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Wolf (and others), there’s a big distinction to be made between someone showing up in the background of a picture, and a picture where the subject in question is the focus of the picture, especially when named in the caption.
I agree, there is a distinction and, I believe, in my post, I covered both sides of that distinction (shooting in public in a place like Times Square vs. the children’s carnival I cover).
The Wolf
I do a fair amount of photography in public, including city parks and other similar venues. My shots tend to be more nature/landscape shots, so, for me, unless the person in the pic is particularly compelling for some reason, I’d prefer they not be there anyway (and will wait until they leave to take the pic).
However, that does not stop me from photographing people if I can’t avoid it. If I’m in Times Square (which is where I work) and I’m shooting, there is simply no way to avoid people… and so I don’t even bother. If you’re in my shot there, well… tough luck. If you’re in a public place, you have no expectation of privacy and, you’re fair game (although there are commercial restrictions on the usage of such photos).
As for the OP, I’m of two minds. I believe that, if the host of an event specifically asks for no photos, it’s a bit tactless and tacky to then go ahead and take photos and post them publicly. I think the OP went overboard to call it “100% gezel” since, as others have pointed out, nothing is being stolen. It’s tactless and insensitive, but that’s about it.
On the other hand, there are certain social norms and expectations that hosts and guests should adhere to. For example, you would not go to a wedding dressed in a bumblebee costume, since that’s outside the social norms. Likewise, the bride and groom can request that guests show up in bumblebee costumes, but the guests, I feel, would be free to disobey since such a request is, also, outside the social norms of the time/place.
In our days of ubiquitous camera phones and social media, I have to wonder if guests taking pictures is something that has become such a normal thing to do that a host requesting otherwise would fall out of the social norms. You wouldn’t think of inviting guests and asking them to eat only using their left hands or only drinking water (even if other things are served), right?
So, I’m torn between the two. I see both sides.
Interestingly, I photograph a carnival given for special needs children every year (although I didn’t do it this past year because I am in mourning). I simply go around and photograph the kids and adults having a good time at the event. Most people are fine with having their kids photographed at this event, but every now and again, I’ll come up against one who asks me not to do so.
Truthfully, I’m probably not under any actual obligation to accommodate them. Even though it’s a private event, it’s still public (in the sense that the people there have no reasonable expectation of privacy) and I am invited by the organizers to document the event. Nonetheless, I try to accommodate such requests within reason. In other words, I won’t take a shot of their kid alone or in a small group, but I’m not going to skip a crowd shot just because the kid is in it.
The Wolf
I always wondered how statements such as this (as well as the one regarding Yomim Tovim becoming nullified in Moshiach’s time) don’t run afoul of the ninth ikkur of emunah.
The Wolf
Thank you, RebYidd, for the well-reasoned, elucidated, logical, reasoned and factually-argued post.
The Wolf
In terms of laying low, how much outside help can they be getting, enough to challenge the police???
The main problem with escapees, once they’re out, is that they still need food, a place to live, etc. All that requires contact with other people who may recognize the escapee.
On the other hand, if you have someone on the outside whom you can trust (who won’t hand you over to the police), they can go and get you everything you need. True, you end up more or less a prisoner in your hiding place, but it probably beats prison.
Remember, it’s not like the cops can actually go house to house and demand to search it. If the escapees have someone to support them, and don’t do anything stupid to advertise their location, they can probably hold out for quite a while.
The Business Insider article I mentioned above made the point that most escapees don’t have a plan beyond the actual escape itself. Therefore, once they’re out, there have nowhere to go and usually end up getting caught shortly thereafter. However, with proper planning (and, remember, these two prisoners have demonstrated that they have the capability of planning) and help on the outside, you can hole up for quite a while.
The Wolf
WolfishMusings, what do u think is a bigger deal here, the escape iteself, sawing out of prison or laying low.
I don’t understand your question. You asked:
Finally, these prisoners have nothing, no money, no car, no passport…why cant police find them??
I posited that they may be getting help from the outside, which would definitely help them in laying low and avoiding detection. Your question (quoted above) does nothing to rebut my answer that they may be receiving outside help.
In any event, the bigger story now is the fact that they’ve avoided detection for so long.
