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A clone would be more like an identical twin- same genetically as the person who donated his cells to the clone. Yet, since genetics alone do not
We’re assuming that somatic cells that were taken from another person and converted into an early embryo in the lab were then implanted into a surrogate mother. The question would be is the birth/surrogate mother the halachic mother (I’m sure halacha already deals with this) or the source of the maternal DNA- ie the mother of the person who donated the cells to be cloned. I’m surprised you did not ask who would be the father- the only possibility I can think of is the source of the paternal DNA- the donor’s father, but I wonder if that would be halachically valid, whether if differs from a “usual” case of IVF, which most poskim hold that the paternal genetic donor is the halachic father (notable exception being R’ Chaim Kanievsky who apparently holds that an IVF baby is not meychuas to his genetic father).We have one of those- and had a hard time finding one to buy at the time, and this was several years ago. Basically, getting an all-in-one printer did not work for us since there’s no phone jack next to the desk where we keep the printer, and the shelf by the only accessible phone jack is not big enough to hold the large all in one printers, so we have a separate fax machine that only gets plugged in when needed (there are still those people/companies who won’t accept a scanned document by email, only a fax, for whatever reason…), and a printer/copier/scanner that gets used much more often.
MIndful, you bring up some good points how homeschooling can benefit kids. Of course, not every parent is capable of teaching, with the knowledge, patience, creativity it involves, even with on-line support, so that would be a factor why it works for your family, but may not for other families.
You describe how your kids are better off because they don’t have pressure, stress or grades, etc. Also, they are not exposed to some of the bad behaviors and negative social interactions that can sometimes happen at school.
The thing is, that these things do happen in real life. At some point the home-schooled kid will join the workforce, and have to interact with co-workers. Some might not be so nice. There will be deadlines, and stress, and pressure, bosses to please and reward/punishment in terms of salary, bonuses, getting fired. They may have to work with a team and conform to company policy. Will kids who were educated in a stress-free bubble and be trained to be independent learners be able to handle this? Is there research out there on the success of home-school kids in the workplace? And how long does home-schooling continue- also for HS? Will these kids go to regular yeshivos/seminaries/colleges (if applicable) or study independently?If you are going to assur footballs made from pigskin, or hush puppies, you would also have to assur shtreimels and borsalino hats.
basar v’chalav is assur b’hana’a. Skins/fur of non-kosher animals are not a problem.I think the level is really too low to have any effect on you unless you ate tons of them, but who knows?
I agree ZD, use of the words “bible” , “Hebrews”, referring to the Malchus as a corrupt dictatorship, not differentiating between Shaul Hemelech’s reign and Beis Dovid, leaving Hashem’s choice of the melech totally out of the picture- none of this is exactly Yeshivish shproch. No wonder why this thread was in moderation for so long.
That’s because poppy seeds have low levels of opiates in them. Opium is produced from the pod of the poppy plant that contains the seeds that fill your hamentaschen. Remember the scene in the Wizard of Oz where Dorothy and co. fall asleep in the poppy field that the Wicked Witch planted?
“The main point is that in rural societies there isn’t much to do in Winter and after dark. ”
But Jews were not part of the rural society- they were not allowed to own land, and they were not working the land- that was what the peasants did. They were mostly traders, shopkeepers and craftsmen, their work was not seasonal like farming. If you could afford candles, then you could continue making shoes- or learning – into the night.
I don’t understand the argument though- what does the number of Jews learning in shteibels 100 years ago have to do with how many Jews are learning in Yeshivos in E”Y right now? How does the fact that there may or may not have been more people learning Torah back then impact on how much the Israeli govt is paying the 140,000 yeshiva/Kollel men now?CS, I would advise to stop while you are ahead. What you write will be interesting and enlightening, but will not change anyone’s opinion on these practices, if anything, it will reinforce them, which is what I think happened with the last thread. You’re just asking for certain posters to attack you and Chabad in general, and I think we’ve all have had enough of that. I am sure you have better things to do with your time.
Interesting mashal, 5ish.
So if you ask Hashem for rain, or a shidduch, or parnassa or a refua shleima, since you are asking Him to do things for you, it is not davening? What then is davening? Only the shevach part, not the bakasha? Or are you trying to say that it is who you are turning to that defines it as davening- if I ask Hashem to give me $2000 to pay my rent it is davening, but if I ask a person, it is not.
