write or wrong

hudi-I did try to ignore some of the previous posters who seemed to be hurtful, having their own agenda. But more recently, some of the posters accused me of ‘changing’ my story, or changing the facts. This, to me, insinuates that they are looking to find fault with me. I have no reason to alter my story, as painful as it is. And if I don’t give them my social security number and home address, they’ll accuse me of trying to ‘hide something’, and perhaps I was this ‘deceitful’ kind of mother with my OTD child as well. These are not people with good intentions, and as long as the moderators let their posts come through, I find it hard to continue.

As far as the facts being ‘different’, I must say that I have no idea what you mean. One thing is true, and that is, that the situation changes from week to week. Sometimes, it even changes by the day due my son’s constant search for who he is and who he wants to be. If you are not following this thread consistently, it may appear to you that the story keeps changing, but it’s just that the story keeps evolving to a new level.

“as there is a mitzvah to be silent when our words of truth will not be well-received”

Why is it that your words (and everyone else’s) are ‘words of truth’, and mine are not? It is also a mitzvah to give kaf zchus.

Any parent who is in my shoes knows, that no one can be as effective in blaming me, as much as me blaming myself. It is the natural reaction, whether deserved or not, to search for all the things I might have done wrong that might have brought on this situation. If I wanted insight on this issue, I could never get it from the CR bc none of you are privy to all the nitty gritty details of our lives. So why do think you know? The answer to those questions are between me and Hashem. What I can get in the CR is the benefit of your experiences or knowledge, what worked for you and what didn’t; Recommendations of lectures, Rebbes, and organizations etc, which many of you have given. From the parents of kids OTD I received encouragement and hope to continue, when I felt like I was going to crash. And to those of you who work with kids OTD, I got tremendous chizuk, and will be forever thankful, especially to aries2756 and soliek.

With much gratitude,

write or wrong

aries2756-I take no offense. I’ve only found your posts to be helpful and a great source of chizuk for me, and apparently for others as well. Keep posting..

ana mia-

“she couldnt get it past her that there are others who are going through the same thing as she is and that she is not the only one in this situation”

Do you really believe this??? Despite the past 6 months of connecting with other mothers on this thread that are going through something similar, I have also connected with mothers going through this over here. When you speak the way you do, I hear a lot of anger behind your words, as if you take everything I do/didn’t do personally. Perhaps it is you who are/were off the derech, and have a lot of unresolved anger.

As far as my son making decisions for himself, he was not a little child at the time. He was much older, and when he refused to switch schools, he actually had a valid reason for wanting to stay. So we let him, but we gave him the option of changing his mind if he wanted to. Hind sight is always 20-20, and YOU, of course, have the benefit of MY hindsight.

And my parents do know about my son. You are so wrong on all fronts, that I don’t have the time to refute all your distorted conclusions. Suffice it to say, since you have no real insight to offer, you really need not bother to post…

ana mia-did you have a point?

And since now you “have an idea of what’s really going on”, I suggest you contact all those organizations and Rebbes, therapists and psychologists that do kiruv, and enlighten them with your “knowledge”…

ana mia-all you did was leave my name out, but you quoted me on several occasions.

Good Shabbos

ana mia-Interesting summary, but you got a few things wrong:

“He got bullied in school sometimes and the RY was also someone who was very tough on the boys but my friend didnt really do anything about it because he was sitting and learning so she figured thats the only thing that mattered and everything else would somehow solve itself”.

This is not true at all. We went to the school a number of times to complain to the Rebbe about what was going on. He actually threatened the class with expulsion, to any kid who would bother my son in the future. And he followed through on it. We also took my son to speech therapy, so that perhaps the kids would stop making fun of how he spoke. We also got him a mentor, and repeatedly told our son that we will gladly move him to another school if he wasn’t happy where he was. But my son never got close to his mentor, and he never wanted to switch schools.

“Additionally, he was very musically and artistically inclined but he never did any extra-curricular activities because well, boys like him have to learn torah for 12 hours a day, what does he need anything else for?”

He never wanted to go.

“they see how horrible the 16 year old is and how much pain he causes their parents so my friend decided that they definitely would not follow in his footsteps. so my friend thinks its ok for the other children to continue with their lives as is even though they are traumatized by the situation and refuses to put them into therapy or allow them to participate in extra-curricular activities”.

