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Wolf: I am responding to Sam’s incorrect implication that halacha allows casual talking with women or girls.
Fine, whatever. I don’t think anyone was talking about shmoozing until you brought it up anyway. In any event, it’s still not the point of this thread.
And you still have yet to show me that any of the things I mentioned doing are okay. The fact that you cannot/will not shows that you agree with me that they are forbidden and that, as someone who does those things, I should be punished.
The Wolf
Sam: Really? Halacha doesn’t prohibit chit-chatting with girls?
Irrelevant to the argument as saying Good Shabbos or “shoalin b’shlom” does not equal chit-chatting. We’re not discussing chit-chatting in this thread.
The Wolf
Wolf: Taking the liberty of speaking on behalf of many, we don’t appreciate your ill-humored leitzanus in trying to be dismissive of halachos.
Trust me, when I want to be humorous, you will know it. I am being dead-on serious. I am 100% serious when I mention that these are sins that I need to repent for, sins that I keep on doing and sins for which I deserve whatever punishments the community metes out.
The only humorous post I made in this thread was my first where I commented about the OP’s lack of grammar. The rest of my posts were 100% serious.
Normally, I suppose you’d give a regular person the benefit of the doubt before calling them a letz. I understand why you wouldn’t give me that same benefit of the doubt — I’m a proven rasha who does not deserve it. But in this case, you are wrong — I am not mocking.
The Wolf
You certainly cannot ever stam shmooze with women (or girls) not your immediate family.
Who says you can stam shmooze with women even in your own family? Al Tarbeh Sichah applies to one’s own wife too. When I ask my daughter how her day went at school, that’s a sin. When I ask my mother how her back is doing, that’s a sin too. When I ask my sister how my nieces are doing at camp, that’s a sin. When I ask my father how his wife’s [not my mother] surgery went, that, too, is a sin [since she’s an erva to me and I should not ask about her]. These are all sins of which I am guilty and for which I must suffer, and I challenge shlishi, or avhaben or any of that group to find me a single hetter for doing so. The fact is that I am a disgusting pervert for even thinking of doing these things, and I deserve whatever punishment, judicial or extra-judicial, the community wants to mete out to me.
The Wolf
Either way, they’re terrible for your health and safety.
I assume the “either way” refers to whether the glasses are real or not*. If they are not real, how can be terrible for your health and safety?
The Wolf
* If I’m mistaken, then please forgive me and let me know what the “either way” was referring to.
(Wolf: I corrected the citation of the S”A per your point on the previous page.)
Now that you agree with me that my actions are wrong and that I am a disgusting, pathetic, deviant (what else would you call someone who violates sections of Even HaEzer with his own relatives as described above), I ask you what actions the community should take against someone like me, taking fully into account the heinousness of my crimes.
The Wolf
Shulchan Aruch (EH 21:6) says that one may not ask a married woman about her welfare, even via a messenger, and even via her husband. (Based on Bava Metzia 87.)
The SA does not say “married.” It doesn’t say “Ain Shoalin Bshlom Aishes Ish Klal.” It says “Ain Shoalim Bshlom Isah K’lal.” It seems to me that it should be forbidden to ask about a non-married woman too. Furthermore, the fact that the word “Klal” (at all) is included indicates to me that there are NO exceptions.
That’s why I’m such a perverted sick human being. The other day I asked my wife about my daughter’s doctor appointment and I asked my sister how my neice was doing at camp. I realize that I should not have done those things and that I should be shunned by the community as a deviant for these disgusting acts that are clearly in violation of the Shulchan Aruch.
The Wolf
b)once the kids have grown and chosen their path it inevitably becomes clear to the rest of the world how stringent the parents were when it came to this halacha…
Please quote a source which says that you can definitively state that a couple was not careful regarding taharas Hamishpacha by seeing that a child has gone off the derech.
The Wolf
If your minhag is to not cut hair before three, then don’t do it before he’s three. After his birthday? Do it whenever you want… there’s no halacha in this matter. If the day before Yom Kippur isn’t convenient, then do it on a weekday between between RH and Succos or do it after Succos.
The Wolf
All I can say is, personal experience.
Really? So, how many marriage therapists have you seen? One? Two? A dozen? And for that you’re willing to cast aspersions on an entire profession, including, in short accusing all marriage therapists (including the Jewish and frum ones) as malpractitioners, thieves and people who’s primary professional goal in life is to break up marriages.
Boy, do you have a lot of people to ask mechila of this Elul.
The Wolf
Wolf: I meant lucky in the sense that they’re considered holier than others (and due to their state of holiness they cannot marry a gerusha.)
Nice try, but that’s not how your first post actually reads.
The Wolf
Oh, damn… I did it again. I asked my wife how my daughter’s doctor’s appointment went. And I also asked my sister how her daughter (my niece) is doing in camp.
More evidence that I am a lecherous, perverted, disgusting human being who should be shot on sight.
The Wolf
A Rebbe of mine once said “If a Bais Yaakov girl is going to go against what her Morah’s taught her and say Good Shobbos one shouldn’t respond.”
