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We are not the ones to judge. Iyov said basically the same thing ארץ נתנה ביד… HaShem did not hold him accountable, (only בלא דעת). If one truly wants to be mekarev such a person, it must be with much Secel and patience. But for a Jewish Neshamah, there is ALWAYS hope. It can always me rekindled, anytime, sometimes without warning, at a seemingly insignificant occurrence, thought, circumstance.
I’m hot.
I’m cold.What should I do?
Oh yeah!!! That time of year again…
Whole forests are being consumed…. maybe I should get a flue vac next time…
Symptoms: Hot and cold, simultaneously. Head aches till the moon. Throat on fire. Mucus and guk clogging up all systems…
GAON…. Wow! How’d you find that (oops, forgot you’re a Gaon!)
EVERYONE: Watch as it gets nuttier and nuttier with every post. Obviously mirroring indoctrination and inoculation they’ve been force-fed since day one. Propaganda committee has done a wonderful job.
And I have a niggling feeling the reason they kept this thread open is to let THEM show the world what’s in their mind. What they’re made of. Their psyche. And being the kind of people the were bainsacked (new word: to hijack and ransack another’s brain) to be, they fall for it and spew forth all their stuff. No shame of inhibition. אין לו בושת.
Bring it on!!! Let’s hear some more!!
A few points:
HaShem, in His infinite wisdom, closed down and stopped Nevuah, a most valuable and beneficial tool for us with which to rectify our ways and remain faithful and an Am Kadosh to Him, for a specific purpose. So that no one should be able to get up and claim כה אמר השם. And indeed not to soon.. The advent of Christianity emerged… Throughout our long and bitter Galus, how many tried that on us, only to be rebuffed by Yidden loyal to HaShem and His Torah. ישראל קדושים הם… we continue faithfully to wait for the arrival of our Mashiach. We are not led astray by people throwing around “texts”, “chapters and verses”, twisting Torah, logic, fact or Rambam. We have no need, nor a care for a “new testament”. Nor a third one.
It is well known what Rav Hutner remarked regarding the “movement”.
…And equally known what little froggie says about that remark nowadays.
It’s not moshav Leitzim. I’m here!!!
I see it coming… their obsession with the “texts”, Rambam… their way of twisting… Jews for Mashachists… third testament…
As I wrote on the other thread.. it’s getting SO PARALLEL..
What a certain Godol decades ago said that it’s the closest to Judaism, no longer holds true…
Bet you, in a couple of years they’re gonna say we killed him!-how did I miss that line “mechallel tzar baalei chayim” ?!?
I guess the other guys have kedushas baalei chayim..
As I wrote so extensively on the other thread – these people, so called followers, “Chassidim” are the ones making such a mockery out of the Chassidus. They are the one bringing such scorn and ridicule upon the zecher for the past Lubavetcher Rebbe נ”ע זצוק”ל. and ז”ל. If they’d only realize…
I myself was once was one time in Crown Heights for a Shabbos, some time after the Lubavitcher Rebbes’s petira. I took a stroll Shabbos afternoon and went in 770. On one corner I saw a fabrengen in earnest. Men of repute, אנשי צורה, around a table in deep discussion of Chabad teachings (assuming, obviously). One was talking while holding a bottle of ‘mashke’, I assume that’s the way it was done. Such a Nachas to see, a real Chassidus, coming together, fabrengen, discussing lofty ideas….
A the other side there was such commotion, tumult, noise cacophony, pandemonium. Dancing non-stop Yechi here, doing the Yechi thing there… Such a contradictory place, matzav…
They have such a rich Chassidus, so many great Rebbes to learn and glean from… Why are they doing this to the Chassidus, to the Zecher of the Lubavitcher Rebbe zichrono lervacha???
Thank you
Those people quote the word of the Rambam just as some others quote the verses from Isaiah 53 etc…
Just wondering down the line C”V… well let’s see; Sunday is taken, Friday is also booked, which day are they gonna do??
Slominer:
Sorry I didin’t get back to you earlier. I am SO BAD with names and stories. The names pop out almost as fast as I read / hear them.