If you asked someone to pass the ketchup and there is no ketchup in the house, or the person is miles away- meaning it is beyond the ability of that person to do what you asked, but you turn to him anyway assuming he has some super-natural ability to help you, is that ok?I’d like to remind everyone of an exchange between Rochel and Yaakov- Rochel demands of Yaakov: Hava li bonim- give me kids, or it’s if I am dead. Yaakov got angry at her and answers, Hatachas Elokim anochi- am I instead of G-d who has withheld kids from you? Yaakov felt it was inappropriate of Rochel to ask him to do something that only Hashem can do. Rochel’s answer was (see Rashi), your father davened for your mother…meaning, her intent was not that Yaakov should be the one bringing her kids, but he should daven to Hashem for her so that Hashem would give her kids, just like Yitzchak did for Rivka. He answers- but unlike Yitzchak, I have kids, it is you who needs to daven. Rochel answers- then daven like Avraham who did not have kids. Yaakov- but Sora gave Avraham her shifcha. So Rochel gives Yaakov her shifcha, and has surrogate kids through her, and eventually, her own children.
A lot of important hashkafa here- the power of a tzaddik’s tefiilla vs the power of the tefilla of an individual with a need. The importance of hishtadlus- or some would call it a segula- to actualize a tefilla. And the fine line between believing that the tzaddik has G-d-like ability (which is what Yaakov was afraid Rochel was saying) vs the Tzaddik is intervening with Hashem (which is what Rochel meant).I’ve found that the doctors I have to wait a long time for are behind schedule because they give more time to each patient than is scheduled. Which is a good thing- they actually do a thorough exam, listen to the patient, take time to explain things, and don’t just shove you out the door because your 10 min is over. The problem stems from the tight scheduling of the appointments, which in the system in E”Y, is beyond the Dr’s control. I once went to a Dr (a specialist who only works 1 morning a week) and several of us realized we were booked for the same time slots- and these were appointments made long in advance, not emergencies that were squeezed in. The dr still gave each patient the time she needed, which meant that not only were patients waiting, but the dr had to work overtime. When i asked her why they schedule an impossible schedule, she said that this way people can get appts within 6 months, and don’t have to wait 1 yr.
Just a reminder, the OP’s question was not about appreciating and deriving pleasure from Hashem’s world and enjoying the food that we eat, the question was about making such enjoyment a priority to the extent that it defines the person and his purpose in life.
One more thing-scientists who designed viral vectors are aware of the potential dangers inherent in using viruses and have accordingly adapted these viruses for safe use. when viruses are used to deliver recombinant DNA, the real virus is not used. A special packaging cell containing viral proteins prepares a viral capsid with the DNA of interest inside – not the complete viral genome, just the components necessary for getting the DNA to where it needs to get. The virus is missing the essential genes to produce more of itself – it can only be made in the packaging cell. These fake virus particles are used to infect the target cell. The DNA of interest integrates into the target genome. Not the viral DNA, because it is not there. No new virus can be made, it’s a dead-end infection.
With all due respect to your grandfather, recombinant DNA technology has totally revolutionized research biology and made huge contributions to medicine (think insulin, growth hormone..) It is not the same field that it was 40-50 years ago.Re your question about the theoretical hybrid pig/cow, to explain what Mentsch was referring to:
if one would discover a new breed of cows, even though it has the signs of a kosher animal, we could not automatically eat it, since our Rabbanim have established an additional criteria – that there is a tradition (mesora) that the animal is kosher. Without that mesora, we cannot eat it. These are real questions that have come up from time to time. Since your new hybrid obviously cannot have had a mesora establishing it as a kosher animal, we cannot eat it. In this way animals are different from plant products.josh your description of the horrors of recombinant DNA is not based on reality, at least not the one that I live in (I have worked with recombinant DNA using viral and non-viral vectors). Once the recombinant gene has been integrated into the target genome, it is no longer “infectious”, The virus that was used as its vehicle of delivery is long gone. The gene can’t just pop out and enter some other cell and integrate into its genome, which is what you seem to be describing. What can happen is that if the modified plant in question is mated with another plant, there can be recombination between the chromosomes and therefore genetic inheritance to the next generation. But they cannot mate or cross with anything, only with species similar enough genetically to them- so the trait can spread only within species that are close enough, not the entire ecosystem.
