Stuck: Of course, many times yeshiva boys and seminary girls need to shop for tzorchei shabbos, even if it’s just a gift for their host or if they’re making shabbos for themselves. People do do it. My family has access to an apartment in the Old City and we always try to get it for my cousins in Israel when it’s available so that they can bring their friends for Shabbos and do it themselves. They come back raving about it.

Of course! Why not?

Everyone was a newbie once…

Baruch haba!

(Bruchah habaah?)

Where in the Torah does it say what Adam and Chava’s respective roles were? All it says is childbirth for Chava and working for Adam, if I remember correctly.

So women working is really gender role switching min hatorah.

“My issue is with complainers who always have complaints against people. Especially to complain about people who are frummer than themselves.” —- cheftze

Ummmmm….

Forget it. I don’t trust myself to comment on this one.

RABBAIM: My point was, think before you post.

I was being totally serious, by the way.

sausage: when marinara gets old

candelabra: the spell to turn lights on

biology: the study of leave-taking

apartment: rural living

I think the school is perhaps justified, depending on the values projected by the school in the first place; HOWEVER, by telling the girls to open one in the first place they are promoting a double standard. They will only make the girls confused as to what is more important— money or shmiras einayim.

Bad move. They need to pick a position and stick to it. What a great example it would be if they had specifically foregone the contest because it would necessitate Facebook, which seems to be against school hashkafah.

I’m not going to say whether I think Facebook is good or bad, though, just because my own opinions on the subject aren’t entirely developed.

Look, honestly, the only reason why I posted here in the first place is because I wanted to know about this program. I haven’t the foggiest idea beyond this post and what I’ve heard over time. That has been my request from the first post.

SO can someone tell me?

Well I can’t really go places to do it first-hand…

Do you mean rewrite it?

I can try.

But I do think that the government should tax chemically based additives and food colorings to the extent they are able.

uneeq: Aren’t many of these communities kiruv/new communities anyway? In that case the population can be split into the kiruv people (who most probably are NOT amaratzim) and the kiruvees, for lack of a better word (who I can see more as pba’s definition of an am haaretz, though that’s unfair as what can be expected of them at an early stage?).

Just because a person doesn’t live in the tri-state area doesn’t mean that he is potentially more likely to be an am haaretz.

pba: No, I didn’t accuse you of gaava. I simply didn’t understand what these things are about, and that was my question: what is it, and what do you do? Nice and simple.

But either way all you’re doing is making generalizations right now. I kind of was also, I know, and I apologize. However, what you said just now is a disservice to all of the balabatim who make it their business to learn as much as they can in addition to their busy work schedules. They are not all amaratzim.

And I don’t know where you did your program, but it isn’t fair to call them amaratzim unless they fit under the descriptions of the tannaim who said that, among other things, an am haaretz is someone who doesn’t put on tefillin or have a mezuzah, doesn’t teach his children Torah, etc. It doesn’t mean “doesn’t learn in kollel.”

Um, Health, does anyone besides you say that Zimmerman only pushed Martin?

Though honestly, quite frankly, if someone jumped on me from behind at night I would probably start punching them, and feel quite justified. Besides, my definition of battery included “unlawful touching or striking” and pushing most probably fits in that category.

PS: Please do not respond unless your response is 100% civil. I just had a really hard day and don’t need anything else to push me down.

Shticky Guy: Yep… I’m just talented that way.

And DON’T do it by Alto Music! The teachers aren’t Jewish, which can be a problem for yamim tovim (though they’re great teachers) and the guy in charge REFUSES to reschedule lessons. It’s an enormous pain in the neck.

I speak from experience, though; I take flute lessons there and I have a great teacher, but the scheduling’s a mess.

I’m not talking about the non-frum kids or their parents. That I can understand. In fact, I hope to be able to go on a kiruv trip in my school next year (if I can raise the money).

I’m talking about the FRUM community. And pba, I DO think it’s gaava to assume that these balabatim are amaratzim just because they’re not in kollel. Just the fact that they’re going to these learning sessions 2 hours a day, as said in the OP, on top of their very busy schedules makes that absolutely demeaning to working people.

