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Yabia OmerParticipant
Lakewhut, what did she say that was so bad?
Yabia OmerParticipantTuition: Exactly! Hamevin yavin.
Yabia OmerParticipantHaha. It’s called know your audience Ubq
Yabia OmerParticipantSatmar as a movement is only about 107 years old. There isn’t some “ancient mesora” that they have. You know how many Satmar people I met that can’t even trace their lineage more than 2 generations as Satmar? Probably the majority.
Yabia OmerParticipantIf Joseph is a Satmar, then no matter what anyone says about Israel won’t be good enough to convince him.
Yabia OmerParticipantWho says ALL yeshivas learn in the so-called “Brisk” style? That’s a flat out fallacy.
Yabia OmerParticipantI think everyone agrees that the Torah level in Israel is higher than America. America is very parve.
Yabia OmerParticipantGH: I tell Satmar people ALL THE TIME that if R Yoel saw Israel today he’d totally change his mind.
Yabia OmerParticipantIt does not bother me to call it Eretz Israel. It just seems that many people do it bedavka as though it is more “religious”.
Yabia OmerParticipantRav Yoel named himself the Rebbe of Satmar in 1912. Satmar is a 20th century phenomenon. Nekuda.
Yabia OmerParticipantI am not denying the fact that there is a concept of Eretz Israel. Of course the Land, which transcends any political boundaries, is holy. What I am saying is what is so wrong with simply saying “my son learns in Israel” or “I just cam back from a trip to Israel”?
Yabia OmerParticipantThe thing is, Israel is an actual country in the world. Whether you agree with “Zionism” or not, it’s a country. It would be like if your son learned in Yeshiva in Rome and you said “my son’s learning in Edom”. You wouldn’t say that. You’d say Italy like a normal person. Hu Hadin with Israel.
Yabia OmerParticipantBut I think Sephardic pronunciation is more correct thus frummer. Why is there an “o” sound? Makes no sense. Kamatz SOMETIMES makes o but not always.
Yabia OmerParticipantWhy do you guys refer to it as Eretz Yisroel? Is it somehow less frum to just call it Israel?
Yabia OmerParticipantIn housing court. I was in college and the landlord wanted to evict us so that he could renovate the building. We eventually got like 6 months rent-free. When I came back to campus the following conversation took place:
Classmate: you know the Twin Towers? They’re gone.
Me: Gone?!
Classmate: GONE!Yabia OmerParticipantWho is this Joseph guy??
Yabia OmerParticipantYes. Bar Minan.
Yabia OmerParticipantIt’ll be a bracha for all Am Yisroel if Jewish communities shift towards a Sephardic mentality/mesora
Yabia OmerParticipantUbq: “Why not fargin others some fun?”
Is fargin where the Hebrew word Lefargen (to compliment) comes from?
Yabia OmerParticipant“Even in the US, there are Livtishe communities that are arguably more radical that average Chassidim.”
Just curious, can you give an example?
Yabia OmerParticipantWhat does it matter what the Eidah thinks? How is that relevant?
Yabia OmerParticipantI thought we settled this. Ashkenazim are descendants of Khazar goyim. Ethiopians are Zera Israel who were converted lechumra.
Yabia OmerParticipantHe had the sources. He was a master of mekorot. I trust him with emuna pshuta. If you want to question everything, zeigezunt. Plus, why are they any more doubtful than the Ashkenazic descendants of Khazars?
Yabia OmerParticipantNo he said Ethiopians are Zera Israel. He’s singlehandedly opened the way for them to make Aliya. The other rabbis were too scared that dark-skinned African people can somehow be Jewish.
As for Ashkenazim, he obviously respected them but he knew their faults and wasn’t scared to tell to them in their collective face.
Yabia OmerParticipantRav Ovadia said they are Zeta Israel. So what’s your point?
Yabia OmerParticipantThere is also a Sephardic Nusach known as Yerushalmi. This is the default Sephardic rite in Israel
Yabia OmerParticipantI don’t think Ethiopians are any more or less Jewish than Ashkenazim
Yabia OmerParticipantI wouldn’t look too deeply in it. It’s like clapping. We wouldn’t make such a chakira on clapping. So hu hadin by ululations… It’s simply a Middle Eastern form of happiness.
Yabia OmerParticipantWhat I mean to ask is: what are your thoughts on this type of learning. For people who may not have patience to just learn only Gemara for long stretches of time. Sugya Learning allows one to learn some Gemara but then also learn Poskim etc. Thoughts?
Yabia OmerParticipantAvi K, although that might be true in the most general sense, there are Jews whose ancestors come from Spain but who also spoke Arabic. Can you time of who this may be?
Yabia OmerParticipantSphardishe.
