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You are supposed to get drunk to the point of not knowing the difference between cursed is haman and blessed is mordechai (according to many poskim, including my own) Therefore, it takes quite a bit of drunkedness to reach this halachic state.
Please don’t interfere with my religious obligations. Even U.S. law allows MINORS to drink alchol when it is for religious obligations.
SJSinNYC, I am talking about Chareidishe Yidden. You are MO (and by some MO, there is even mixed swimming.) So you are no raya.
By Bnei Torah, talking with the other gender is minimized to the bare possible minimum. And that’s the way it should be.
asdfghjkl, plead what? what wrong was done?
Does anyone have a justification for the regular chatting with the other gender?
gaw, confused. You are patur until you are a tzadik gamur? Sounds like a cop-out. No one is perfect. If you push off observance of something until you reach perfection on everything else, you are essentially saying you don’t wish to observe it – as you’ll never be perfect in everything else.
PM, did you read Reb Moshe’s letter clarifying b’shaas hadchak, copied in Hilchos Kashrus?
Like a few people mentioned, we need to follow the directives of the Gedolim on these (and other) issues.
Jothar,
If you were running this place, what would you do about this situation?
“Chazal say to stay far away from arayos.”
Thats exactly it. Don’t expect every situation to be written. Chazal say stay far away.
The bakery comparison is a fig leaf. That is a necessity. This is not.
And lets face it. Most people here have identified their gender, marital status, and even roughly their age. In fact, there was a whole thread once dedicated to posters background information.
We miss syriansephardi.
Will Hill: ROTFL!!!
Jothar: Why did they stop doing that? Should we do the same today?
I agree with Will Hill. We have to follow Shulchan Aruch whether we like it or not and whether we understand it or not.
I think there are so many good guys and so few good girls.
That’s why some people believe that the guys have a list of 100 girls, while the girls are begging to get just one name.
the guy took her to the wax museum and they decided to do the mini haunted house they have there. so my sisters like sure why not im not a lil kid anymore i wont be scared…
theyre walking and its nice and scary but in a kiddy kind of way until they get to a tiny room enough to hold maybe 5 ppl seriously and theres a wax figure standing there.
my sister goes right up to it, inches away, and says, wow it looks so real!!
well, it was real, and the guy jumoed out at her and without even thinking, she grabbed her date and just held on for a few seconds…he was shocked for a few seconds until my sister realized what she was doing and pushed him away…..they had a good laugh over that…
Bais Yaakov maydel:
You’re story may come across as funny, but you must be sensitive to the fact that what occurred was an Aveira B’Shogeg of Shomer Negiah. Of course it was a mistake and they had charota, but this story should not be related publicly as some sort of kosher funny thing as it is an avera (b’shogeg).
Imagine if they c’v had by mistake gone to a treif restaurant (they thought it was a kosher one or thought it was another restaurant a block away that is kosher), and only realized it after eating a few pieces of treif meat. Would they be joking about how good the treif meat at Tony’s Steakhouse was or how much kavana they had when they made a brocho?? One would hope not. They would be embarrassed about it, and not joke about it.
berlin:
Did you bother reading the Gedolim quotes on the first page of this thread? Did you bother reading what Rabbi Hutner ztl and Rabbi Miller ztl and others have said about the zionists war-time treachery and murder?
Did you bother to read what Judge Halevi and Rudolf Vrba said about the zionist Kasztner?
These are a few, out of an ocean, of examples.
The opening the door for the girl (specifically) comes straight out of the goyish playbook. It is assur for both Chukas Hagoyim AND tznius. (Tznius is especially an issue by a car.)
JayMatt: Assuming that came from Rav Gifter, what the Rav is stating is to mentchlich, not “chivalrous”. If there is inclimate weather or something, of course one must be mentchlich and help the other person if necessary.
