WinnieThePooh

I don’t think anyone is denying that there are lots of singles of all ages who want to get married but have not yet.
The debate is whether to call this a crisis. Crisis puts people into crisis mode- girls start to panic if they are not married by 20, because they are scared that means they will stay single forever. That puts pressure on people to make hasty decisions, to date before they are ready. We don’t want to exchange a shidduch crisis with a divorce crisis. Let’s take the alarmist reactionist attitude out of it, and try to help people get married without frightening them, making them feel desperate.

Women are allowed to work on chanuka. There is a minhag specifically for women- not men- to not to work while candles are lit, specifically for the first half hour – the min. time they need to be lit. While I don’t think that this minhag means that she will miss her deadline (the family could be eating supper together during this time), the husband is always welcome to pitch in!

“Today’s children are the SICKEST GENERATION EVER!”

Ahh, nostalgia for the good old days when mothers buried their kids. When they lived in fear of polio. When smallpox killed millions. When youngsters died of “consumption”. When typhus decimated entire families. Before big, bad Pharma invented vaccines and antibiotics. Yup, I prefer all that to a kid with ADHD or learning disabilities or having to give a kid a gluten free diet.

Do you really believe that vaccines cause all that? How come you did not include the rate of kids dying in car accidents while you were at it?
Also confusing- are you blaming all vaccines or only MMR? If the former (which I suspect, or else you would not have included SIDS which is defined as sudden death in babies under 1 yr of age, before they get the MMR), then you have to compare to the death rates of all diseases that have been prevented by vaccines. And not just deaths, but also complications as bad as allergies and ADHD etc that you listed above. Also, you can’t compare to the low death rate in a (mostly) vaccinated population, but what the death rate would be without vaccination.

Here’s some other statistics:
there were between 1000-to over 3000 polio deaths in the US in the early 19050s before the vaccine was introduced. That number dropped to around 500 in the years immediately after, and by the 1960s was basically 0. In the early 1950s, more than 15000 were left paralyzed by the disease each year.

Smallpox in the US was eliminated earlier- the vaccine was discovered by Jenner in the late 1700s. In the last US epidemic in 1902, there were 1596 reported cases and 270 deaths. In the 18th century, 400,000 Europeans died each year from smallpox, mortality rate among children was 80%. But elsewhere in the developing world, small pox continued to kill millions until its eradication in 1979 following global efforts of vaccination by the WHO.

Rubella: In an epidemic in 1964-65 (before development of first vaccine) there were 12.5 million cases of rubella, affecting 20,000 babies whose mothers were infected- 2100 neonatal deaths, 11,000 deaf babies, 3,500 blind, and 1,800 mentally impaired.

And finally, our favorite, measles, which you said resulted in zero deaths. Did you miss the report of the baby who died of the recent epidemic? One simple google click gave me a WHO website that stated that “Global measles deaths have decreased by 84% from an estimated 550 100 in 2000 to 89 780 in 2016.” Most of these deaths were in children under 5. The drop in death rate was due to vaccination. If you want US data, then the CDC reports that prior to 1963 when the vaccine was introduced, there were 400-500 deaths each year.

I assume you will say that the CDC and WHO make up these numbers to scare people so that they will vaccinate.

truthishidden
some comments on your last post to 2cents about those who are not protected by vaccination
1. population under 12 months. Mother transferring immunity to their babies requires that they nurse their babies. Without going into whether it is good or bad, this would never cover all the babies, as nursing is not done 100% of that time for 12 months. Also, I do not believe that the immunity lasts as long as 12 months. For chicken pox, for example, it only lasts for 6 months. My fully nursing baby caught chicken pox at 9 months from her siblings- too old to be protected by maternal antibodies but too young to acquire immunity for the future.
2. When 2cents referred to those who were not fully covered because they only got 1 dose, he was referring I believe to children who were not yet of age for the booster, not those who did not comply.
3. When he referred to immuno-compromised people, he meant those that did not get the vaccine because of their conditions, not those that allegedly became immuno-compromised due to the vaccine. Anyway, I thought the theory was that vaccines lead to over-active immune systems- increased allergies, autoimmune disease; this group is the opposite- their immune systems are deficient and would not be able to deal with the the vaccine, and even more so, the disease.

