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WolfishMusingsParticipant
Why is it any less appropriate for a teenage girl than a teenage boy?
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantIf you want to quote actual lines from his speech, you will need to pay royalties to the King Foundation.
No you don’t. Using excerpts in an academic paper clearly falls in the context of fair use.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipanthey i agree that a normal education is necessary! but don’t go saying that it’s impossible to become a somebody without it. lol i’m in college now – if i thought i had a fighting chance without it, i highly doubt i’d take on all this work.
Unless you have some rare and valuable skill, it is just as impossible as winning the lottery. IOW, it’s possible in theory, but I wouldn’t advise relying on it in practice.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantdd,
You’re right that the stats don’t prove causality. But there *is* a *very* strong relationship between the two factors (income and education) and it cannot be dismissed out of hand.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipanti hold that statistics dont affect us yidden.
BLAHBLAH,
I’m calling your bluff. You don’t really believe that.
I believe that you wear seat belts in the car, which has been proven statistically to greatly improve your chances of surviving an accident.
I believe that when you go to the doctor, you follow his/her advice, which is largely based on statistical studies.
Saying “statistics don’t affect us yidden” is similar to saying “physics don’t affect us yidden.”
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantThat’s fine anon… we all make mistakes.
The point here is that Cruise (and Joel) are the exceptions to the rule. They can succeed without a formal education because they have a skill that is exceedingly rare and valuable. Most people (by definition) don’t have a skill that is exceedingly rare and valuable. You can’t look at the exceptions to the rule and posit them as the rule, which is what BLAHBLAH and Brooklyn19 were doing. Unless you know someone has a particular rare and valuable skill, you shouldn’t be telling them “well Billy Joel succeeded without schooling and so can you.”
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantOh, and one more point… Tom Cruise did graduate high school. He graduated from Glen Ridge High School in 1980 (age 17).
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantBrooklyn,
As someone already pointed out to you, Albert Einstein did go to college. In fact, he earned a PhD from the University of Zurich.
The Wright Brothers did not complete high school — that is a fact. Nonetheless, they lived in an age when completing high school was more luxury than necessity. Many people in the 1880s and 1890s did not complete high school; they were often forced to go looking for work to help out the family. That reality, however, does not exist today. You really can’t use The Wright Brothers as a comparison. Were they alive as teenagers today, you can bet your bottom dollar that they would complete their high school education.
Billy Joel and Tom Cruise have a fairly unique quality — they have been blessed with very unique talents. Not any shlub off the street can walk into a studio and open a $100M movie based on name recognition alone. Not any shlub can announce a concert at Shea Stadium and sell out the tickets 45 minutes after they go on sale. The fact is that these people (like many professional athletes) have such unique skills that they don’t need an advanced education to make a ton of money. But the fact of the matter is that the reason they can make so much money is because their skills are exceedingly rare. You can’t tell the average kid “it’s okay to drop out of high school like Celebrity X,” because the average kid doesn’t have the God-given unique talents that Celebrity X has.
That being said, let’s talk about what the more typical kid might find. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, here are the usual median weekly earnings of people in the US by education for Q3 2008:
Less Than High School: 471
High School Diploma: 618
Some College Education: 725
Bachelor’s Degree: 1020
Bachelor’s Degree or more: 1131
Advanced Degree: 1333
I have data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics going back to 2000, and the relationship between education and salary always holds. The more education the average person has, the more they earn.
Is it possible for a person with little or no education to strike it rich? Absolutely. But in just about every case, you’ll find that the person either has an incredibly rare and valuable skill or is incredibly lucky (and won the lottery). For the other 99.99999% of the population, you need an education.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantthere have been many successful people who have droped [sic] out of school
I think that I would ask for a definition of the word “many” in this context.
Nonetheless, yes, there are people who have been successful despite dropping out of school – but those people are the (exceedingly rare) exceptions and not the rule.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantBogen,
Are you saying that they would view amateur and professional photographers as <i>ovdei avodah zarah</i>? That doesn’t sound right. Please tell me that I’m misunderstanding you.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantFor both my son’s bar mitzvahs, we had a “sit where you like” policy. No one complained. (And we’re not chassidic).