A recent article in the Washington Post on 6/8/15 (sorry… the mods won’t allow links, but you can Google it easily enough) reported that, according to the Bureau of Justice, in 2013, there were 2001 instances of AWOL/escapee prisoners in the US — including 22 in New York alone — and that number is actually lower than in previous years. So the escape itself is really not all that remarkable.
On the other hand, most escapees are captured within hours. A Business Insider article (6/10/15) noted that, for most prisoners, their escapes lasted less than six hours. The longest escape in the last decade was for three days. Sweat and Richards have been out for five days so far. So, at this point, I’d have to argue that the length of the escape has eclipsed the escape itself in terms of newsworthiness.
The Wolf
Six years ago, there was a thread regarding whether or not it was necessary to finish high school in order to secure a decent living. At one point, I brought in statistics from the BLS showing that, on average, the higher a person’s level of education, the more they earn.
One poster’s response: “i hold that statistics dont affect us yidden.”
The Wolf
WolfishMusing, even if they had one (or two) helper(s), how much is that worth in the scope of such an escape.
In terms of the escape itself, probably not much. In terms of being able to lay low after the escape? A great deal.
I wonder if the jail is not full of videocameras like every other highly secure place (airport). With a video camera you can go back and see everything.
That’s assuming that the cameras are actually recording (as opposed to only being used for live surveillance).
The Wolf
Why are you so quick to assume that they have no help on the outside?
The Wolf
I know a fellow with the last name “Ambush.” I later found out that it is an acronym for “Ani Ma’amin B’emunah Sh’laimah.”
The Wolf
a person is compared to a “tree of the field” and can’t pick it’s fruit for 3 years
Except that, I believe, there is no issur to pick the fruit of a tree of orlah. You can’t eat it, of course, and it’s assur b’hana’a, but I believe there is no issur from picking the fruit off of the tree.
The Wolf
Oh, according to some Rishonim (IN NEDARIM!!) it’s a good idea to follow throuugh in your case, or have real Hataras Nedarim.
I hope no one ever has a dream that they vowed to become a N’zir Shimshon….
The Wolf
A rebbe of mine way back when told a story of a person who used to bang his head against the wall constantly. When he had head pains, he would complain and say “what was my sin that I have these terrible head pains?”
The answer, of course, is that he was hitting his head against the wall. If you do silly things (including dressing inappropriately for the weather) then the punishment for that is you have to suffer the consequences for those silly things.
The Wolf
The Wolf
I would personally be embarrassed
That’s you. That may not be everyone.
In any event, it doesn’t invalidate any of the reasons I gave. I still don’t know that I’m correct, I don’t know how he’ll take it and I, personally, am a coward.
The Wolf
See, here’s an example I noticed today:
During the week, I daven in a shul that davens nusach Sefard. There is a fellow who sits in front of me who (as I do) davens nusach Ashkenaz. When the chazzan finishes Chazaras HaShatz, he sits down to say Tachanun and he is seated and saying Tachanun when the Tzibbur is reciting the thirteen Middos.
I’m pretty sure (but not absolutely sure — see later) that the thirteen Middos are similar to Barchu, Kedusha, etc. where, even if it’s not your nusach, if the tzibbur is saying it, you should say it with them. So, even if he’s not going to recite vidduy, he *should* at least be standing when the tzibbur recites the Middos and say it with them.
However, I will not correct him. First of all, as I said, I believe that I’m correct, but I’m not certain of it. I’m not going to correct someone for something where I, myself, am not certain of the answer.
Second, I don’t know the person. It’s one thing if I were to go over to a friend who knows I have his best interests at heart and where I know s/he will take it in the spirit intended. Here, however, I don’t know this person. While I wouldn’t mind a perfect stranger coming up to me and (in a nice and civil tone) informing me of a mistake I’m making, I know that not everyone is similarly disposed to random criticism from strangers.
Third, I have neither the spiritual courage nor the fortitude to approach a stranger regarding corrections. Yeah, I know some of you will say that’s a cop-out, but, nonetheless, that’s the reality.
The Wolf
Can I make an off-topic suggestion?
Whenever there are threads like this, can we please get a link back to the original thread/post that this is referring to?
