia…the way people dress in the yeshiva world. Black and white, with a fedora.”
Please seem my other thread. Who owns the Yeshiva world? Who decides what is and is not considered part of the Yeshiva world? Do all Jews who study in a Yeshiva subscribe to this mode of dress.? There is no Yeshiva World. Lo Haya velo nivra. And it is certainly not dictated by some MO-turned-Chareidi from Passaic or Five Towns who decides.
“keep dressing yeshivish”. What does that even mean?
Not all pressure is explicit.
You are right. There is an opinion that says a black suit and a hat is now the “uniform” of Bnei Torah and it is irrelevant that it happened to come from Europe. I get that.
Zushy, no one chas veshalom is contesting Rav Ovadia.
Avira: I don’t want them to dress like anything. They should dress however they wish without compulsion to fit in some kind of box.Perhaps they were lenient based on solid halachic grounds? You are proving that there is a preference to be machmir (RE: my other thread).
like which stories?
They should just dress as they would’ve anyway without any compulsion to look like an Eastern European. If that means jeans and a t-shirt and they are overall good Yidden, so what’s wrong with that? If it means a turban and being very ehrlich, so what?
The point is: Educate yourselves. The more education and togetherness there is, the less ignorance there is.
1. The outward appearance (hats, frocks, peyos, black and white, etc.)
2. Their stance on Zionism. Although they are probably the most lenient with Zionism in comparison to other “chareidi” factions, they still harbor a somewhat hostile view towards the state. If you look at the writings of countless Sefardish rabbonim in the past, they had an affinity to the idea of the State. This is a fact.
3. The kollel system. This is a modern, Ashkenazic invention. By kollel system I mean that people en masse do not work and instead learn long term. This NEVER existed in Sephardic lands. There were yechidim who did that but by and large, parnasa was encouraged. Even Rabbonim worked.
4. Adopting more machmir approaches to Halacha like the Litvish tend to do.
There are other examples but these are the main ones. The reason we like Shas is because we relate to it. We relate to it because it was copied from us.No one should get offended from this. People should just realize that the Litvish derech is not universal. There are other ways of thinking.
Who said Sephardic was being an illiterate farmer? What I mean is that Shas is a copy and paste of Lithuanian Chareidi Hashkafa. It’s not that Sephardim are not into Torah etc. Of course they are. But it’s HOW they approach Yiddishkeit. Shas does not represent this at all. Shas tries to emulate the Lithuanian derech. It’s not natural at all. It’s quite artificial and alien. And most Sephardim in Israel DO NOT vote Shas. That’s just a blatant lie.
It’s so obvious that we Ashkenazim are just too closed minded to appreciate the authentic Sephardic derech.
Who says that simply waiting is considered a Hefsek?
Shas did a lot of great things. But that does nto stop it from being effectively a Lithuanian party. It has nothing to do with primacy of Torah. It has to do with an outlook that is so unnaturally Sephardic. Chareidi Ashkenazim relate to it because it so mirrors their way of life. But how would Avira understand that? She can’t!
Shas is (lamentably) a Lithuanian Haredi party which is Sephardic in name only. Nothing that Shas represents religiously, culturally etc is representative of how Sephardim were historically.
So now Avira is changing her position. Now she’s saying that it’s the STUDY that’s not central. Why do we have to add to what Chachmei HaMishna said? We’re smarter than them? They said at 5 Mikra, at 10 Mishna etc.
If “Gedolim” and “Roshei Yeshiva” are saying to neglect Mikra, then yes I’m am absolutely saying I know better than them. Like one poster said, Mikra is LITERALLY the word of Hashem. What’s the matter with you guys? As I once heard some say, “מתוך אהבתם לתורה שכחו את הקב”ה”
Mikra IS the basis of all Torah. Period. Someone who says otherwise has had an interruption in his Mesora. Perhaps you are not Zera Israel?
This is a ridiculous thread. We’re talking about whether or not Tanach, the basis of all Torah, should be taught??
I’ve spoken to many Sefardim and Mikra/Tanach is a very big part of their mesora. Maybe because they didn’t have to deal with Haskala. For them, to ask them this question “Should Tanach be taught” is preposterous.
Avira, and who are you exactly to have an opinion?
100% Tanach should be taught. Not even a question.