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When I asked Eeees to marry me, I gave her a candy ring, as I did not have an actual ring to give her at the time.
I ended up getting her a ring later on with “recycled” diamonds. Eeees was aware all along that the candy ring wasn’t a real diamond ring (in fact she ate it then and there!) and she was aware that the diamonds in her ring were “recycled.”
Be honest. If you lie, at some point the truth will come out — and it will be much worse then.
The Wolf
WolfishMusings;(In your answer to Musser Zoger.) His (MZ) quote is correct. The attribution is wrong.
That’s fine. I wasn’t disputing that *someone* said it — I was just pointing out that I didn’t say anything of the type.
The Wolf
What makes you say answering amen is any more mandatory than laining?
Because I am required to answer amen to brachos. I am not required to lain.
If nobody leined, then nobody in the congregation could talk during leining. So, by your leining, you are doing lifnei iver for the whole shul.
Had I davened in a different shul, you might have a point. Fortunately, however, I happen to daven in a shul where I am the only one who talks during laining.
The Wolf
I should add, that even though Wolf claims not to talk during chazaraz hashatz, he is then guilty of not answering amen, and kedusha. Shver tzu zein Wolf.
I do answer amen, etc. Since that is *required* speaking, it is obvious that it is allowed. The talking I do during laining is not required — it is completely my option to do it or not do it — and, as such, I am responsible for any punishments that my shul wishes to mete out to me on account of it.
The Wolf
Wolf: Very cute! As long as you enuncuiate clearly, and don’t miss any serious Trop, You’re OK!
I highly doubt that.
The Wolf
This entire thread is very illustrative of the fact that no one here knows what a “theory” means in scientific parlance.
The Wolf
Wolf is also correct the double ring ceremony as somewhat problematic.
While I don’t dispute your point, I do feel that I should point out that I said nothing of the sort.
The Wolf
September 11 erroneously is remembered as the tragic date for what transpired in 2001
Why do you believe that it is erroneous for the non-Jewish world to use the Gregorian date to commemorate the event? Do you believe the non-Jews have some sort of mitzvah or obligation to use a Jewish calendar? I must have missed that one of the 7 Noachide mitzvos.
The Wolf
C’mon, Wolf. There is only one poster (mr) who ever told you that, not “posters”.
On reflection, I suppose that’s true. So that only makes it a matter of an error of magnitude, not of fact. My apologies on overstating the matter.
Nonetheless, do you think he thinks alone? I’m sure he must have a rebbe who believes as he does, as well as other like-minded people.
And that poster takes particular objection to *everything* (without discrimination) that, specifically, *you* do.
I don’t know that to be true.
The Wolf
Talking during chazoras hashatz and krias hatorah etc
Of the former, I am innocent. Of the latter, I am constantly guilty and deserving of whatever punishments the members of my shul wish to mete out to me, including ostracization, expulsion and/or execution.
The Wolf
My family has me. That’s more dysfunction than any family deserves in a thousand years.
The Wolf
How you met your wife isn’t anyone’s concern. (Or it shouldn’t be.)
I never said it should be otherwise. I was just expressing wonderment that people are worrying about Conservative and Reform marriages when we’re far too busy trying to nullify Orthodox marriages over matters that don’t affect the validity of the kiddushin one single iota.
The Wolf
she was known to go around all over in entirely immodest fashion.
So what? She had no mitzvah of tznius. Do you also fault her for eating pork?
The Wolf
Stayed out of people’s lives.
The Wolf
Heh. I was married as an Orthodox Jew and there are posters on these boards who feel my marriage is invalid because I didn’t use a shadchan. So go figure…
The Wolf
I was about a block and a half away when the Towers came down.
The Wolf
I’m going to write my name as a write-in candidate.
The Wolf
The old saying “you catch more flies with honey than vinegar” applies. Be there for your sibling. Set a positive example. Don’t yell, berate or condemn… you’ll just be more likely to further set them against returning at some future date.
The Wolf
Is that the only case?
To the best of my knowledge. Do you know of any other cases?