I think the comma makes things worse, then it’s a list of 3 foods: turkeys, peas and carrots. (Remember Eats, shoots and leaves?) If anything a colon would be better- turkeys: peas and carrots.
If you want to add the quotes, you should put them around each name separately “Peas” and “Carrots”.
but best of all would have been “Trump Grants Traditional Thanksgiving Pardons to Two Turkeys Named Peas and Carrots.”

RebYidd, he must have had the same English teacher as It Is Time for the Truth

Little I agree with what you are saying. But it’s not about ranking, It’s not hard to know who the big poskim are who know more than your LOR on a particular issue.
Lucky are those who have a Rav who actually can wear multiple hats, and consults with someone bigger (in that area) with when they need to.

Stuart, I know what Daas Torah is, thank you very much- practically, not just as an academic concept. I brought a quote to show that since the very beginning, we were instructed to listen to our Rabbanim. You clarified this with semantics and how and when this concept is applied, I assume based on the “source” that you mentioned, which was actually a name of a professor and author- did you really expect us to interview him as to his thesis on the matter?
Dass Torah is applied as a gradient- ranging from the true chassid that consults Daas Torah, (i.e., a Talmid chochom/Rav whose knowledge of Torah gives him a greater clarity) on all matters, halacha, hashkafa and daily living, to those who never ask a Rav about any matter, even a halachic matter. Various groups/individuals lie at different places on this gradient.
And by the way, I was not trying to censure the MO world, but to show that your phrasing- that the MO have no concept of Daas Torah (as opposed to stating that they do not consult it as frequently as others) was not very complimentary.

Vaccination in Israel is actually quite accessible (and free) through Tipat Chalav, the well baby clinic. No need to sit in a Dr’s office exposing baby to sick kids. From almost birth until age 2 or so, parents take their babies there for periodic check-ups, monitoring growth and developmental milestones, and vaccinations according to the set schedule. Every neighborhood has them. It’s just a matter of remembering to show up for the appointment, taking the time from work or whatever to go. Afterwards, the boosters are done in school. They even started to give flu shots to the younger grades – something I never bothered with for my kids when it involved a trip to the clinic, since my kids have B”H not gotten the flu in the past and by the time I usually remember, the season is mostly over.

I suspect the high non-vaccination rate is due partly to ignorance and partly to the attitude of “hakol yehiye b’seder” and partly to the very busy lives of parents raising large families. Less exposure to media means less knowledge on medical issues in general (they are not reading all the scary stories out there on the internet and in parenting magazines), there are those who don’t even get the frum papers. And Israelis have sort of become used to relying on miracles for survival, hence the “hakol yehiye B’seder” (all will be well) attitude. This also explains why I so often see young children crossing streets by themselves or riding in cars without seat belts and car seats. It’s not because their parents don’t love their kids, it’s because they may not be fully informed of or think about the dangers so they just do what is most convenient and not necessarily what is smart or requires a bit more hishtadlus.
I don’t know if these factors apply to America.

Let me try to understand what point you are trying to make-
a. your store was shot out because you own a gun (your gun went off accidentally and shot thru the window?)
or
b. your store was shot out despite the fact that you own a gun (the gun did not actually prevent the crime)
or
c. Your store was shot out but you were able to prevent a robbery or bodily harm because you own a gun
d. none of the above, but you are scared stiff because your store was shot out, and the gun gives you a sense of security.