I never said that my other kids would DEFINITELY not follow their brother’s footsteps. What I said was that they see my son is not pleasant to them, and not happy himself, so that being like him isn’t very appealing. If you re-read my post, you will see that I wrote that in some ways, I am extremely worried for them.

And who’s REFUSING to put them into therapy, or send them for extra curricular activities? I think you are reading words that were never written.

“a lot of people have suggested so many things but she is not really receptive to anything”

Really? I can’t even respond to this. Off the top of my head, I can think of many posters whose advice I’ve valued and put into practice.

aries2756-thank you so much for spelling it out for me. You always put things in the right perspective, which is so easy to lose when you’re overwhelmed with pain. Forgive me if I regress every once in a while, but I am hoping to really internalize your message and carry it with me, as I try to weather this storm…

How will I ever thank you and all the wonderful people who have helped me so much, and given so much of their time????????????

The school accepted the kids back, but they have to get there on their own until the bus is reinstated. Not sure this is going to work out. This morning, my son was up and ready to go, but apparently the other kids in his chevra overslept! He was so upset with them. He left the house, but I’m not sure he went to school.

aries2756-I agree with everything you wrote, it all makes perfect sense. I don’t react with anger or pain to his angry comments. But I can’t help but FEEL tremendous pain every time he ‘talks’ to me (screams to me, is more like it). I can accept that this is a nisayon, and that he’s in pain. But I can’t disconnect from the fact that I’ve been loving/giving to this kid for 16 years, and have suddenly become an enemy! How do I ‘not allow myself to feel hurt’, as you said? I don’t react angrily to him bc of the hurt, but I can’t erase the hurt. And as far as keeping him ‘safe and healthy’, he doesn’t let me. He almost NEVER eats anything I cook at home, only junk food. And safety? I never know where he goes and what he does, and I can’t ask him without him getting extremely angry. He told me point blank, not to ask him anything.

purpilicious-I will look into it, but truthfully, it has to come from him or his friends. Anything I suggest is an automatic ‘No”.

ana mia-all your suggestions are good, and we’ve tried. But I think it’s for someone who’s healthier. He’s not interested in anything, only in hanging out with his chevra.

Derech HaMelech-You sound like you know psychology as well! You are correct (this is actually quite Freudian) that my son is competing with my husband, and is trying to prove that he is a man. I tell this to my husband all the time, since this struggle is universal and not specific to our situation, nor to religion. But it’s still hard for my husband to ‘respect’ his behavior and relinquish part of his title, when my son is severely disrespectful and immature. I tell my husband to ‘hear’ the struggle and not my son’s words, but it’s a process..and he is getting better. My husband does look for those moments, but they are too few.

Good point about the tension. I never really thought my son might feel guilty, and that that could be triggering the angry outbursts. I will try to keep things in check..

Thanks for all the advice!

Derech HaMelech-Wow! I really like what you wrote. Thanks for helping me to see the bigger picture.

Imaofthree-thanks for the pep talk. I know you’re right.

Wishing all of you a Good Shabbos…

Imaofthree-Maybe that’s the problem, I don’t feel like I’m a fantastic mother. And even if I go to a shiur or something, I feel great while I’m there. But I always come back to the painful reality of my son being OTD, and the tiny (or, maybe HUGE) voice that questions/analyzes the 16 years of mechanaching him, looking for what I did wrong. I know intellectually I shouldn’t blame myself, but no matter what I read, no matter what people tell me, I will always feel like I missed something somewhere, and this is the reason I can’t forgive myself.

aries2756-thanks for all your great advice. You know, I wrote him a short note the other day, just telling him I love him, and goodnight. It was 2am and he wasn’t home, so I left it on his pillow. It’s what I would have wanted to say to him had he been home, before I went to bed. Then I forgot about it, until yesterday when he asked me for something I couldn’t give. He got so upset, and told me the note wasn’t true. This is what I have to contend with. We will always be imperfect, or worse yet, HORRIBLE parents in my son’s eyes. What do you make of this?

aries2756-I did write him a letter, right before the Chagim. I put my love, heart and soul into it. He read it, and then gave it back to me. He’s not the type who will read it over and over again. He’s not the sentimental type. I do try to show him love, only he rejects it every time. Yesterday evening, when he woke up, I asked him if he wanted to go out and grab something to eat before he goes out wih his friends. But he refused to go. Even for 15 minutes, he wouldn’t go. And for sure he doesn’t eat anything I prepare at home.