The story with the three ztaddikim on the rooftop (maybe it was an attic?) – one of the was the holy Chozeh of Lublin. He fell out of a tiny window on Simchas Torah, hurt himself badly, and was niftar from his injuries on Tisha Ba’av. There were two others… <<OUT OF MEMORY>>
He obviously did NOT ascribe, or claim to be Moshiach EVER. He even had a sefer written – TO BE MEKABEL PNEI MOSHIACH. And I don’t think he was schizophrenic. He was awaiting (or as I wrote earlier PUSHING FOR) to greet another human being. PERIOD,
People pushing their agenda, their Toras luckshen as ‘Chassidus’ or of that sort, are only writing the Third Testament! They’re in good company. Season’s gr…
Read what I wrote earlier. There was never such an occurrence in Klal Yisroel, where one’s OWN Talmidim, followers heaped such scorn and Busha לאחר פטירתו.
And NOW I KNOW why Moshe Rabbeinu had to be Mispalel to HaShem to show the Yidden that Aharon was Niftar. (רש”י ויראו כל העם כי גוע אהרן), and HaShem had to show Malachim carrying Aharon’s bier. This Rashi mamesh comes to life!!!!
Thank you, all you crazies, for explaining to me a piece of Torah!
Someone once asked if the Shechita of a meshechit is kosher… who says the animal is dead… something “happened”…
And now another installment:
The reason no one succeeded him, and the reason they felt so desperate is because of something else. There’s a known story (sippur) I believe it was the great Maggid of Mezritch (forgot the beginning of the story) who had two great students before him. One was the great Baal HaTanya (incidentally he authored the Tanya), another was his colleague, another great Chassidic Master. Said the Maggid (think it was him): “This one (pointing to the Baal Hatanya) will have seven doros, and this one (the other one) will have until Mashiach’s day”.
Yes, his words live on. Seven means seven. And the other, their dynasty ב”ה does continue on קע”ה.
So if it was only seven didn’t it make sense to have Mashiach directly afterwards?!? I truly belive that was the ‘mekor’ for the ‘seven doros’, and that apparent;y was their rush to hasten his coming.But it doesn’t mean the DERECH of the Lubavitch, the path of all it’s Rebbes are to be lost. That’s their mistake. It’s the end of the line of Rebbes. Now we have their teachings, maamorim etc. And Lubavith Chassidim ought to continue in their path. It’s high time for them to finally totally and emesdig adapt to a lifestyle of LEARNING from the teachings of ALL Rebbes זכרונם לברכה, instead of having a live Rebbe guiding them. ‘Cause obviously that’s רצון השם. HaShem knew exactly how long the world needed his guidance… that is the most literal meaning of דיין האמת. HaShem looked at it from all sides and then decided what he should do.
If the Lubavite Rebbe נ”ע haden’t the time or presence of mind to arrange for a future (I posit it’s because he really thought he was going to ‘make’ Mashiach come)… now is the time for some true leadership. Let them set up a system, hierarchy of Rabbonim, leaders… LEADERSHIP. Not at the level of Rebbe ח”ו, only as Madrichim. So that a dynasty so great as Lubavitch continues on, and does not fade like so many other חדרים in the Chassidic world. I think it’s high time for them to reclaim Lubavitch. With a ברעקל אמת. ‘Cause that’s the only way it’s gonna go.
And read the above too… we are the closed minded people!!! Exactly what I wrote… that is fallout from a failed attempt to hasten… They’re not rational.. we cannot have a normal conversation, a normal back and forth… Chochom, care to read my above post? (assuming you comprehend the English language)
It is YOU GUYS who are making a mokery of Lubavitch, of the Chabad derech and all it’s Greats. Who ever heard of not affording their OWN REBBE a proper levaya? Gevald!! תלמיד חכם שלא נספד כהלכה. His aron (dare I say that word?!?) was rushed through, I hadn’t a chance to be melaveh properly. I came up from the subway and there are these crazies DANCING yechi… When the aron was brought out there was a sudden outburst of shouting and shrieking all around. I listened intently; “Rebbe, wake up!!” They ran with the aron in fear… Gevald!!! Is that an honor one afford one’s OWN Rebbe, Manhig? Shame, shame and shame.