And what are the differences in punishment, in that case?
A more severe death penalty.
The Wolf
Adultery.
The Wolf
sorry, ronrsr, to call this a coincidence is pure apikorsus
Methinks someone doesn’t know the definition of “pure apikorsus.” Even if he’s wrong, being wrong != apikorsus.
The Wolf
I have a recurring eye infection. When it acts up, I wear sunglasses. I do this not because it’s necessary for my vision, but because I want to spare others the site of my eye when it looks really bad.
If that makes me “goyish,” then so be it.
The Wolf
Don’t agree with the Gemara? Then don’t light Shabos candles and don’t put strange black straps on your arms and head daily.
On the broader argument which you mention, however, I still maintain my point… that a statement made in contravention to an open gemara* is not necessarily apikorsus. Stating that 2+2=7 is not apikorsus (despite the fact that it goes against an open gemara). It’s just plain wrong, period. Being incorrect != stating apikorsus.
In addition, I find your attitude disturbing. Your advocating the complete abandomnent of mitzvos for someone who disagrees with an open gemara (whether they are an apikorus or not) is simply wrong. Please cite me where an apikorus is no longer obligated to do mitzvos (that you so casually tell him not to do so anymore).
The Wolf
* Excluding the case at hand since it explicitly mentions being an apikorus.
Sorry Perek 11 daf 99b towards the end of the page
OK, very well. Thank you for the citation.
The Gemara there clearly talks about Rabannan. It does not talk about regular people who are sitting and learning. It talks about a case where someone questions “Mai Ahanu Li Rabbanan.” It does not talk about someone who says “Mai Ahanu Li HaLomdai Torah.”
The Wolf
It’s an open Gemora in Sanhedrin Perek 12 that anyone can look up that somebody who says that people who just sit and learn don’t contribute to the klal are apikorsim.
I highly doubt it’s in Perek 12.
In any event, I repeat my request from above and ask for a cite. In other words, please advise where the gemara is (the daf and side would be helpful).
The Wolf
fish,cheese,checkers
in the basement
a whale
A haiku must have
Lines with syllable counts of
five, seven and five.
The Wolf
who said anything about telling them to stop?
I edited my response while you put this up.
The Wolf
but some posters disagree and would not tell people to stop this practice.
I indicated a response to the OP’s question. I do not think this is a “tznius” matter (as it relates to girls’ behavior vs. boys’ behavior).
The Wolf
Since this rant thread is sorely lacking in rant, I will make up for it here:
Rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant.
I added plenty of extra rant so that other people may feel free to borrow some and use it.
The Wolf
About the apology — I do not believe, I owe you one.
You do realize that placing the comma between “believe” and “I” makes them independent clauses and that you just said that you *do* owe him an apology, right?
The Wolf
oh oh the grammar cops are on patrol groan!
What is a “patrol groan?” 🙂
The Wolf
I personally think it looks bad. But that being said, I don’t project my views on other people, so I don’t tell people “don’t chew gum in the street.” I simply refrain for myself.
Furthermore, in my view, this should be an issue that crosses genders and should not apply any more to girls than it does to boys.
The Wolf
Even if it’s an open gemara, that does not make it apikorsus either.
For example, if I were to say that R. Shimon ben Gamliel (instead of R. Yochanan ben Zakkai) told Vespasian that he was going to be the emperor, is that apikorsus? I would venture to say that it’s simply an incorrect statement and nothing more. Is 2+2=7 an apikorsus statement (since, I’m sure somewhere the gemara must add up two sets of two items each to come to a total of 4, such as by tefillin)?
In short, not every statement that disagrees with an open gemara is apikorsus. Wrong != Apikorsus.
The Wolf
Some people ignore the rules regarding when to use an apostrophe or not. 🙂
The Wolf
He stated that in good old days people entering Yeshivos would end up doing “something for Klal Yisroel” like become Roshei Yeshiva, Rabbonim etc. This implies that if one only learns forever, he does not benefit Klal Yisroel.
I don’t think that that statement implies that at all.