Everything you suggest makes sense, but if I say it to him, it will all just fall on deaf ears…

aries2756-does trying to control my son include wanting him to come home at a reasonable hour? I can’t get him to agree to come home at any specific hour, he wants to be able to stay out as late as he wants/all night, without boundaries. I told him, if coming home by midnight is too difficult, then let’s try to come up with some compromise. Besides the fact that I worry about him, and the fact that his chevra’s rowdiness has warranted a visit by the police periodically, I am thinking more long term. He is isolating himself, growing further and further apart from the ‘world of the living’. He sleeps by day, and lives by night, and is getting used to not being around people and functioning in the real world. How will he ever re-enter mainstream life when he is becoming accustomed to separating from it? And, is ‘using drugs’ one of the mistakes we have to let him make? I really think he needs outside help, but he refuses to go to a therapist, a doctor, or anybody, and he refuses to let me bring someone to the house. The way I see it is I can either go behind his back and bring someone to the house, which may infuriate him (and alienate him from us even more), or I can let him hit rock bottom, which I’m petrified to do. I am back to staying up all night, crying/worrying about him, and am hitting my own ‘rock bottom’. There really is no solution…

zahavasdad-I’m not really thrilled with sending him to NY, and maybe you are right, that there are other risks. I do tend to think that the army may be the best thing for him in the long run, bc it will force him to learn responsibility, and he will see, once and for all, that having rules is not strictly a ‘Haredi idea’.

Imaof3-thanks, I will try…and you too!

laebish-It’s interesting that you were healed, in a sense, by reconnecting with your American side. I thought about sending him, or going with him to the States, and we are going to look into it more. But so far, the ‘American side’ of him has been the thorn in his identity’. He so much wanted to be accepted as a full fledged Israeli. Now, I’m not sure that’s the pressing agenda anymore. And the truth is, a number of other kids in the chevra are also American born-Israeli.

We are trying to encourage him to consider working, or to learn a trade more seriously. Maybe in a month or 2, he will consider it when the weather will change, and it will be harder to hang out all night with the chevra.

adams-I don’t really know what my son is doing. I’ve never seen him drunk, and I think he only tried marijuana. My other kids think he’s only saying it to upset us. But I don’t know. I can only talk to him, and hope sense will kick in. But right now, he has a tremendous desire to look important to his chevra, and that’s what scares me…

Imaof3-I did read that book, and for some reason, it depressed me terribly. The more kids I see OTD, the more I think that besides all the ‘obvious’ reasons that could cause it, there must be some Divine reason as well. Some of the most AMAZING families have kids OTD, and it just doesn’t make sense. We know a Rav who has about 10 kids, all outstanding, Talmidei Chachamim…and 1 kid completely off, and badly. I know that ‘abuse’ can push a kid OTD, but there are many situations where abuse is just not in the picture. Who can we blame then???

crisisoftheweek-I really hope you’re wrong. After all, the people who love him the most, who have given to him the most, and who will always be there for him are Haredi Jews (his parents!). I’m hoping that message will seep through one day.

zahavasdad-I don’t know what you mean when you that nothing’s changed over the past 5 months, when EVERYTHING has changed over the past 5 months. Almost weekly, a new development occurs. First it was quitting Yeshiva, then staying out late, then no suit and hat, then smoking, then jeans and t-shirts, then growing hair long, then not coming home all night, then an earring, and now girls or drugs(?). Let’s say, I accepted that he quit yeshiva, it still doesn’t help me to accept what he’s doing now. Yes, I am tearing my hair out over this (as any parent would), as my heart is already torn. I accept that he doesn’t want to be religious, but unfortunately, it’s already a lot worse.

I still struggle with what should be the right approach regarding curfews. As it stands now, my son comes home whenever/if ever he wants. While I’m pretty convinced that locking him out is the wrong thing to do, we do know people who are doing this with some success. The thing is, even though I wouldn’t want him to find another place to stay…and get used to it, I still can’t get used to the idea of waking up in the morning and seeing his empty bed. I keep thinking it’s such a chutzpah! Sometimes he doesn’t come home until early evening the next day. Who can do such a thing?