646-
1. I think you have forgotten that missiles flying at Israel is unfortunately not a thing of the past. Iran is trying very hard to build its own bases in Syria. Of course the leaders show no inclination to suicide. Why should they, when they have actively encouraged and convinced the masses to do it for them? Yes there is a difference between Jordan today and Jordan of 1967 – but note that the treaty was signed in 1994- many years had to pass, a whole new generation in fact, before it happened. We are discussing the situation on the ground today in the West Bank- incitement, a warped education system that inculcates lies and hatred, etc etc. In this environment, peaceful co-existence is not possible. The point of the slow-pace of the Oslo accords was for things to change so that the 2 peoples could live peacefully together. But that did not happen, and there is much evidence to believe that it won’t happen any time in the near future either.
2. They can’t build an economy because they don’t want to. Much easier to blame Israel for their problems than to do anything to fix them. It’s very convenient for them to claim victim-hood. All the conditions that you describe did not stop the Zionists from building an economy and the workings of a future state when they were under the British Mandate. Not having official diplomatic ties and trade with other countries does not force them to put every penny they have to building rockets, terror tunnels and paying reward money to terrorists’ families. They have gotten billions over the years from donor foreign countries to build their economy. Look how much they have accomplished.
3. This is not about who hates us more- Yishmael or Eisav. They both hate us- chazal distinguish the difference in that Eisav hates us no matter where we are- even from afar, while Yishmael gets riled up only when we are close. Being ruled over by the Jews is not a crime or immoral act on their part. The Arabs in E”Y were always ruled over by someone else. Jews have long been ruled over by Arabs. Under Arab rule, non-Moslems were treated like inferior citizens, which is how they got along with Jews living among them and why there was “peaceful” co- existence. They could not accept Jews in any other way, hence the hatred and desire to kill us when circumstances changed.

I am not relying on Hashem to bail out the state of Israel. I am relying on Hashem to bail us out of golus and bring the geula, which is the only true solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict and antisemitism in general. Yes, the current situation is not sustainable. Your solution is even less practical. When stuck between the sea in front and the enemy’s army in pursuit behind us, we don’t try to come up with defeatist strategies but we turn to Hashem for salvation. I don’t expect Europe or the US to understand this concept, but I would think that a frum Jew in Lakewood would.

646 your arguments do not stand.
1. In case you forgot, we have been attacked by all those countries in the past, even though it was suicidal (read up on the 6 day war a bit). It took Jordan and Egypt a long time to change their tune, and now I suspect they can maintain the cold peace only because there are others who are willing to take up the cause for them. They are not exactly our friends and allies. Meanwhile, there is a very real threat of a war breaking out in the North right now. Another war- seems that the threat of Israel bombing them to oblivion- or the fact that they have done so in the recent past- has not stopped the sovereign states of Lebanon and Syria. Iran does not have to send its missiles at us from Tehran because it uses Hezbollah and now Syria as proxies. That way Israel shoots back at someone else. If there was a Palestinian state, they would be exporting there as well. It’s also a lot easier to get away with shooting short-range homemade missiles and kite bombs than long-range missiles, which can be done from Gaza/the West Bank, which is less likely to risk what the world likes to call a “disproportionate response”.

2. Even if there was a state, the Palestinians would still be living in a situation where they have nothing to lose. Their leaders are not interested in building infrastructure and creating a vibrant economy. That is a liberal myth. Just look at the facts. Look at Gaza and what they did to what remained behind in Gush Katif after the withdrawal. Look at the funds that the EU etc sends them that goes to building terrorist tunnels, not desperately needed housing or hospitals. There’s a reason that Trump cut off funding to the PA. The corrupt PA will take everything for themselves and leave their people as victims. And they’ll still find a way to blame to Jews for their problems.

3. Gaza has complete autonomy now, with its own government. But the people are still in bad shape, their only focus is on terrorism. You’ll say it’s because of the blockade, because Israel does not let it control its own borders. But that would inevitably be what would happen to any state in the West bank too, or else Israel would be risking suicide. A state would have to be de-militarized and border-points would have to be monitored to prevent weapons being passed in and terrorists being passed out. Do not kid yourself that these people will realize that normalizing relations will improve their lives and that continuing on their path of terror would be suicidal. They have had nearly 30 years to realize this. And they are still teaching their kids to hate all Israelis and to dream of a Judenrein Palestine from river to sea. Reality is that your plan would not work. Not in the current environment with the Arab leadership as it is.