In terms of us being affected when we eat in, whole genes cannot enter our cells from the digestive track- first because the DNA content of what we eat is broken down to its molecular components, and second because there are no transporters on the cell surface for genes, only the building blocks can enter (hence the need for the virus carrier that you described). Even if a gene could enter, it would not spontaneously recombine with your genes. Is this could happen as you describe, then anytime we ate a plant we would be acquiring plant genes and eventually turn into plants, and we would have to be as wary as regular food as GMOs. If GMOs are causing cancer or infertility- IF – it is because of something else, not because the recombinant gene is entering our genome.I took a look at ref 12 in the list- it stood out to me because of the journal it was published in. Turns out it is a letter/interview by a scientist who conducted a well publicized but unpublished (at the time) study about the affects of GMOs on fertility and mortality. What is interesting is that for each of her points, there is a rebuttal by other scientists. One by one they question her results. Some of the issues that they raise: there is a much higher than normal death rate among newborn rat pups in the control group, and lower weights in controls than is normally found in these rats. This was a rad-flag to them that there was something wrong with the way these rats were taken care of during the experiment, which raises questions on any conclusion made from the study – when the background death of controls is abnormally high, it is hard to conclude that the even higher death rate in the experimental group is due to whatever they claim. Another issue, since rats were grouped together several in a cage and the food given out freely, sometimes along with regular food, they have no way of knowing how much of the GMO each rat actually consumed. Also, The GMO food was not matched to the control in terms of strains, type of food, nutritional content etc, so there are other factors that can affect the results besides whether it was GMO or not. Basically, hard to know if the results are meaningful since proper protocols for taking care of the animals, for feeding them, for determining the origin of the food and the actual GMO content were not followed.
Akuperna – experiments on small rodents actually proves a lot, and is used all the time in valid science, as models for many diseases, preclinical trials for meds, and to dissect basic biological processes. Such experiments in the present have proved that a drug may have potential to cure a particular cancer and serve as the basis for designing a phase I human clinical trial. Or show how a particular gene mutation leads to a particular disease. You cannot dismiss the studies that the OP brings down just because they were done in rats, this is not something reserved for eugenics and pseudoscience. Please stick to valid arguments involving things like flawed methodology, improper design of controls, conclusions based on correlations and not causations, results that are not reproducible.
from the OOT kiruv families that I know, they have to be a lot more involved with their kids’ chinuch than those living IT, which is ultimately good for the kids. The kids grow up knowing that they have a special tafkid in life, that it is meaningful to be a fum Jew, and they are used to hearing/thinking about the meaning behind the practices that are taken for granted in many a frum home. In this way, they come out stronger.
It takes certain type of parents to be able to pull that off which is why kiruv is not meant for everyone.
CS is right that these kiruv families are not as isolated as a lone chabad shaliach in the middle of nowhere, but then again, the chabad shaliach has a strong network/support system, with many others doing exactly what he is doing- for example, kids may be studying online with other kids of shluchim around the world, while the kids from the kiruv family is going to the local day school with kids who are not frum.It’s not ok to eat a mule because it does not have split feet/chew its cud, not because it is a result of kelayim.
Once made, we are allowed to eat kelayim and/or benefit from it. (except to use a grafted esrog for the 4 minim)
I’m wondering if you ever ate a grapefruit- it’s actually a cross of an orange and a pomelo, made back in the 1700s (check out Wikipedia). Totally kosher.I have no experience with your specific issue, but I have seen some of the Jewish publications tackle sensitive emotional and psychiatric issues. Perhaps you would consider writing a letter to the editor with your story and ideas for a support group, and provide an email address where people can contact you and in that way, you can start a support group.
So your question really is, is it ok to force adults to become adults?
It’s hard to tell Joseph when you are kidding.
As you can tell, this is a sensitive topic for me…Cant’s stand (in) shoes, even those claiming to be “comfort” shoes. They come off first thing when I come home, and then it’s crocks. Can’t walk barefoot either.
Is it a proper “welcome me back gesture” to poke fun of what might be a traumatic experience for other people?
Bad manners are bad manners, whether done by old timers, new timers, or old-new timers. Just pointing it out so that all posters can learn to be more sensitive when commenting.
In any case, my comment was not meant to be personal- I don’t know Toi and was not around here in the old days- and I usually try to avoid getting “personal” with posters here.We had civil and government classes in school. They covered the levels and format of government, how bills become laws, election processes etc. It was not a “halacha” class in US law – i.e. did not detail the actual laws themselves, it would be impossible in any case to teach every law. And a lot would be state specific, and then what happens if a person grows up and moves out of state? Ignorance of the law is not a valid legal defense, but it is probably impossible for any person to know every single law on the book.
