WolfishMusings

She has been a highly immoral person since at least 15 yeats old

Again, so what?

Even if she were promiscuous, that doesn’t give people free reign to molest her — and even if promiscuous, she is entitled to justice if she is molested.

What matters is what happened between her and Mr. Weberman. Her other past activities (real or imagined) should have no bearing on the matter at all.

The Wolf

I find it amusing unfortunately, how all of you seem to know the true facts first hand! Tell me do any of you know the accuser firsthand? Do you know her husband as well?? There is so little coverage of who and what she is! This whole case is a terrible chillul Hashem! I am NOT SWEEPING things under the carpet, BUT you need to know who she is and what shes done with her life!! Not because she’s been abused BUT because of choices that she has made !

Does it matter?

If what you are implying about her is true, so what? Does that mean she deserves abuse? Or is not entitled to justice if abused?

Justice in this case needs to be based on evidence and testimony (or lack of same). Who and what she may have otherwise done is really beside the point.

The Wolf

Wolf: Even if the allegations in this case had been true, it is not a capital case. The penalty prescribed by halacha for this is within the jurisdiction and competence of a contemporary Bais Din.

Is it? Are you talking about the k’nas of a na’arah (since she was 12 when this started)?

That’s a k’nas… which, again, you need s’muchim.

Are you saying that it’s strictly a monetary case with only civil penalties involved?

If so, then I ask you — is monetary punishment the only acceptable punishment for thieves, gangsters, arsonists, child molesters and rapists (as long as they don’t kill anyone)? If not, then what would you do with these people?

The Wolf

There are numerous legal citations freely available online clearly indicating that corporal punishment is legal in private schools in 48 out of 50 States, with only two States (neither of which is NY) disallowing corporal punishment.

And they could be wrong or out of date.

Heck, I showed you on the official site of the New York State Dept of Education the source of the regulation. I think that outweighs any other website on the matter.

It’s almost as if I told you that Prince Charles was the next in line for the British Throne *and* showed you the official site of the Royal Family and you replied “but there are other free websites that say so-and-so is next in line…”

The Wolf

Based on basic research I conducted. For starters, check out the Wikipedia entry on “School corporal punishment” and see the reference for ‘private schools’ under the United States section.

Let me get this straight.

I quote you the regulation from the New York Code, Rules and Regulations banning corporeal punishment in private and public schools *and* confer with several lawyers who practice in New York regarding whether or not they have the force of law and your best rebuttal is a paragraph from Wikipedia?

The Wolf

We use two different tunes. My wife grew up with one tune whereas I inherited a different tune from yeshiva.

As a result, we switch off — one night her tune, one night mine.

The Wolf

What you cited is not a statue and is not law.

It is a part of the New York Codes, Rules and Regulations. They are not laws that are voted on by legislatures and signed by the governor. They are rules that are promulgated by state departments.

However, they still have the force of law. According to various lawyers I spoke with, you will not end up in prison for violating these regulations, but you can be fined, lose a license and face other civil charges. The regulations have the force of law, as there are provisions in the law which allow the state agencies to promulgate these rules.

Long story short — it is illegal for a private school teacher to hit a student.

The Wolf

It IS legal in NY private schools

From the NYS Dept of Education:

http://www.p12.nysed.gov/specialed/publications/policy/BIattach-909.htm

State regulations prohibit the use of corporal punishment against a student by a teacher, administrator, officer, employee or agent of a school district in this State, a board of cooperative educational services (BOCES), a charter school, State-operated or State-supported school, an approved preschool program, an approved private school, an approved out-of-State day or residential school, or a registered nonpublic nursery, kindergarten, elementary or secondary school in this State.

In short, it’s NOT legal in NYS for a teacher to hit a child. Period.

The Wolf

At any rate, bizman Avraham Avinu, Og was not married.

How would you know this?

The Wolf

I teach kids laining for their bar mitzvah. I usually teach in the kid’s home, where there are people all around and we are never left alone.

I took on one student last year where the father did not want me to teach in his home. Instead, we had our lessons in a shul. Since (depending on the season) I don’t get out of work until Ma’ariv is over in the shul, very often we are the only ones there.

I have noticed that the father is there for every lesson. He doesn’t participate, of course — he’s off on the other side of the shul learning or talking on the phone, or whatever. But he’s there — and rightly so. *I* know that I would never take advantage of a kid that way — but he doesn’t. I commend him for his vigilance regarding the safety of his son.

The Wolf

I find it completely incredible that there are people on this board who are ready to say that I lack derech eretz for eating a sandwich with my hands, but when it comes to breaking into someone else’s house and robbing him blind, they have absolutely no moral qualms whatsoever (other than the consequences of possibly being caught).

The Wolf

I could be wrong but I would think that it’s Assur to deliberately act w/o Derech Eretz.