But assuming a normal situation with a healthy individual (not involving one party carrying heavy luggage), there is no more reason for a guy to open a door for a woman, than for a woman to open the door for a guy. In fact now that I am reading the first post with the meforshim it quoted, I believe it is correct al pi din for a woman to open the door for the man to go first.
oomis1105: It is RASHI who stated that it is unbecoming for a husband to walk behind his wife. (Walking behind a woman other than ones wife, is outright assur.) You have no standing to dispute Rashi.
kiruvwife: There is no more reason a bochor on a date should open (or especially close) a car door for the girl, than there is for the girl to do so for the bochor. THIS idea comes straight from the gentiles and has no basis in kedushas yisroel.
cantoresq: I don’t know all the background of the situation you describe, but it is appropriate for a wife to stand up for her husband, rather than vice versa.
So again; the idea of chivalry is “woman first.” This is incorrect from the Torah standpoint. In fact the Torah says men should go first. This fact does not negate the absolute necessity to be mentchlich at ALL times.
SJS:
I think you still missed Rabbi Avigdor Miller’s point. You said that Kastner was a collaborator and despicable but you question whether other zionist leaders are. The answer is an unequivocal yes. Kastner was, as pointed out, just an example of the atrocities committed by the zionists prior to statehood. There are so many others. Did you also read Rabbi Hutner’s description (in addition to Rabbi Miller’s) earlier in the thread of their activities during that time frame?
What you are asking, to put it in other terms, is if the Nazi’s (yms) are really all bad, since there were some exceptions where individual Nazi’s actually saved Jews. The answer there too is an unequivocal yes, you can clearly state that the Nazi’s were bad. Same with the zionists.
cantoresq:
Trying to shut up discussion by calling all who you disagree with you fanatics is comical. Effectively YOU are engaged in ideological fanaticism. The truth is a very powerful thing, and it hurts those opposed to it. The ostrich buries its head in the sand. You can close your ears and heart to it, but the truth it remains.
Jothar:
Good joke!
BTW Its good you stressed that reminder after someone tried to portray your views as something other than what you stated.
gaw, stop cheppening with lesschumras. Anything he doesn’t like or want to do is hence a chumra.
oomis, it is a good and appropriate thing to encourage people not to use Kulahs, where unnecessary.
Oy, where would we be without the Gedolim?
tentwenty30, re: mekor for needing hats, etc.
Hilchos Tefiloh, siman 91, (megulah)
sk 4, mb 12
the mishne berureh is in s’u orach chaim 91 seuf katen 12
S’O Orach Chaim Hilchos Tefiloh, siman 91, sk 12 (megulah) [sk 4, mb 12 ?]
Mishnah Berurah 8:4, citing the Ba”ch, requires two head coverings. (Shulchan Aruch O”Ch 282:2)
tentwenty30, re: mekor for needing hats, etc.
Hilchos Tefiloh, siman 91, (megulah)
sk 4, mb 12
the mishne berureh is in s’u orach chaim 91 seuf katen 12
S’O Orach Chaim Hilchos Tefiloh, siman 91, sk 12 (megulah) [sk 4, mb 12 ?]
Mishnah Berurah 8:4, citing the Ba”ch, requires two head coverings. (Shulchan Aruch O”Ch 282:2)
squeak, administrator?? I do believe the internet issue was determined and announced by Gedolei Yisroel at various asifas. Not some maveric.
squeak,
It is too dangerous for our children’s neshamas to wait to we find out if the internet spiritually killed them. We must act now, not when the issue is “fully ironed out.”
Eighteen is the age given for marriage in Pirkei Avos. For many reasons, 18 is a very practical age – by then a man has had an opportunity to learn a large amount of Torah. He is expected to be mature enough to support a family. The Gemora (Kiddushin 29b) says that from a perspective of guarding against sin, 16 is better and 14 is better yet. The Shulchan Aruch (Even HaEzer 1:3) says that the best way to perform the mitzvah of marriage is to get married at age 13.
The halachic deadline is age 20. If a man has not gotten married by age 20, the Gemora says that all of his days he will have sinful thoughts. A man who did not get married by age 20 is supposed to be beaten by the Beis Din until he agrees to get married. This is the halacha in Shulchan Aruch (Even HaEzer 1:3), though the Rama says that the custom nowadays is not to force people to get married. In any case, if he hasn’t gotten married by age 20, he should get married as soon as possible.