4. You started out saying the problem was that Israel took over the West Bank and Gaza in 1967, took away their right to self-control etc by not making them citizens or giving them independence. Which as others pointed out, they never had- they were always ruled by others. Now you state that the problem started in 1948 with the people doing something – i.e. founding of the state of Israel. Which means that you have a problem, not just with Israel ruling over the Palestinians, but with the fact that they rule over themselves. Sounds like you are for a 1 state solution afterall- and not one that includes Israel. Then you go on to state that the problem actually started much earlier, when Jews started coming back to the area even before 1948. So your problem is with the Jews being in E”Y at all… funny, that’s what the Arabs find problematic as well.

We are as likely to stop Arab hatred of us by giving them a state in the West Bank as we were able to stop European anti-semitism by assimilation, or by leaving Europe and getting a state of our own. By the way, I remember when people were so worried about the demographics and maintaining a Jewish majority in Israel in the face of a growing Israeli Arab birthrate. Then the iron curtain fell and a million Russians arrived. Even without them all actually being Jewish, it changed the whole equation. Which is why I prefer to leaving the problem solving up to Hashem and not Netanyahu or the Labor Left or Trump or you.

I’m only piping up to correct some factual errors here:
Baish’s interpretation of DNA inheritance: Males have X chromosomes as well – they get it from their mother, who has 2 X chromosomes- she got 1 from her father, 1 from her mother, and she can pass either to her son, so tracing the X does not trace maternal lineage. If however overall the genome shows mixing- X or any of the other chromosomes that could come from mother or father, yet the Y is identical indicating little mixing within the paternal line, the assumption would be that the mixing must have come from the maternal line. To prove maternal lineage, you would need to check mitochondrial DNA that comes from the mother.

Philosopher- the Avos and Emahos were not geirim, since there was no concept of Am Yisroel yet- the machlokes is whether that starts with Matan Torah or the Shevatim. Dovid was definitely not a ger, but his ancestor Rus was. So although your point about the importance of geirim is true, you need to defend it with true facts.

“Maybe now with CRISPR gene-editing on the horizon, genetic diseases will become a thing of the past. ”

Maybe…I still remember the excitement 25 years ago when viral-mediated gene therapy seemed to be the answer to genetic disease. They even had clinical trials for cystic fibrosis. Those were actually a disaster and had to be halted and the field of gene therapy has not been the same since.
CRIPSR is more efficient/better than other methods, but the same problem applies to all gene therapies- delivery to the right place, and targeting all the affected cells. Cystic fibrosis was a good disease to target because the CFTR gene needed to be delivered to the lungs, which are accessible by inhaling. The brain and nervous system are much harder to target. What is more realistic at this point in time is gene editing in the embryo following IVF. This of course opens a medical ethics mine-field of designing the perfect healthy baby….

“Point three can also be applied to wearing seat-belts in cars. Even with seat-belts, there is no guarantee that one won’t be injured. ”

You are right of course, but somehow when it comes to things that people don’t understand as well, emotion takes over logic.
And no one asks a potential shidduch suggestion if they regularly wear a seat belt, or whether their parents wear seat-belts, and no one is stigmatized for having not buckled up in the past, even though this could very well affect someone’s health/safety.

B”h no personal experience, but have some knowledge of genetics and a quick read of Tay Sachs websites filled in the missing blanks for me.
Your story brings up several interesting points that people might want to think about, I’m curious how people feel.
1. Had this boy’s parents been tested and their mutation carrier status identified, they presumably would not have married and this boy would not have been born. But he has lived 20 something healthy, productive years, presumably bringing his family nachas, doing mitzvos, learning Torah. Should all of that not have happened? Reminds me of Miriam’s protest on Amram’s divorcing Yocheved…
2. From what I read, LOTS is very variable- from mild symptoms to severe degeneration, both physical and mental, at different ages. This is similar to cystic fibrosis (also tested by Dor yeshurin)- there is a range of age of onset and disease severity. In some cases, it can be a disease that one can live with, although obviously it’s not at all pleasant. It is arguably different from the infant form of Tay Sachs that is always fatal at young ages. Yet, as far as testing and negating a potential shidduch, these are treated the same. Is that right?
3. Even with Dor Yeshurin, there is no way to guarantee a healthy spouse or healthy children. There are so many more diseases out there. Has the concept of genetic testing contributed to a feeling that we can control this, as suggested by the obvious hurt/pain expressed by AWOB when the testing of the dating couple failed to reveal a serious illness?