And you haven’t answered my question, by the way.

Why do yeshiva bochurim assume that they can be mechazek the balebatim (who are undoubtedly much older than them) and can teach them how to learn? Seems a bit gaavadig unless I’m just not getting the concept.

I’ve known people who went on SEED programs (girls) but those were chaperoned and were meant for the kids in the communities.

Health: Wait a cotton-picking minute.

First, you say, “Yes, he did something wrong and it might even be called Battery (a crime),” and then you say “but this does Not Justify a violent response.”

HUH?

Battery is, according to definitions.uslegal.com, is

“a crime and also the basis for a lawsuit as a civil wrong if there is damage. A battery is any:

a. Willful and unlawful use of force or violence upon the person of another; or

b. Actual, intentional and unlawful touching or striking of another person against the will of the other; or

c. Unlawfully and intentionally causing bodily harm to an individual.”

If you’re admitting that he committed battery, then he obviously was already being violent, which would probably make a “violent response” justified.

Just because you think liberals go too far doesn’t mean you have to go conservative to the extreme.

And there are less infantile ways of making your point than insulting commentors.

morahmom: Yes, I know. I really meant “starting shidduchim” when I mentioned priorities.

Look— my mom and her friends began to date at 19. My mom’s friend got married at 20, my mom at 30, and my mom’s other friend at 40.

My entire point was to

a) put out what I see the numbers at (and by the way, there are PLENTY of outliers at the higher end of the spectrum unfortunately) and

b) to point out that stereotypes mean practically nothing.

The whole question is moot. It depends on your priorities for what you feel you need before marriage— something which is NOT ALWAYS determined by your “grouping” (something which I’ve never quite gotten; where do I apply to find out what group I’m in?). Sometimes yes, especially with chassidim, but otherwise I’ve known of people from 17-60.

Admittedly, the general population I’m counting (ranging from what OTHER PEOPLE call yeshivish to MO) clustered by 20-28 for girls and 22-32 for boys, but there are always outliers.

Ken Zayn: Unfortunately, you’re wrong about some people’s definition of women’s dancing. After my cousin’s wedding, I now do not associate with my mother in public.

Now THAT was embarrassing.

Then again, there is some pretty cool stuff in the men’s section. Like my cousin who did a triple cartwheel in front of the chosson and kallah. I had no idea he could do that.

Yeah. I call it a ‘shidduch thingie.’

longarekel: I’m going to take that as a bracha. AMEIN!!!

And you’re on the right track, but I mean PERFORMING the mitzvah— and there’s a very specific reason why. You’ll be kicking yourself—I know I was when I was first told the answer. It’s not a trick— it’s extremely logical.

Hint: You don’t need to retell the story for newborn babies.

That was a HUGE hint, by the way. Just let your thoughts wander.

I’d better start thinking up some Shavuos Torah…

Oh, gosh, did I really write “one’s”? I usually don’t bother to correct myself for really minor mistakes but that just looks like grammatical ignorance.

If you do a good job and work hard, you may get a job with a better company someday.

The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned off due to budget cuts.

Never put off until tomorrow what you can avoid altogether.

Never quit until you have another job.

Hang in there, retirement is only thirty years away!

Go the extra mile – It makes your boss look like an incompetent slacker.

Daffynitions

{intaxication}: euphoria at getting a tax refund, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with.

{reintarnation}: coming back to life as a hillbilly.

{bozone (n.)): The substance surrounding stupid people that stops bright ideas from penetrating. The bozone layer, unfortunately, shows little sign of breaking down in the near future.

{giraffiti}: vandalism spray-painted very, very, high.

{hipatitis}: terminal coolness.

{glibido}: all talk and no action.

{dopeler effect}: meteorologists take note – the tendency of stupid ideas to seem smarter when they come at you from a computer.

{beelzebug} (n.): Satan in the form of a mosquito that gets into your bedroom at 3 a.m. and cannot be cast out, even by an exorcit.