Little Froggie

WOW. Seems like someone pressed the SPIN and AGITATE buttons together!!!

LuL: Again. I didn’t read the whole thing, through and through. I did not, and probably will never agree on a personal attack (except..) I didn’t defend you because I didn’t see anyone was ‘attacking’ you, ?? ?????.

LuL:

I don’t think you’re allowed to take something offline just like that. You need a mesorah. You need to follow our Torah greats, out Torah leaders. Deciding for yourself what’s to be taken literally and what’s not is quite dangerous. ??? ????? ?? ????? we don’t make our own inroads…

If you’re following a Mefareah, a Tanna, Amorah, Rishon or Achron etc. it’s authentic. Otherwise it’s dangerous…

If Chazal say she grew a tail.. she grew a tail. Yes.. one that even little I could see. With my own eyes. Unless there’s a Torah giant that says it’s metaphoric, it means as it says. (in this case, grada, I heard/saw it means something of an appendage grew on her) Physical.

Lilmod Ulelamaid – it’s called live and learn… You’ll figure it out… Somethings are learned by experience..

But if you’re not interested in learning.. I’d suggest you stay within boundaries of rules..

I’m feebly attempting to impersonate myself.

LuL:

WOW!! So much English to read!! I really cannot read so much and go through each kasha, terutz, hava amina and maskana. Lately I have come aware of a life outside the CR (GASP!!!)

As to your question, why I changed my mind. I thought it over. While it was true that toeles in itself is not sufficient, I highly doubt this form of conversation ???? constitutes LH or MSR, for the reason I’ve written (the subject being anonymous). But I will bli neder ask a shaaloh.

OK, I’m going to try this once more (and then once more..)

I can’t possibly be saying Lashon Hara (or motzi shem ra, whatever you choose to call it) if I don’t know who I’m talking about. As long as I’m not saying anything derogatory “those people are crazy”, there’s no forbidden speech on saying possible theories why someone did what SOMEONE ELSE said he did. And there’s ABSOLUTELY NOTHING NOT to be mekabel.

The one who knows anything, knows what she knows. She knows the facts. And he’s offering possible reasons. Yes, she’s allowed to believe that Abba_s wrote it. And she’s of course allowed to think along those lines. Is she allowed to take it for certain? a) Why in the world would she? b) What’s the difference to her, she’s moving on in life.

And, in your case too, it’s probably permitted. For the same reasons I stated.

and about your friend’s 14 yr old chiddush – no, your not allowed to think it’s motzi shem ra, because you’re suspecting another Jew. Not being Mekabel means just that. Don’t believe (for certain). Nothing more – noting less. Don’t take it for granted.

(which by rote, these aforementioned cases are ALREADY excluded, as explained)

To sum: There is NO ISSUR on offering theories to the report of another anonymous persons actions, whatsoever.

No, you wouldn’t want to get one down your throat!

GOSH!!!

What a misspelling. #4 should read “Not to exaggerate the sin”

I apologize, I’m at times so careless at my writing…

LuL:

That’s quite a cute “Chiddush” of yours, that someone who is not sure if it’s true or not is automatically being motzi shem ra, even if it turns out it was true. I don’t think that’s the case. If you’re so sure, kindly back it up – I’d like to know.

Abba_S:

L’toeles in itself does not make it permissible, there needs to be 5 – 7 conditions met.

LuL:

Just to indulge in technicalities:

Regarding point #1, he’s probably correct, since neither him nor us know who and what. And as far as the girl who does, well she KNOWS not to believe nor trust someone who cannot possibly know anything.

Point #2 he’s probably also right, technically. He’s saying HE cannot be accused of motzi shem ra if it’s not certain there’s a falsehood. (no, of course he is NOT PERMITTED, but he cannot be ACCUSED of motzi shem ra.)

Point #3 is wrong, as you wrote, as stated openly in the Chofetz Chaim.

I’m doing something about it. Who’s “US” I should notify? (please let us know..)

RY:

I apologize if I hurt your feelings. Sometimes I don’t think properly before posting. Please be Mochel.

So how do you know I’m very also intentionally left blank? This was a secret only a few knew…

??? ??? ????…

A person and his words are one. One’s speech define him/her, describe him/her. It echoes off one’s character.

And the opposite is also true. One who works to refine one’s speech will attain character refinement as well.

That’s not the finger you use to start these (intentionally left blank) threads, is it?

LuL:

Very plain. Because the people wagging their tongues here have no idea who and what they’re talking about. They don’t know any of the subjects here. So obviously THEY are not talking about anyone specific. And the only one who does know, Lavender, knows that anyone else cannot know anything here, so of course she rejects any hogwash offered here!!! Because she’s the only one who DOES know anything.

Suppose I told you “The man you waited with at the bus stop this morning slipped a thirty dollar bill out of you purse while you weren’t looking”. Is that motzi shem ra? (well the mere fact I chose to do so…)

Thank you

Today’s commonly known as “The Day After”

(then the dust settles.. and again..)