The Wolf
November 26, 2008 9:36 pm at 9:36 pm in reply to: Is a Boy Looking to Date a Girl or a Chavrusah? #1217842WolfishMusingsParticipantAnd is the truth from the mouth of a donkey any less the truth? IOW, the factuality of a statement is not defendant on who said it. Feel free to call me a donkey if you like, it still doesn’t change whether the statement is true or false.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipant<i>I tell people that I am a greeting card salesman.
YW Moderator-86 </i>
Ooooh! And I’m old enough to get the reference.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantAs Ed Norton* said: “Garden spot of the world — Brooklyn, USA.”
The Wolf
* (No, not the actor. If you thought it was him, you must be under 20).
WolfishMusingsParticipantRead the article and it still doesn’t say which states / countries will be able to see this.
Israel? Mexico? Sydney? London? New York?
It shouldn’t make a difference. Certainly anywhere in the Northern Hemisphere and in most places in the Southern (the extreme Southern Hemisphere might not see it because the sun will be too bright all day).
The Wolf
November 26, 2008 8:21 pm at 8:21 pm in reply to: A mitzvah for an aveira? or at someone else’s expense? #626777WolfishMusingsParticipantThanks. Not everyone will of course. YMMV.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipanthttp://www.physorg.com/news146849510.html
Starting Thanksgiving evening, Jupiter and Venus will begin moving closer so that by Sunday and Monday, they will appear 2 degrees apart, which is about a finger width held out at arm’s length, said Alan MacRobert, senior editor at Sky and Telescope magazine. Then on Monday night, they will be joined by a crescent moon right next to them, he said.
Look in the southwestern sky around twilight – no telescope or binoculars needed. The show will even be visible in cities if it’s a clear night.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantshe would not like to drive for tznius purposes.
Perhaps someone can explain this to me. Assuming, of course, you’re not driving some unusual, expensive or otherwise outlandish car, in what way is a woman not driving related to tznius? I just don’t get it.
The Wolf
November 26, 2008 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm in reply to: Is a Boy Looking to Date a Girl or a Chavrusah? #1217838WolfishMusingsParticipantBig One,
No, I think you missed the point. You’re talking about halacha, and we’re discussing the metzius.
You can make the argument that women shouldn’t learn gemara because that’s the way we’ve done it until now (much like the reason for the second day of Yom Tov). But that doesn’t mean that the TT’s statement about women “not having intellectual stability” is factually correct today.
The Wolf
November 26, 2008 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm in reply to: A mitzvah for an aveira? or at someone else’s expense? #626775WolfishMusingsParticipanthas anyone else discussed this with their Rabbi besides for me? Just curious. I have an actual psak, but some of you are going by “feelings.”
I haven’t directly discussed it with my rav, but he brought the matter up in shul at a seudah sh’lishis. Bottom line* — since this is the cultural norm in today’s society and completely not derech chibah, it’s not a problem.
The Wolf
* Don’t like it? Then discuss with your own rav. YMMV.
WolfishMusingsParticipantWhat is Your Hashkafic Affiliation?
A little bit of this, a little bit of that.
I once wrote about we take some things from different derachim of Judaism. I called it “Wolfish Judaism.”
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantCome on everyone, don’t be shy! It’s not as if we’re going to say, “That’s funny, you LOOK a bit older…!”
That’s funny, you LOOK a bit older…
The Wolf
November 25, 2008 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm in reply to: Is a Boy Looking to Date a Girl or a Chavrusah? #1217828WolfishMusingsParticipantJoseph,
Please don’t tell me that you’re equating the words of the Tur and the Torah Temimah with the words of God. As great as they were, you can’t honestly tell me that every word of the Tur is the equivalent of words in the Chumash. I don’t think you believe that!
Your story (giving, for the sake of argument that it’s 100% true) only proves that miracles can happen through tzaddikim. It does nothing to prove that their words are free of cultural influences of the times and places in which they lived.