Yabia OmerParticipantWhy is this custom not observed among the Litvish?
Yabia OmerParticipantI think everyone understands that the split of the 10 Tribes happened waaaay before Jews were categorized as A or S. I think the OP is just trying rile me up.
Yabia OmerParticipantDo you have a Mekor where the Torah/Poskim talk about the need to divide people up into MO, Balabatish, Heimish?
Yabia OmerParticipantYO most definitely has a Neshama that is Yiddish/Jewish/Yehudit (t, feminine, Neshama is f.). I don’t point things out to create machloket. i do it for collective self-reflection. When one is in a group of similar people there is a constant reinforcing feedback loop. Without outside observation, you’ll just keep doing the same things or intensifying those things that you’re already doing.
I agree with the above posters that in America English is probably the most unifying language, Perhaps a few Yiddish and Hebrew speeches are ok. I would imagine most Sefardim would not be offended at all if there were some speeches in Yiddish. You kind of have to know your audience.
I understand that Tanachic Hebrew and MIH are not identical. But I refer to both as Hebrew.
With all due respect to R’ Yoel of Satmar, he is not the final word on the status of Hebrew. He is entitled to his da’at but it is not binding on all Jews.
Yabia OmerParticipantWhat s/he banned?
Yabia OmerParticipantAm I in crazy land? You guys are asking how Hebrew is THE Jewish language?
I don’t get how anyone can be “frum” and not speak Hebrew? This is not a Dati Leumi thing or tzioyni thing. It’s the most basic thing in being a Jew. You learn in Hebrew, pray in Hebrew etc. It’s not like it’s some language that we’re not exposed to at all. Plus go to Israel and even in “Chareidi” yeshivas they speak Hebrew.
Now, I’m not expecting everyone to speak like an Israeli but every observant Jew should have some sort of command of the Hebrew language especially in 2019. An argument could be made for 1850s Poland or Libya. But not now.
Am I in some sort of strange dream?
Yabia OmerParticipantNCB: Differentiating.
Yabia OmerParticipantAvi K is right. Our common language is Hebrew. Why arent’t these rabbis speaking Hebrew? That is the most basic thing a rabbi should know. Forget Sephardim, he VAST majority of American Jews do NOT understand Yiddish.
Yiddish is a part of our collective fabric as a people it is true. But not unifying, not common. Just like Gerush Sfarad is part of our collective history even though not all Jews experienced it.
Yabia OmerParticipantNot sure who or what that is. I heard from a big Talmid Chochom and Banshak.
Yabia OmerParticipantActually I heard from a Choshuv Rav that Sefardim are from Yehuda and A are from Epharim
Yabia OmerParticipantAllan, good point!
Yabia OmerParticipant“Vanachnu korim umishtachavim umodim lipney melek malkay hamlakim” Some people do pronounce it like that and it wouldn’t be incorrect. However please look in a reliable siddur for the accurate words of Alenu Leshabeach.
“Artificial” is used because that’s what it is. There is no mekor in the Torah or Poskim for Balabatish, Yeshivish. These are contemporary A inventions.
The famous Halacha is Hanukkah.
And Sisgodedu?? No one says it like that. סיסגודדו??
Yabia OmerParticipantHolymoly very well said. I don’t agree 100% but well said nonetheless. I would add that A tend to do these things “Beshita” whereas S do things out of convenience, ignorance etc. Usually when an S doesn’t observe Shabbat, they know in “in theory I should be keeping Shabbat”. Doesn’t make it right but at least they are not kofer ba ikar.
Holymoly, you mentioned that the S community took on some Litvish things. Are there any positive S things that the A community has adopted?
Yabia OmerParticipantProbably 10% of American Jews put on Tefilin. And most of them are NOT Sephardic.
Yabia OmerParticipantOk I get the joke. Good one.
Yabia OmerParticipantNCB don’t claim to know which shul I go to. And there you go, another artificial division: “Open Orthodox”. It almost seems like the A community is an expert at dividing up groups. Given enough time, they would be able to categorize 100 identical clones.
Yabia OmerParticipantWannabe what? Wannabe people who know what Hashem wants from them?
There’s a very good expression I heard in Hebrew regarding the Litvish: Mitoch Ahavatam LaTorah, Shechechu Et HKBH.
Yabia OmerParticipantSefardim who go to Ateret were infused with a foreign spirit. Hamevin yavin.
Yabia OmerParticipantJoseph. The majority of American Jews are unaffiliated and intermarried. The vast majority of them are from the A community. So what Halachic observance are you referring to? The most unaffiliated, unobservant Jews are A. In Israel, most Hilonim and anti-religious are A. It’s a fact.
And did you use your Torah-meter to measure whose Torah learning is stronger?
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