Why I put the word “minhag” in quotes? I’m referring to the “minhag” of calling one’s wife “Her na”. I don’t think it’s classifies as a minhag. And I don’t think it should be used in all circumstances, by all people. Some would cringe at hearing themselves addressed so. Others maybe wouldn’t mind. Why would anyone needlessly cause pain, discomfort to his own wife?

Gofish, is your question about throwing apples? While not the Minhag in our community, I understand it quite well. It’s not at all ??? ????? and is the fastest way to get from point A to point B. And btw I don’t think it’s the Rebbes who are throwing, I think it’s the Gabaim.

(how should I know, I only know the regular ksav)

I think Rashi says ‘A woman is for ornaments’, that her husband should buy her jewelry to bedeck herself. Derogatory?!? I’d say lucky her!!! (p.s don’t show this to Frogette… I’m still happily married)

gofish: There’s no DEEP meaning. Plain Rashi suffices. And nothing, nothing whatsoever C”V derogatory about women. At all.

LuL: Yes, I heard about this “minhag” too

About your quandary (why would you be speaking to a friend’s husband?) I think him referring to his wife a “my wife” sets her apart from you, in a subtle way. We wish to remain an Am Kadosh, and we take steps necessary to be ?????? ?????? in any way. This is one way, setting a “boundary” through speech. So even when you must speak to a man, his wife is not “Soshie” but “My Wife”. That sets them apart. So much more so when he’s speaking about her (c”v no lashon hara) to another man.

How you address another man? I guess your method works. I know that sometimes I’m addressed as third person when in the presence of a bunch of girls/women, as a sign of tznius. It rubs me so bad, to me it’s so untznius. (“Would Little Froggie please come over”) Just say “you” – “could you come here?” So plain and simple. Nothing to it!!!

How I wish we could all get along.

HaShem, in His wisdom, made both versions. Both TOGETHER bring something to the table. And make HaShem’s world a better place. Is a man “Better”?!? Is a woman?!? How silly. Anyone who has to keep harping on this topic…. shows ….

And I would suspect that Torah learning, Torah idea, etc, ought to be lishmah, not c”v ?????, to debate, to prove someone’s a fool. That’s not why we learn HaShem’s holy Torah.

Oish!! You don’t have to post my NarishKites all over again…

But I wanted to further comment on my post earlier about bringing Shleimus to the world…

The job of the woman is to be ?? ?? ??, that is the way Adam in his Ruach Hakodesh defined human females. To beget,nurture and bring up children. That is her tafkid in life, doing so attains her Shleimus. Spending hours in davening, learning, deveikus etc. while maybe some sort of good feeling, is not the avodah of a woman. And by marrying and connecting to a true oved HaShem who can soar to great heights – that is they way she attains true Shleimus. Each one brings in his/her specialty, each one serves HaShem in the way He wanted – that is true Shleimus in the world.

Even a couple where the man does not totally dedicate himself for Avodas HaShem 24 hours, still, shleimus for the wife is child care and more home related, whereas for the husband at seeking a livelihood. Today some wives try to juggle both… kol hakavod, by some it’s a necessity.. still a woman’s specialty is her home while a man’s is out making ‘dough’ – ??? ??? ?????. That is the medrash about the woman taking the husband’s wheat and making bread out of it – ????? ??????.

May you meet true zivug b’karov and strive for true shleimus.

Nope. HaSHem hasen’t changed the essence or the makeup of the two different species. I really do NOT want to go into it, I’m really not comfortable getting deep into it. I’ll just state it as thus:

Women by nature tend to crave close relationship. It’s inherent, deep within them. Men by nature do not NEED this connection-relationship, their desire lie elsewhere (not for now).

This is the powerful “glue” HaShem in His wisdom set in motion. When you come to think of it, it almost seems miraculous- why should a women submit herself to a husband (and all it entails), go though childbirth etc.. And why in the world would a happy-go-lucky man want to link himself up with a woman just for some external features or other senseless attributes? It’s these miraculous forces at work. A woman knows she’s forgoing her freedom, ???? ????? ??, nevertheless ??? ??? ?????? she craves this, and does so most willingly. Man knows (most of them at least) what he’s in for by the time he’s ready to step under the Chuppa (unless they did a good job hiding), that’s the ??? ??? ??? ????? because ??? ??? ??? ?????. As Chazal say elsewhere ?? ??? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ?????. All for one cause, to effect a “family”. That’s why we put the pasuk ???? ???? ??? ??? on a Tnaim.

Back to the first point, the deep relationship part, it is was and will be mostly the female’s inyan in the marriage. As I pointed out, that’s why there are all the single female support groups. In general, an unmarried female feels missing something.

Attention all yet unmarried, ??”? ?????!!! Then this whole narishkite won’t be nogea!!