Furthermore, I don’t see how this should be a problem. The Tur and the Torah Temimah weren’t born gedolim. They grew up — just as you and I did. Their lives were influenced by things that happened to them personally, by their culture and the times in which they lived. To argue that they grew up in a cultural vacuum is ridiculous. And to argue that their thought processes, their decisions, the way they lived their lives and their Torah wasn’t affected by their environment is also ridiculous.
Look at it this way — if the Tur grew up in today’s world, would he have been the same person? Let’s grant, for the sake of argument, that he would have had the same level of intelligence, the same personal piety and the same desire to learn. Do you really think that the Tur of this modern-day sage would be the same as the Tur we have now?
The Wolf
November 25, 2008 9:00 pm at 9:00 pm in reply to: A mitzvah for an aveira? or at someone else’s expense? #626767WolfishMusingsParticipantjent,
lower case letters. learn to use them. please 🙂
the wolf
November 25, 2008 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm in reply to: Is a Boy Looking to Date a Girl or a Chavrusah? #1217821WolfishMusingsParticipantNobody,
I’m not saying anything “against” the gedolim, personal or otherwise. However, I believe that statements are not made in a vacuum. Whenever *anyone* makes a statement (from the highest gadol down through the lowliest person and even down to me) they are influence by their community, the times in which they live and the culture that they live in.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantjust a little question- why does it bother you? Whats the difference whether it’s in caps or not?
Because it’s difficult to read and is the equivalent of shouting. It’s also not proper netiquette. In addition, the point you’re trying to make isn’t any more valid because you type it in ALL CAPS.
The Wolf
November 25, 2008 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm in reply to: Is a Boy Looking to Date a Girl or a Chavrusah? #1217819WolfishMusingsParticipantOK, for the sake of simplifying the argument, let’s strike “personal biases” from my question. How about answering it now…
Just out of curiousity, is it at all possible that the statements made by the Torah Temimah, the Tur (or any other gadol for that matter) could be influenced by their environment, their community, their location and their own upbringing?
The Wolf
November 25, 2008 6:44 pm at 6:44 pm in reply to: Is a Boy Looking to Date a Girl or a Chavrusah? #1217817WolfishMusingsParticipantWolf,
Absolutely not. With all due respect, it takes a great deal of ignorance to ask such a question.
Joseph,
Please tell me that you’re kidding and that I am dense and missing the sarcasm.
The Wolf
November 25, 2008 6:02 pm at 6:02 pm in reply to: Is a Boy Looking to Date a Girl or a Chavrusah? #1217815WolfishMusingsParticipantoomis, The quoted meforshim are 100% Toras Emes. As true today, as the day it was written.
Bogen,
Just out of curiousity, is it at all possible that the statements made by the Torah Temimah, the Tur (or any other gadol for that matter) could be influenced by their environment, their community, their location and their own upbringing and personal biases?
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantThank you SJS.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantOf course, you have to keep in mind that my count in years is in wolf years. To get my real age, you have to divide by 7, multiply by the hypotenuse of the right triangle, adjust for the cosine of the tangent to the arc of the circle and divide by the speed of light raised to the power of pi. Oh yes, and then take that answer, feed it to the octopus at the zoo, wait for him to spit out some ink and see the shape of the number formed in the ink.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantWow, WOLF!!! You come across a bit younger. I always thought youre more in your 70s.
Yep. I always give off that youthful appearance. 🙂
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantWolf – What if you pass a Yid late stuck in Hicksville or highway (no mans land) and your cell is out?
For starters, I rarely leave the city, so it’s not too much of an issue for me.
In any event, if something like that were to occur, I would offer to physically go and get help. I still would not take a stranger in my car. Feel free to disparage me for it if you like.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantAs of my next birthday (Feb 30), I will be 98.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantI get asked by chasidish men a lot to drive them places, you dont think thats untzniusdik with me being a 19 year old girl?
Forget tznius for the moment, unless you know these men, it’s downright unsafe.
The rule in my car is that I don’t pick up hitchhikers, under any circumstances, no matter how “frum” they look. If someone is broken down on the road, I’ll offer to call for help, or possibly help out in some other way, but I will not allow strangers in my car. It’s a simple matter of safety.