Since you were upset that the rest was ignored, here goes:
“amazon is reference to a tribe of all woman”, this was addressed above by RebYidd

Yahoo is a name of Hashem. Huawei is a name of hashem. Huh? Since when? because they share some sounds or syllables with the way certain Christians mispronounce the Shem Hameforash? According to wikipedia, the founders of Yahoo “insisted they had selected the name because they liked the word’s general definition, as in Gulliver’s Travels by Jonathan Swift: “rude, unsophisticated, uncouth.” and “Huawei is the official translation of the firm’s Chinese name…The etymology of the character 华 is derived from “花” which means “flower.”[citation needed] This is hinted at in Huawei’s logo. The character can also mean “splendid” or “magnificent,” but nowadays mostly refers to “China” or “(ethnic) Chinese” (see also Names of China)…The second character of Huawei’s name, 为, means “action” or “achievement,” thus Huawei literally means “Chinese achievement.”[25] .”

“samsung references gog sancheirev and nimrod.” kind of strange to take a word in a different language and convert part of it to roshei teivos in Hebrew…
apple references the chet eitz hadaas,” as I stated above, the apple has nothing to do with Chet Eaitz Hadaas.

“steve jobs last name means avoda.” And avoda can refer to the tasks the cohanim did in the beis hamikdash, or can refer to “avoda sh’balev” i.e. tefilla. So maybe that means that Steve Jobs is very holy or has a strong connection to G-d? Or maybe it means nothing?

Your valid points about the potential pitfalls of internet use would be so much stronger if you kept to logical statements.

Don’t get confused- This year your calendar will say that Tisha BAv is on Sunday, which is actually 10 Av. Since 9 Av is on Shabbos, when we do not fast/mourn, the fast is pushed off 1 day to Sunday.

“how many actually became gedolei hador in the past 30 years?”

Mass producing gedolei hador by age 50 or so (assuming bochur is in early 20s when he started to learn there) is a pretty high standard for any yeshiva, don’t you think?
I can think of several talmidei chachamim and roshei yeshiva/kollel who have learned in the Mir in the past 30 years though.

Midwest, not necessarily. Consider these points:
First of all, slonimer asked when it is appropriate to redt such a shidduch- it does not mean that the man in question is only looking for a single girl.
However, here are some reasons why he may want a girl who has never been married:
1. he is a cohein
2. Blending families, dealing with 2 sets of exes and the accompanying baggage can lead to a lot of strain on a relationship. He may feel that his second marriage may have more chance of success if his wife was not previously married.
3. There are a lot of older, single girls out there, maybe more than divorcees/widows, so why should he limit himself?

From the never married girl’s point of view, if she is older and been dating for a long time, she may feel that a divorcee is more “normal” than a never been married guy in his 30s or 40s.

To address the OP, it really depends on the girl and how willing she is to think out of the box, and how hard it has been for her in the never been married shidduch scene. Age may open her to the suggestion, but I think the exact age will differ for each individual. The only way to know is to ask what she wants, what she is willing to try- and to do it in a respectful, understanding way and not a pushy manner. She also may be more open to the idea for a specific suggestion that is very appropriate, rather than as a general, theoretical idea.

And yes, of course she needs to be careful and try to get objective info about him, and make sure he is not abusive or have psychological issues that can impede a marriage (and by the way, not-having-been-married-yet doesn’t guarantee that a guy doesn’t have those issues..). It will be helpful to her if you can provide as many answers and as much background as you can.