And WE are the closed minded people!!!
And yet I, humble Little Froggie, will also attempt to explain the mishicist fiasco. And like other writers here, they are based upon certain ‘yesodos’, steps… Note, also, sources are based upon my own say-so…
Gemarah talks about the ‘famous’ Shalosh Sevuos. And the Gemarah continues שלא ידחקו את הקץ, literally and figuratively – don’t push it!
We are to daven in earnest, have a real and live צפייה as expounded, explained and clarified in numerous seforim. Indeed a vast part of our davening is directed to that end. Longing for Moshiach, for the Shechina, for the Avodah, for the very Jewish lifestyle HaShem intended…. It is our קיום throughout the very long and bitter galus.. which has taken on so many forms and shapes.
By some people, mostly the sublime, loftier, holier, this craving comes as a natural. Of course they crave for the holy Shechina, that’s their very essence. They’re more in touch with their Nashama… it’s the rest of המון עם to attain such a level of צפייה.
However, we are bound by these shevuos not to ‘push it’. A regular prayer, craving, yearning (and at times sitting on the ground) as explained in various seforim. But there’s a concept of ‘pushing it’. To forcefully bring it on. And that, HaShem does not want. Tzaddikim and righteous people do have a power to effect… but עצת ה’ היא תקום. At the end of the day (morning noon and evening too), He’s in charge. He is smarter than everyone, everyone with all their cheshbonos and calculation…. He knows just when. And we are bidden ‘not to force him’ so to speak.
I’ve come across ‘projects’ of this sort, where outstanding tzadikim ‘just couldn’t take it any more’, couldn’t hold out any longer and decided to ‘BRING’ Mashiach. One such incident I think (haven’t read that in many a year) goes back about 1,000 years ago. The holy group girded themselves for this difficult task, purified themselves long and hard. And every step of the way they were at first dissuaded (by various classes of heavenly angles), but after they stated their burning desired they were again cautioned, but also encouraged on. As the story goes they actually succeeded in capturing the samech mem and were proceeding to advance to Har Tzion… when it fell through (obviously it was not the right time). And how they were punished!! Of the four, two died on the spot, one went berserk and one was smitten with machlos r”l so bad for the rest of his life…. It’s an הנהגה of our בריאה and HaShem does not wish for us to interfere. Meddling into His domain backfires.
Another instance which comes to mind is about three Tzadikim on a roof… they came together from three different places, purified themselves and then went onto a roof ‘to bring Mashiach’. We cannot fathom their calculations, their thoughts, their emotions, their cravings… But obviously it was not the right time; it was not the will of HaShem. And then again, tragically, it backfired terribly.. they all suffered greatly. (I think one was niftar on Tisha B’av)
There were Tzadikim in our days who had an extra dose of צפייה. I remember Rav Nosson Vachtfogel, how he spoke and sang about Mashiach, how he visualized it. He lived and breathed with Moshiach on his conscience. (They say he always carried a suitcase with special clothing to greet Mashiach). Before him was of course the Chafetz Chaim.. he instituted a Kolel Kadshim.. to be ready for Mashiach.. It was on this thoughts constantly. A lot of his Sefarim talk about Mashiach.
But all this is in the category of צפייה. Extra craving, yearning… Another Manhig in our day, a real, unquestionable Tzaddik and Oved HaSHem, decided (for whatever reason, again we cannot fathom his reasoning) to push it a step further, and go for it. Slowly, from early on, while not declaring himself to be the Mashiach, has constantly been on it, pushing and pushing. The Bais Din… the talks… the Rambam… that was ‘pushing it’. Anyone with a trained eye saw he was pushing it. And, no question about it, he yielded great power in all Olamos. But HaShem willed it NOT. And it too backfired. Terribly. Of epic proportions. Take a look at these כתות that have evolved of late. Even the כת of ש”צ went lost after some years.. Here r”l it’s just getting stronger and nuttier.