That’s a far cry from the “numerous issurim” you claimed. Do you know of numerous issurim, or were you just exaggerating for sake of… whatever?

There is a reason Chazal made these Takanos, it is not becoming of a person to have his hands full of oil and dirt like some sort of animal.

So now you’re backtracking from foods of a certain size to oily foods. Again, I ask you, should one eat matzah or a bagel with a fork and knife? What about a Snickers bar (or any other large candy bar?) What about ice cream from a cone?

The Wolf

In Siman ?? it says that it is not Derech Eretz to bite into something bigger than a k’beitzah.

A. Not derech eretz <> “numerous issurim” (and yes, I realize that you are not the one who said it involved “numerous issurim.”)

B. That may not apply to foods that are normally eaten in that manner (such as a bagel, for example).

C. It may also be something that is dependent on the style and custom of the culture. For example, I always tell my kids to cut their meat small enough to eat it in one bite (which fits in quite nicely with the S”A on the matter). However, I would never tell them to cut a candy bar with a knife in that manner, since the normal way of eating one in our society is to bite it off the end.

The Wolf

There are numerous Issurim related to eating foods (especially the size of the Avg Latke) with your hands.

Numerous Issurim?

Please list some of them off for us.

In addition, there are plenty of foods the size of a latke or larger where it is perfectly all right to eat them with one’s hands (although, I’ll admit, a latke itself is not one of them).

A Ben Torah should always eat with utensils as it is more Mechubedike than eating with ones barehands.

Always???? Should a Ben Torah eat a bagel with a fork and knife? How about a matzah?

The Wolf

Wolf – that’s awesome.

Thank you for the kind words.

All my children are type 0 and I have been telling them for years how important it is that they give blood when they are old enough. I hope they join the ranks of those who donate.

We’ve been stressing to our kids how important this is for a long time. Even when they were too young to give for themselves, we brought them with us whenever we donated blood. The message sunk in as each kid was eager to give and was happy when they finally turned 16 and were able to donate for the first time.

This past week was the first time we all gave as a family (as this was the first time my daughter [who is my youngest] was able to give).

The Wolf

You won’t be changing because you disagree with that interpertation of the Torah or you won’t change even if you agreed the Torah unambiguously said you were wrong in doing so?

Does it matter? If you believe that my marriage is anti-Torah, does it matter why I do it? And if you don’t believe it’s anti-Torah, why should you care whether I change or not?

The Wolf

Wolf – isn’t it your turn now to give us a rendition of your merits that earn you eternal damnation for letting your wife choose the date?

Apology

I don’t know what you mean by “choose the date.”

In any event, as long as you dragged me into this, in our household, neither of us is the boss. Neither of us “pulls rank” on the other and neither of us would dream of making any major decisions without the support of the other.

If you want to say that, because of this, my marriage runs counter to what the Torah wants, then you can say it. I’ll still not be changing my marriage.

The Wolf

FWIW, I’ve never heard of this “minhag.” Nor do I obsess of pizza on Motzei Shabbos (or after Pesach for that matter).

The Wolf

too much spam.

From me??

(Aside from the post that I put up that had the word “Spam” repeated ad nauseum, of course.)

The Wolf

many people will not call their wife by her first name when non-immediate family members are in the vicinity.

Heck, I once had someone try to convince me that it was wrong to call my wife by her first name even when we were alone.

No, I didn’t listen to him.

The Wolf

Check the NYTimes archives from before the repeal polls. It was a much broader proposal than to just allow funding parochial education, which was a little discussed aspect. The referendum (all in one vote) was more than just repealing Blaine.

I don’t have access to the NYT archives (and I’m not willing to pay).

In any event, however, this is outside the topic of the OP. The OP discussed flooding the public schools to “force” the state to pay for yeshiva education, which, as we’ve shown, is not going to work.

Removing the Blaine Amendment, through proper procedures, is a different discussion and is not related to the point of flooding the public schools with our kids.

The Wolf

I’d imagine they won’t appreciate if thousands of students are getting a sub-par education or running wild.

Do you hear yourself? You’re suggesting that parents basically ruin their children for two years for the sake of saving a few thousand dollars. Sorry, but my kids’ education is worth more than that.

The Wolf

Previous referendums on the Baine Amendment repeal did NOT focus on funding religious schools. It was much broader and the school funding issue was little discussed.

Considering the fact that the Blaine amendment is about funding of private religious schools, in what way could discussion about it not focus on that very issue?

The Wolf

In New York, we have Bloomberg who has declared war on almost every issue that we held dear.

This is irrelevant because funding for education comes from the state, not the city.

The Wolf

How do you know what he (LJ) holds? Maybe he holds Elu V’elu?

I don’t think so. His statement sounded pretty absolute to me.

Nonetheless, if I’m wrong and he doesn’t hold that it’s an absolute violation of tznius for a woman to drive or sit in front, I’ll be more than happy to retract.

The Wolf