Yes Health, they need a back-up plan, it remains to be seen if they can get the remaining 9 out the same way.
But by the time they clear the jungle and blast out the rocks to make the roads that can bring in the trucks and borers and whatever else they need, and then dig down for half a kilometer, it could be months- by then they may just be able to walk out, as the rains would have ended, assuming that they have not gotten flooded out of their safe zone or run out of oxygen by then. The point is that they need a back-up plan that can be implemented now, because their chances get slimmer as time passes.

Hey, I’m sure we CRers can come up with something that the world expert cave explorers, Navy SEALS and mountain climbers who frequent the area have not thought of.
My kids suggested sending in a submarine. I’m sure none of the rescuers have considered that one.

I feel bad that the OP has not gotten a real recipe, so I will give mine for sweet, whole wheat egg challah (original recipe was for regular flour, but I switched to 80% WW and can’t tell the difference. actually, family likes it better).
Caveat: this works great in Israel, but from experience I have found that for some strange reason, converting between recipes in the US and Israel doesn’t always work- either flour is different, or climate affects rising, or something else makes a difference.
Hope I remember this by heart correctly- but it has to be more on target than DovidBT’s “recipe”

2 bags 1 kilo 80% pre-sifted whole wheat flour (or 14 cups regular flour)
2 c sugar
2 tbsp sugar
mix together and make well
Add to well:
4 Tbsp dry yeast
1 Tbsp sugar
1 cup warm water
Wait at least 10 min, until it gets very bubbly
Add 4 eggs
1 C oil
2 1/4-1/2 water- start with less and add if needed.
Knead well.
Cover and let rise in warm spot 1 hour. Punch down and let rise another hour.
Shape into challahs, brush with beaten egg and let rise again 1h.
bake for about 30-40 min at 180C (350F) depending on size of challahs, until golden brown on top.

Note: this recipe is large enough to take challa with a brocha, but too large to fit into one mixer bowl. I divide it into 2 bowls, kneed each with dough hook, and then transfer both to a large basin, kneed the batches together by hand so it becomes one and then let rise.
Note: for especially fluffy challah, particularly for WW, I read that one should add dough enhancer. I don’t have a commercial one so instead I improvise and use things I already have in the house- a pinch of ginger and about 1 Tbsp of potato starch, and I really see a difference!

Laskern- in Israel (and also many schools in the US as well), BY girls wear a uniform to school (which needs to be purchased) but besides shabbos/yom tov, they still need clothing for vacation days (2 months in the summer) and many change when they come home from school as well so that they don’t dirty the uniform. So expenses for clothing for girls still adds up.
While a suit and hat or 2 for a bar mitzva age boy are expensive, a girl usually gets more shabbos clothing than the boy does, so it still probably comes out more expensive, especially as they get older.

It is an interesting question- I would say, for younger kids, boys are more expensive (think bris, more diapers if boys take longer to toilet-train than girls, then bar mitzva, and here in Israel, girls BY schools are with a few exceptions free, while boys’ chadarim/talmudei Torah charge tuitiion), but as they get older, girls get more expensive- clothing, seminary (way more expensive than boys’ yeshivos), and then of course the big one- wedding expenses and associated clothing and new household purchases, and often support/apartment for the married couple- although technically the OP asked only until marriage, since promises for support are usually given before the marriage, which are conditional on it, I am including it.

“What about Israel? See my post above..”

Yes, a new immigrant gets financial assistance with things like housing, discounts on import tariffs, new purchases, ulpan to learn Hebrew, etc, for a limited time, and many communities are warm and inviting and take care of each other. I don’t advise showing up at the airport, but rather contacting Nefesh B”Nefesh state-side, they can advise on what benefits are available for his particular case, what communities might be appropriate, arrange for flight, as well as take care of the paper-work that is needed. I don’t think he would make it on a couple of hundred dollars though, even with assistance, and socialized medicine and other benefits. I know immigrants have come from Ethiopia and elsewhere with almost nothing and have been set up in Israel, but I think this sort of assistance depends on the country of origin, and I don’t know if an American would benefit. Nefesh B’Nefesh would know though.
In any case, do you think it is in his best interest to start over again in a new country/culture/mentality? Does he speak Hebrew?