And how am I supposed to know exactly what a young woman’s Bais Yaakov teacher taught her regarding saying “Good Shabbos?”
The Wolf
Wolf, I was joking
Calling one’s parent an apikorus is not something to joke about. I’m all for a good sense of humor and fun, but there are some things that should not be joked about. Calling one’s parent an apikorus, even in jest, is one of them.
The Wolf
The answer is he receives training in goyishe ideas and philosophies as to how a marriage should work.
Care to give a specific example of a practice that you feel is contrary to the Torah that is employed by marriage therapists on a regular basis and that a frum marriage therapist cannot change or adapt to the specific needs of the couple?
The Wolf
Is she an apikoirus?
I find the fact that you’re even willing to consider the possibility that your mother is an apikorus simply on the grounds that she cannot/will not buy you Shabbos shoes to be odious, repugnant and thoroughly disrespectful.
The fact that you’re willing to publicly consider it on a message board is all the worse.
The Wolf
Most marriage therapists would be more properly described as Divorce Therapists, as that is the most common end of such therapy. That is what they push for and that is what they are paid for.
Please provide some evidence for your claim that marriage therapist purposely engage in malpractice by pushing for divorce in the majority of cases.
The Wolf
I don’t want to get too specific, but I tired of “???” websites that offer shiurim
What is a non-kosher website that offers shiurim?
The Wolf
I lost my right to vote after my felony jaywalking conviction.
The Wolf
Lipman is
and is unfortunately all too common a tactic used by the zealots among us to stifle any perspective that isn’t THEIR perspective.
As is the purposeful deletion of a person’s honorific.
The Wolf
Kohanim are lucky. Even if they get divorced they still get to marry a besula, as they cannot marry a gerusha. (And the supply of young almanas is insufficient for divorcees. Even an almana is arguably better than a gerusha.)
I fail to see how divorced kohanim are luckier than non-kohanim. All the options that are available for kohanim are also available to non-kohanim.
Of course, my failure to see this must stem from the fact that I am a stupid apikorus who doesn’t understand the added kedusha of kohanim like Englishman (or whatever he’s calling himself these days) does and if only I were not a piece of human garbage, I might be able to see how kohanim are luckier in this regard.
The Wolf
“Ain shoelin bi’ shalom eisha klal”,
Hmmm…
I asked my wife how my daughter’s day at camp went. Interestingly enough, I think that should be forbidden.
1. The SA and the Rema make no exceptions for daughters.
2. The added word “klal” seems, to me, to be inclusive of everything, including one’s family and perhaps even one’s wife.
I guess I won’t ask about my daughter any more. Perhaps then I might take a step towards no longer being the lecherous, perverted sick excuse for a human being that I am.
The Wolf
Why should a frum girl expect a frum guy to say “gut Shabbos” to her unless they are the type of very modern people who are not Shomer Negia
What does that have to do with basic menchlichkeit?
Also in Brooklyn men usually don’t exchange gut shabbos unless they know each other.
Then I guess I don’t live in Brooklyn, since I say “Good Shabbos” to men I don’t know. How is it that you know where I live better than I do?
The Wolf
Why not ask your company what their policy is on the matter?
The Wolf
It seems generally accepted that it is not tznius for a woman to appear barefoot in front of men that are neither her spouse or husband.
Your premise may not be correct. Or rather, it may only be correct in certain communities, in which case any answers that follow would also only apply to those communities.
The Wolf
The only thing worse than a hostile comment is an ambiguous one.
I thought my comment was unambiguous.
The Wolf
What they do for avoda zora (whistling/sheidim worshippers, hand folding/church) is indeed assur.
So I take it that you hold that it’s assur to sing? Or clap your hands? Or play an organ? Those are done in churches too.
The Wolf
A few years back I was in such a place where gut shabbos is exchnnged betwenn both genders and it was abundantly clear to me that some girls were flirting with their enthusiastic good shabbos and with their coy smiles. As for the guys they were only too happy to say good shabbos to attractive dressed up girls.
I’m so glad you brought this to my attention. It just so happened that, as I left lunch today (at Bravo Pizza, in Manhattan), a frum woman approached me and asked me where 36th Street was. Having seen your advice before lunch, I was prepared for this flirtatious assault (there’s no way for me to know if she 100% lishma in wanting to know where 36th Street is) and promptly and wisely ignored her and walked away without saying a word.
The Wolf
(No, not really. I actually had the shameless gall to actually tell her where 36th Street was.)
“In our religion we only touch our own spouses (wife/husband)”
Which explains why, when my wife handed me my infant daughter, I jumped back and allowed her to drop the baby. 🙂
The Wolf
You know, some people actually PAY to advertise on this site. How clever of you to go for the free advertising route. Boy, you’re much smarter than those dummies who took the ethical route and actually paid the owner of this website…
The Wolf
The only thing worse than an ambiguous thread title is a deceptive one.
The Wolf
What sort of image do you want to convey with the store? What are your differentiating qualities? What aspects do you wish to emphasize? Price? Quality? Service?