This is clearly apikorsus as per Gemora in perek Cheilek in Sanhedrin.
Cite? Are you talking about “Mai ahanu Li Rabbanan?” The quote obviously did not mean that since he was talking about people who don’t become rabbannan.
The Wolf
One sibling. We are very close.
The Wolf
Personally, I think that a yarmulke should not have anything on it, including one’s name (which is common among children). I think that the yarmulke is not necessarily the place to have smiley faces, logos, etc.
But this is solely my opinion and therefore I do not say anything to anyone who actually has anything on their yarmulkes. In other words, I won’t have it on my yarmulke and you can do what you like with yours — I’m not going to tell you that you’re wrong if you do have something on your yarmulke.
The Wolf
You would rather quantity over quality?
Sometimes there is something to be said for quantity as well as quality. Five wonderful shiny pennies, polished over and over and in mint condition, are still only five cents at the end of the day. A dull, dingy quarter is still worth more.
Yes, there is great value in going in-depth into a subject and it should be a regular seder in a yeshiva (although if I don’t know about the degree to which it is done in the OP’s yeshiva). But there is also value in learning and covering ground as well.
A person who spends all his time learning every ha’arah in the first five blatt of Baba Kamma has a great understanding of it… but he’s also ignorant of the rest of Shas.
In short, there should be a seder for iyun and a seder for b’kiyus.
The Wolf
What is this fad all about that people don’t put on their tie for mincha, and marriv on motzei shabbos?
I don’t know what you’re talking about. I always wear a tie to shul on Shabbos/Yom Tov — including Mincha and Ma’ariv.
The Wolf
5- The dreaded “Mem” word.
OK, I must be slow this evening… what is the “dreaded ‘Mem’ word?”
The Wolf
You’re married to her wolf, so any Yeshivish guy would do the same.
Considering the fact that there is one yeshivish person on these boards who considers my marriage to be invalid, who can say?
The Wolf
Why would he need the “nu”?
I don’t know. I would guess that some people consider “nu” to not be talking at all. I’ve seen people use it in situations where it was not justified at all.
The Wolf
I guess I’m not yeshivish since I just complimented Eeees a few minutes ago on the way she looks. 🙂
(That’s okay — I don’t identify as “yeshivish” anyway.)
The Wolf
I would argue (note, it’s just an argument, not a p’sak; if you believe I’m wrong, I’ll certainly entertain arguments) that if someone is disturbing you to the point where you can’t continue davening, you can verbally ask them to stop — it’s no more a hefsek than asking for a knife is after you’ve washed.
The Wolf
My first date with Eeees was on a night when it poured. Needless to say, this made our original plan (miniature golf) completely out of the question. Backup plans didn’t quite work out either. Eventually it came down to pizza. In short, nothing about the date worked out… except for the fact that we liked each other.
Twenty three years later, we’re still very happy.
The Wolf
Wolf – daven for a sport team to win? I sincerely hope you are kidding.
On the contrary… I’m absolutely serious.
Look, to you (and I) a sports team winning may be a trivial matter. But to other people, it is a serious matter — for some it may be because there is a financial incentive (you can bet the owners of restaurants and bars around Yankee Stadium would LOVE for the Yankees to get to the playoffs, resulting in extra games at the stadium), for some it may be simply because they enjoy the sport. But God is there for us to pray for, for whatever is important to us. If the outcome of a baseball game is important enough to someone that they will pray for it, then He is there for that person to pray to. I don’t believe that God turns a deaf ear toward anyone’s prayer simply because you or I think that it’s trivial and unimportant. If it’s important enough for the person to pray about, then I believe He is listening.
The Wolf
Staying home.
The Wolf
You can daven for anything you want. The wonderful thing is that God is listening, no matter how trivial the request.
You can daven for health.
You can daven for parnassah.
You can daven for guidance in raising children.
You can daven that you make the 7-10 split.
You can daven that the Yankees win the pennant.
You can daven that your wife makes your favorite food dish.
In short, you can daven for anything that you like, including political candidates.
The Wolf