The Wolf
November 24, 2008 5:28 pm at 5:28 pm in reply to: A mitzvah for an aveira? or at someone else’s expense? #626731WolfishMusingsParticipantJent,
Please… stop shouting (typing in all CAPS). It hurts to read and it doesn’t make your point any stronger.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantHarav Hagoan Reb Shmuel Wosner, One of the the Poskei Hador, writes in a Kol Korei:
A Woman who drives is considered “OIVER AL DAS YEHUDIS”
I’ve love to know the context of this statement, as well as its parameters. Anyone have any further info?
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantSJSinNYC, it’s worth putting a little strain on the country for torah.
mw,
It’s very nice of you to be generous with everyone else’s money. Especially the money of non-Jews who have absolutely no obligation to support Torah learning.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantWolf, I posted a reply on YOUR entry regarding the ywn cf creation debate.
Joseph,
I’m sorry, but I can’t seem to find the post you’re talking about. Please email me and I’ll respond.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantYou can do a Google search on my name to find out why. 🙂
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipant“not required to allow one’s parent to make his/her life a living hell.”
Yeah but imagine what your next life will look like? Oh man…
noitallmr, I’m confused. Are you saying that one *is required* to allow to his parents to make his life a living hell if they choose to do so?
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantOf course there is a limit to honoring your parents. One is not required to allow one’s parent to make his/her life a living hell. However, you must be careful how you go about it — you certainly shouldn’t demean, denigrate or humiliate your parent in public or private.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipant“Can someone please quote a phrase in the torah where it says to sit and learn all day and mooch off people? “
There may not be a pasuk, but I think that it is in our own self-interest to have people learning day and night. We need people who are going to become talmidei chachomim. We need people who are going to be experts in halacha to answer shailos. We will need people who can give us a Torah perspective on events in the world. As such, I think it is in our own self-interest to have people learning all day and preparing to fill these roles.
However, I also believe that the current kollel paradigm is not sustainable. Nor do I think that it is good for the community or the individuals involved. I believe that kollels should have strict entrance requirements, so that only a certain percentage will remain. They should (like any advanced student) be required to prove their competency from time to time and maintain a sufficient level of scholarship (must like you must maintain a good GPA to remain in a graduate program).
Everyone else should go to work and support those who are learning, as they, too, have an interest in the next generation of leaders of k’lal yisroel. As they also have a requirement to learn, I think the yeshivas should have an open enrollment policy for night/weekend sedarim, allowing anyone who want to learn to come in and learn during those periods.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantThat is a very long schoolday – are you exaggerating or is that the way it is now?
Not an exaggeration. Nor is it new.
When I was in high school back in the 80s, We started with Shacharis at 7:30. The day ended at 6:20. Then, there was night seder from 7:00 until Ma’ariv at 9:00. Night seder started out with two nights a week in 9th grade and progressed up to five nights a week in 12th.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantCheck out the list of tags under the reply box.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantiluvchulent,
There’s no reason to post the exact same thing in two different threads. I responded to your point in the other one.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantFrom a strictly halachic standpoint, it is Muttar to copy Cd’s. It is YOUR property, and Halacha doesn’t recognize an idea or intelectual concept as something which can be copyrighted, and thus it can’t ever be considered ‘stolen’.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that. Historically, Rabbonim *have* issued “copyrights” to publishers of seforim in the past. For example, if someone put through the effort to have a Shas printed in a town, then no one in that area could print another Shas for a certain number of years. This was done to encourage people to print seforim and put the effort into publishing them. If this was done for a work that we would consider “public domain” (such as the Gemara, the Rambam, etc.), then certainly it would have been done for newly created works.
While the historical precedent doesn’t cover copyright as we know it today, to say that Rabbonim did not recognize the idea of intellectual property is just wrong.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantJoseph,
Use em instead of i.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantBored –
She said that she was looking for a co-ed school. Prospect is not co-ed.
The Wolf
WolfishMusingsParticipantYashrus,
I’m sure you’ve heard the phrase “Naval B’r’shus HaTorah.”
The Wolf
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