The Wolf
I’m reading some of the articles now. Some of the articles seem rather interesting.
The Wolf
The fact that there are almost 800 posts on children going off the derech shows that Yeshivas, synagogues and Parents need to deal with this problem in a serious manner.
No, it only shows that members on this board enjoy discussing it — nothing more, nothing less.
PRofessional people skilled in dealing with this problem in conjunction with Yeshivas parents and synagogues should provide guidance on this and hopefully it will prevent many from going OTD.
That may or may not be true, but it does not follow from your premise (i.e. that because there are 800+ posts in one thread on the CR that this is what should/must happen).
The Wolf
are you allowed to say good shabbos to a girl on the street tzinyus
When come back, bring English.
The Wolf
And a goy cannot keep halacha.
Sure he can. Or do you think the billions of non-Jews who haven’t killed someone have done something wrong?
(And before you point out that non-Jews are also commanded not to kill…)
Do you think that the many non-Jews who don’t plow with a horse and donkey together are doing something wrong?
The Wolf
Just to play devil’s advocate here, do you only want to discuss matters with people who think exactly like you? I think having alternative voices — whether on the “right” or “left” is a good thing in a message board.
On the other hand, I personally hate sock-puppetry and wish he would just stick to one screen name.
The Wolf
Flatbush Dude,
You may not have noticed it, but most of those jobs are managerial jobs. In other words, you generally have to have been working in the trade for several years before you can qualify for the job. You can’t walk in off the street with no experience in the construction business and say that you want to be a construction manager.* In this case, it’s simply replacing the years in college with years of work experience.
The Wolf
* Well, I suppose you can, but odds are well against you getting the job.
It doesn’t apply as a general rule, only the specific case he mentioned. Despite some liberals trying to matir abortion by misinterpreting it via a broad reading of the term pain.
Oh, for heaven’s sake, I’m not talking about abortion. The portion I’m referring to is not the portion that deals with abortion. It’s the portion that declares that someone who would otherwise be liable for the death penalty can atone for their sin through suicide.
And, for the record, I’ve *never* heard anyone make the halachic case for abortion by mentioning this siman.
The Wolf
Logically, based on your above comments, you hold that if someone breaks into your home, you must convene a Beis Din rather than call the police.
No, because someone breaking into your home is assumed to be willing to do you harm. That’s the whole point of the halacha of ba bamachteres.
The Wolf
while the directive to visit the Rebbe’s kever on RH is not against halacha
There are those who say it *is* against halacha to leave EY to go to the kever for RH.
Is that relevant to you, Wolf? I guess that would make you quite a sinner.
It’s not the specific case, but the general rule that he derives from the specific case that have nothing to do with sexual impropriety. See “V’Kama Maasiyos B’shas…”
The Wolf
Reb Wolf
And please don’t call me “Reb.” I have not earned the title.
The Wolf
siman 43.
The Wolf
::: just sitting back, waiting for the statement that I know will eventually come::
The (patiently waiting) Wolf
Wrong. It is everyone elses business. Kol Yisroel Areivem…
So, you don’t have a problem with burqua-wearers pestering your wife and daughters to wear them since, according to them, that’s the only way to be a tznua and “kol yisrael areivim…?”
The Wolf
i think it is unfair for teachers to have spend tying shoelaces, especially when kids come in after recess with their laces wet and muddy. parents shouldn’t send their kinds with laces if they don’t know how to do them themselves.
With all due respect, get over it. If that’s your biggest complaint as a teacher, you’re doing pretty well.
The Wolf
The Wolf admitting here on YWN to an audience of billions that he is ???? ??? by not wearing sneakers but instead has a separate pair of shoes only for ???!
You know, I would expect that, on the few occasions when I do something correctly, I should be encouraged to continue doing so, not derided for doing it.
Nonetheless, your statement is incorrect. I also wear my shoes on Yom Tov when it falls on weekdays, as well as to formal events that require them (weddings, job interviews, important work meetings, etc). So to say that I wear them only on Shabbos is incorrect.
In addition, I highly doubt that the audience on this board reaches “billions of people.”
The Wolf
yytz,
I’m still waiting to know why it’s a good idea to go to Uman simply because R. Nachman said to (and when he has opposition to his position), but it’s not a good idea to follow R. Yaakov Emden simply because he says it’s a good idea to do something (and he, too, no doubt has opposition to his opinion)?
The Wolf
A) Calling the police shut off an alarm blaring in the dead of the night is not mesira.
Source? I cost the fellow money as his car was ticketed. If that’s not being moser the mammon of a yid, then I don’t know what is. The fact is that I did not go to a Rav or Bais Din before doing so.
B) You can only kill the moser before the mesira.
I find that hard to believe. You hear enough stories about mosrim being threatened well after the fact.
C) One mustn’t kill a moser (when permissible/required) if it’ll endanger his freedom.
Source? Do you also not have to perform a bris milah on your son if it might endanger your freedom?
The wolf
Wolf: The issue of taking a concubine
That’s not the issue I’m talking about.
The Wolf