These loonies won’t say זכרונו לברכה when mentioning his name even though זכרונו לברכה should be said upon mentioning a LIVING tzaddik (look at Rashi, parshas Vyera, ואברהן היה יהיה). There’s this ‘CONCEPT’ of ‘Gimel Tamuz’!! Indeed, others have a Yom Tov that day – it’s the day he came out of the hospital!!! And it’s taking a life of its own. A clan of disillusioned, out of touch with reality. A multitude of people in total DENIAL. To my opinion – that all a backfire. A terrible one.
Anytime I see someone with “the” Yarmulka, I say “here goes another… stand clear!” Another belonging to that clan of disillusioned…
Real Chassidim were devastated at the Petira of their Mentor, each community their own, they felt lost.. . And then they moved on.. Either there was another Manhig (often with a new Hanhaga) to adapt to, some adjusting… and life continued. As HaShem so ordained.. דור דור ודורשיו, older Manhigim finish their task.. new ones surface…In places where no Manhig is in place to be instated, Chasidim continue in the path of the past Manhig / Manhigim.. having lesser Manhigim, Madrichim to guide in the path of the aforementioned. But מהאט זיך א עצה געגעבן. These however have not. They were and are in total denial. And as opposed to what a Godol once said of them, I posit by some they’re not the closest resembling Yiddishkite anymore.
Yearn for it. Daven hard for it But don’t push it.
-My humble opinion
If you had Ahavas Yisroel, you’d disclose…
Why is one who’s screen name is ACHDUS driving such a wedge?!?
Don’t we have enough problems???
CA: Yes, but it isn’t suffocating, no danger of fire r”l (from our overheating central processing unit)
How Silly!!!!
Great minds think OUT OF THE BOX!!!
againstallthishock: You try getting a straight answer from RY – good luck!!!!!!
And lest you be surprised later – Lilmod Ulelamaid is a girl!
LuL: That quote is not an incorrect one. A good line, one can learn from anyone. Meforshim do not criticize them for this statement. As too Chazal learn a thing or two from Lavan & Co. (ויעש משתה) A good thing you can learn from anyone.
And number two…
I’ve been here quite long enough (actually TOO LONG!!). Seen these cycles come and go. You have these long timers with their issues, predicticalities, come to the board each with his/her take. And then wvey now and then, a new one logs on and bashes the crowd, without having to know the very nature of its fabric…. to quote האחד בא לגור וישפוט. (oh, who said that?)Cool down. Get to know us. And then… (everyone quick.. close your ears)
I’m starting to stop.
and BTW (buy whichever way you want) Welcome to the CR. Were EVERYONE’s welcome. To Share anything! More of the humorous, fun convo, squabbling and plain chit-chat stuff than the intimate, private, earnest, life decision questions and quandaries normal people would go to professionals for. They’re bound by confidentiality laws etc…. we aren’t. The very nature of this place is for someone to come by read and give chizuk. A lift. A smile. A break from reality….
And mind you, I will not C”V let you accuse RebYidd (whichever gender he is) of being “mevayish chaveiro birabim”… In all time I’ve read her posts I’ve not seen one bordering on L”H, Oonaas Davar, Mevayesh or anything to that extent…. He is one of the nicest to grace our place… I don’t always catch on to what she’s writing, (sometimes it takes long), but it’s one I know is ALWAYS Lashon Hara free.
HURRAY!!!!We’ve finally reached the day where someone says that EVERYTHING I say is read and heeded!!!
This will be FUN!!! Mind you, care to rewind (mine) to 001 (actually I think you’d need 0001, mine go back a loooong way). Plow your way through all of them… every single narishKite and quip…
CR is getting a new twist… the guys busy with the women’s sheitals, tznius.. the girls busy with the men’s choice of color, height…
Me? I wonder what it’s like to be a human…
Sorry I can’t answer you on this one… see – I’m a lowly little froggie…
Actually I was the shortie… I always got my younger brother’s hand-me-downs a year or two later… and I didn’t mind the least!