Even if I know which thread it’s referring to now (and I don’t — and nor do I feel like going on a wild goose chase to find it), I’m almost certain that anyone reading this five years from now will not have the faintest clue what this is referring to.
So, if for no other reason than the benefit of our future readers, can we please get a link?
Thanks,
The Wolf (who apologizes for the hijack…)
147, on erev Pesach there is a still a chiyuv of Shalosh Seudos, we just have the 3rd meal earlier in the day before the zman of eating chametz. Many shuls will daven k’vasikin on that day in order to facilitate this
WADR, I do not believe this to be correct.
When Erev Pesach comes out on Shabbos, many shuls WILL daven extra earlier — but the reason is so that we can eat the *second* meal before the end of the chometz eating period.
Some people have the custom to wash/bentch twice at that meal so as to have a third meal with bread on Shabbos. However, that doesn’t *really* count, since you can’t begin the third Shabbos meal that early (and have it count as the “official” third Shabbos meal).
The Wolf
If the owner didn’t mind and the dog was friendly, I would.
The Wolf (who should not be petted).
Zahava’sdad, I once saw an article by a musicologist who was learning in Ohr Sameach that claimed that the Gregorian chants were taken form the tunes of the Levi’im so maybe that was too.
Considering the fact that there aren’t any surviving records of how the Levi’im sang and that the Gregorian chants didn’t form until centuries later*, I’d love to know how this is possible.
The Wolf
* Yes, singing has been a part of the Church since its earlist days, but the songs they sung were not the Gregorian chants that are extant today.
V’am’ra HaIsha Amen Amen?
The Wolf
He kept on repeating the same p’sukim over and over.
You mean he didn’t change the date and person with each iteration? 🙂
The Wolf
I believe The Wolf is an aveil.
You, unlike the other gentleman, are correct.
The Wolf
polygamy only refers to MEN
Technically, polygamy refers to both.
Polygyny is the term for having more than one wife. Polyandry is the term for having more than one husband. Polygamy is a gender-neutral term.
The Wolf
I know I can be sued, but there’s nothing I can do about it now.
I’ll have your attorney contact mine. I’ll probably settle out of court for a pastrami sandwich. 🙂
The Wolf
Wow, you hold the most stringent opinion.
No, you’re wrong.
The Wolf
Are you looking for suggestions on what to listen to? 🙂
The Wolf (who doesn’t listen to any music, Jewish or not, these days)
WolfishMusings – Belz? What are you talking about?
But you knew that already, didn’t you. 😉
The Wolf
Gavra,
As much as you and I might disagree with the Belz driving ban (and, yes, I disagree with it wholeheartedly), there is no need to go overboard and call it “Muslim” and “Sharia.”
You don’t make your argument any stronger by setting up strawmen.
The Wolf
I know it’s a side point, but I must protest the “jokes” employed by some posters to denigrate entire communities of people who have dedicated themselves to Torah, even if their dedication does not measure up to that of the tailors in previous generations. The sole purpose of these “jokes” is to undermine the respect we should have for people who spend significant amounts of time learning Torah.
My joke was simply a joke about having two wives. It wasn’t meant to undermine anyone’s community, respect of Torah or those who study it. I certainly didn’t mean to offend anyone by it – I truly thought it to be a harmless jest. My sincere apologies.
The Wolf
akuperma: Federal court in Utah has already overturned Utah’a ban on polgamy (a bit over a year ago) on a basis that would be applicable to all such bans.
I believe you’re wrong on this. A Federal court did rule that a part of the statue was unconstitutional — but it was the part on cohabitation. The part actually banning polygamy is still intact. In short, you can live with as women as you like, but you can still only be married (legally) to one.
The Wolf
“Third Meal” is “Seuda Shelisheet/s/th (for Teimanim).
That’s what I call it. In fact, when I send out the email for our shul’s z’manim, I use “Seuda Sh’lishis.” I don’t use “Shalosh Se’udos” or (Heaven help us) “Shala Shudis.”
The Wolf
Old joke:
Q: What’s the penalty for bigamy?
A: Two wives.
The Wolf
There just might not be any Passuk that starts with Samack and ends with Aleph. I checked with the Orayta app and there was no listing for ?-?.