BY the way Toi, I think you should pick other things to joke about. There is nothing dumb about an air raid siren to someone who has experienced them. It’s pretty frightening being woken up in the middle of the night by the loud wail, getting the sleeping kids into the safe room, and then waiting to hear the boom. And we live in an area that was not targeted, B”H, Kal V’chomer for those in areas where missiles actually fell.
We still have them too. We actually had them replaced a few years ago- the home front command had a set-up in a neighborhood mall and you went with your old ones and got new ones. I can’t remember if we replaced them all or just upgraded the kids’s masks to larger sizes (the old ones were designed for babies). It can’t have been all that long ago, considering the age of my youngest.
It took 40 min because the governor (or whoever was responsible) forgot his password and could not get into the system. I kid you not- saw this on a different news site.
hmm..an 80 ft high cow- would have to have a very strong heart and circulatory system to pump blood that high, and yet have a way that blood vessels would not burst from such high blood pressure. Bones would have to be strong enough to support such a large body. digestive system would have to handle eating enough food for such a large animal. that’s a lot of genetic engineering.
Learn something new every day. I never thought that a Jewish marriage in itself is a legal marriage, I just thought that the mesader kedushin is qualified to sign the civil marriage license, and that it’s 2 separate things.
CTL- why is that fraud? One is allowed to have a Jewish halachic marriage without a civil license, no? Legally there would be no difference between a couple who lives together stam, or a couple who lives together with a kesuba. Is it fraud to live together unmarried and collect both pensions/ss? if not, then why would it be fraud to do so with a kesuva? The rav is just ensuring that these couples are not violating halacha. Please explain.
RebYidd people already do make dinosaurs the same way they make cars- in factories on machines, using plastic and other man-made materials. check out the shelves in the toy stores, you’ll find many inanimate models.
It’s not enough to have some dinosaur DNA to clone a dinosaur- you need an intact genome, all the chromosomes arranged in the proper way in an appropriate carrier – the nucleus of an actual cell. If say, you had a dinosaur egg with genome intact you could theoretically activate it and transfer it to some surrogate, but you can’t just take a few snippets of DNA found in some fossil and randomly insert them into some other specie’s egg and expect to get a dinosaur. And you can’t modify a bird genome to express dinosaur traits unless you know the sequence of dinosaur genes encoding those traits- which we don’t.
Anyway, if Hashem wanted us to live side by side with Dinosaurs, he would a) not have destroyed them in previous worlds or according to other opinions, b) created the actual creature and not just the fossil.That plots sounds familiar. The science behind that imaginative piece of fiction was not very plausible.
I believe for many of these kids, it’s not that they are choosing a secular lifestyle because they think it is better, or have integrated into the secular world, but they are running away from a world in which they were hurt, rejecting what they perceive has rejected them. Their lifestyles are often not considered “normal” even by secular standards. But if they can get past their pain, recover from their addictions, etc they can return to the life they rejected.
Hey, LC, it’s starting to work- I had too little sleep last night but wasn’t grumpy and was able to be calm with my kids. My tantruming terror actually had a good day today and even offered to pay me some of his own money to make up for the way he has been behaving lately (I turned him down, and told him his good behavior is all the payment I need)! The house is neat, bedtime went smoothly, I have all the ingredients ready for tomorrow’s meals. Make way for SuperMom!
Thanks, LC, but it hasn’t taken effect yet.
“The days where cruelty, paganism, and even immorality were ideals to uphold are far gone.”
I guess you don’t read the news. Cruelty seems to be dished out on a regular basis in many parts of the world. Immorality has been put on a pedestal to admire. OK, I’ll give you paganism (although there are places in the world it is still practiced). But the western world is far less religious nowadays than it was in the past. Is atheism any better?
But the situation in EY and the US are quite different- most of the US is out of missile range of its enemies, even if they would be stupid or crazy enough to shoot a missile. It would be impractical and unnecessary to implement the type of readiness that Israel has in the US.
The more serious threats of Iran or N Korea involve nuclear warheads- all the precautions and civil preparedness won’t help against those.
Growing up during the cold war, I can remember drills in school where we were told to hide under the desks with arms over heads. Yeah, that would have done the trick.
who remembers this:
“This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. In the event of a true emergency…”