Just to get mixed into the fry..
The Gemarah in Sanhedrin 112 says “Hair of a righteous woman”, and Rava corrects that as פיאה נכרית. So obviously one can be a righteous woman and wear a פיאה נכרית.
I suggest:
There Is No Such Thing As Coincidence, by Baruch LevVery appropiate – today’s Parsha (about “THE PARSHA”!!!)
לא אוכל עד אם דברתי דבריHe’s gonna make someone change his mind
Coffee Room Froggie!!!
jj2020… You’re not from this area are you?
That was written tongue-in-cheek.. You may not know it… I used to frequent these places far more than I do now. Scratch that.. I used to LIVE HERE (gasp). And every once in awhile the discussion would turn to chumros… and then all of a sudden have half of the gang here shout and clamor about “those Rabbonim” how they “impose” their chumros… etc. etc. and blah blah. And then they would always, without fail, reiterate…”see where the first chumrah took us…”
So I just reversed the charges….
We’re allowed to be more machmir on things than the Torah allows?!?
That’s going on a slippery slope… Chumros?!?!? Y’know… how did Chava….
Do you kill too many bugs. (Do you sing while killing them?!?)
RandomEx.. Just realized this one now.
I’m here… just not posting as often…y’know life B”H has a lot… And also.. sometimes, just sometimes, I get busy… real busy…. I try to retain the upbeat, jovial, happy mood, attitude and atmosphere in real life!!!
What’s that?!?
I was so holding back from commenting on this issue…
My Gadol says I have a right to use the street to walk in. My Gadol says I have a right to use the Reshus Harabim to drive a car. My Gadol says עביד איביש דינא לנפשיה and if anyone is blocking my car from going rightfully… just proceed slowly… (as we pasken בר דעת הוה ליה לברוח). I’m so so disgusted with that mayhem FOR ITS SAKE taking place daily…hurting and affecting thousands of innocents… If we pasken אסור להציל עצמו בממון חבירו, how much more so here when one is making a point to someone or someones בממון חבירו and בממון הרבים. Sorry folks, Gezel Harabim is serious stuff. Dead serious.
And one more point if I may… What is there to hope for in a Bochur who is told to throw off all authority, create havoc and לאז זיך וואול גיין with abandon for a week (+) straight. Is he going to turn out to be a Ben Torah with Middos to match?
I גםמ,א למם’ ‘ישא טםו,רק אשךלןמע שנםוא
I’m sure this is referring to me. However, I must humbly say, there are at least three (make that four, make that five…) things I don’t know.
ZD, the point of Sheraim IS to eat it. And its source is from the Torah:
ועבדתם את יהוה אלהיכם וברך את לחמך ואת מימיך והסרתי מחלה מקרבך
Someone who serves HaShem will have his ‘bread’ blessed, HaShem ‘blesses’ the food, so that והסרתי מחלה מקרבך – it attains some power / segulah to keep sicknesses away.RY!!! Two points for that one!!!
CTL. I’m Chassidic, though not belonging to that particular community. I do belong to a community that’s mostly mainstream… additional focus and attention put on various aspects of Avodas HaShem. (will אי”ה not elaborate…don’t wish to reveal too much). While it is NOT our minhag to do so, and by us it would indeed seem strange, know that these are Minhagim passed on from leaders who were Torah giants, had Torah, Gemarah and Halachah on their fingertips. Hidden Torah and Kabbalah as well. They knew what they were doing. I think one of those is the Rebbe of Sanz, isn’t he the one who runs the Mifal HaShas and accessories? If he expects others to be baki, fluent in the WHOLE Torah, every single part of it, doesn’t it make sense that he does too?
So I’m quite sure if he actually does it, there’s a reason why. And he knows what he’s doing.
What’s exactly going on? Can’t tell you! (I’d have to be a Rebbe… then I couldn’t be blogging away here..) But I could speculate it’s a veiled method for a Chassidic master to send Yeshuos, convey his blessings for his flock.
Who wants to change minds with me?
Just came home!! (4 am)
So…. who was “there”?