Yeah, that’s very tough. Samech is one of the rarest letters in the alphabet (only two pesukim in Chumash start with it). Also, not too many verses in Hebrew would end with an aleph (although your best bet might be in Daniel where a good portion of the book is Aramaic and an aleph-ending verse is far more likely).
The Wolf
The Wolf: “Thanks for the words of encouragement.”
You are welcome!
I didn’t think I really needed to use quotes around the word “encouragement.” I guess I was wrong.
The Wolf
Wow. That’s hot. 111 degrees to you Israelis is 231.8 degrees to the us in the non-metric world. 🙂
Keep cool!
The Wolf
If your emunah is based on something as silly as the “Bible Codes,” then you need to do some serious study of Judaism.
The Wolf
This is the yeztaer hara talking!
No, it’s common sense that no one listens to me. Your anecdote is not evidence to the contrary.
This is the yezter hara talking! Shaul was also exceedingly humble, until he was so humble he did not listen to Hashem when he had to be strict and tough. And we all know how his story ended.
So what are you saying? That I’m going to end up attempting (or committing) suicide to prevent myself from falling into the hands of the Phillistines? That would probably make the world a better place anyway…
Thats horrible, you should be friendly as well.
Yeah, that’s me. Horrible for being an introvert. Horrible for being uncomfortable around people in many circumstances (especially large crowds). Horrible for minding my own business rather than burdening other people with my presence beyond what is necessary.
Thanks for the words of encouragement.
The Wolf
R’fuah Sh’laimah!
The Wolf
I never give Tochacha.
The times I did so in the past have been disastrous and I always felt terrible about it afterwards.
No one listens to me anyway.
I don’t hold myself to be better than anyone that I’m worthy to give Tochacah.
I don’t reach out to people to be friendly – so I’m going to reach out to them to rebuke them?
I find it difficult to correct people on matters where I’m 100% that I’m right and involve no question of moral standing; so I’m certainly going to find it all the more difficult to correct people in areas where I am not 100% certain of my correctness and that involve a moral standing.
Yeah, I know you’re going to tell me that I’m doing wrong. Go ahead…
The Wolf
Not if the products are imported from the U.S.
Fair enough. I didn’t consider the possibility.
The Wolf
Here, in 3rd world countries
If you live in a third world country where the government cannot or does not adequately guarantee that the milk presented as cow’s milk is actually cow’s milk, then I believe all would agree that (what we, today, call) CY is an actual bona fide requirement. No?
The Wolf
I was the guy on a date.
Believe me, I understand. I was on a date too. 🙂
The Wolf
I may have seen The Wolf!
If you saw a guy walking with his wife and a camera and a tripod, then you probably saw me.
The Wolf
For example, I just received an advertisement for the latest and greatest Shabbos Lamp. As far as I know most people use them, maybe I’m wrong,
What, precisely, is your *halachic* issue with the Kosher Lamp?
The Wolf
The exact same things happens to me. When it does, I tell my son to stop it and go finish studying for his college finals. 🙂
The Wolf
They viewed it as a flat disk some cultures had elaborate systems in place such as a disk on the back of an elephent or turtle.
Or as a disc on the backs of four elephants which were on the back of a turtle. 🙂
The Wolf
What would you say about someone who could learn sugyos in shas b’iyun, but instead chooses to recite Tehillim a whole day – is he guilty of bittul Torah?
I’m not sure why you’re asking me what *I* would say when I’ve already stated that I don’t believe it to be bittul Torah.
The Wolf
What does that mean?
If the B”E believes that not learning up to your full potential is bittul Torah, then my prep for laining is bittul Torah. You can make the argument that it might be necessary, but you could probably also make the argument that, perhaps, it should be done by someone for whom it isn’t bittul Torah.
Again, I don’t believe any of that to be true, but it is the logical extension of the B”E’s opinion.
The Wolf
I disagree with that conclusion.
Well, in the end I do too, because I don’t really believe it’s bittul Torah anyway. My argument was along what the Bais Ephraim would say.
The Wolf
pashtus is tzorchei tzibbur is docheh Talmud Torah if you are needed
Is it tzorchei tzibbur?
I can see your argument if there was *no one* else to do it. However, I don’t know that to be the case here. Can not someone who doesn’t know Mishna or Gemara (and for whom it won’t be bittul Torah) do it?
The Wolf