The Chachomim of the Gemora understood the nature of man and his drives very well. They suggested that a man should get married at 18, and that for protection against improper sexual urges, younger would be better. They said that putting off marriage to later than 20 would permanently warp his personality.
Today in Jewish society, it is unusual for a man to get married as young as 18, and most don’t even get married by 20, and it is almost unheard of for a man to get married younger than 18.
Recently, at the United Nations General Assembly a representative from Israel began: “Before beginning my talk I want to tell you something about Moses. When he struck the rock and it brought forth water, he thought, ‘What a good opportunity to have a bath!’
He removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock and entered the water.
When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished. A
Palestinian had stolen them.”
The Palestinian representative jumped up furiously and shouted, “What
are you talking about? The Palestinians weren’t there then.”
The Israeli representative smiled and said –
“And now that we have made that clear, I will begin my speech.”
The three Goldberg brothers, Norman, Hiram, and Max, invented and developed the first automobile air conditioner.
On July 17, 1946, the temperature in Detroit was 97 degrees. The three brothers walked into old man Henry Ford’s office and sweet-talked his secretary into telling him that three gentlemen were there with the most exciting innovation in the auto industry since the electric starter.
Henry was curious and invited them into his office. They refused and instead asked that he come out to the parking lot to their car.
They persuaded him to get into the car, in which it was about 130 degrees. They then turned on the air conditioner and cooled the car off immediately. The old man got very excited and invited them back to his office, where he offered them $3 million for the patent.
The brothers refused, saying they would settle for $2 million, but they wanted the recognition by having a label, “The Goldberg Air-Conditioner,” on the dashboard of each car that it was installed in.
Now, old man Ford was more than just a little anti-Semitic, and there was no way he was going to put the Goldbergs’ name on two million Fords.
They haggled back and forth for about two hours and finally agreed on $4 million, and that just their first names would be shown.
And so to this day, all Ford air conditioners show Norm, Hi, and Max on the dashboard.
A newlywed farmer and his wife were visited by her mother, who immediately demanded an inspection of the place. While they were walking through the barn, the farmer’s mule suddenly reared up and kicked the mother-in-law in the head, killing her instantly.
At the funeral service a few days later, the farmer stood near the casket and greeted folks as they walked by. The pastor noticed that whenever a woman would whisper something to the farmer, he would nod his head “yes” and say something. Whenever a man walked by and whispered to the farmer, he would shake his head “no” and mumble a reply.
Curious, the pastor later asked the farmer what that was all about. The farmer replied, “The women would say, ‘What a terrible tragedy,’ and I would nod my head and say, ‘Yes, it was.’ The men would ask, ‘You wanna sell that mule?’ and I would shake my head and say, ‘Can’t. It’s all booked up for a year.'”
josh, i’m not sure where you’re trying to go with that, but that is as nonsensical as going to your nearest mo leader and telling him you want to form a committee to attack all women who don’t utilize mixed swimming pools. that scenerio and the one you described are as equally unlikely either to be suggested or to be practiced. actually you’re scenario is far more unlikely. what you describe at best sounds like the type of story peddled by anti-semitic rags of the nature of haaretz and ynet when they are seeking an avenue to attack chareidim. it can’t even be described as an exaggeration, as it doesn’t happen anywhere but in their hate-filled minds.
josh, you are correct about that in the sense that “if it were not for YU, there would be tens of thousands that would be lost to Torah Judaism” in that many of those Yidden would not be frum at all, and YU is a much better alternative to being frei. Where you are not correct is that halacha itself requires that halacha be enforced. I don’t know whatever gave you the idea that “there is widespread agreement in Orthodox Jewish circles” otherwise. As I said, halacha itself requires that it be enforced. I have no idea what you mean “those who adopt extreme levels” but kol hakovod to those that adapt extreme levels of tznius for themselves. May many more do so as well. Those who are on the madreiga on maintaining extreme levels of tznius are a zchus and an encouragement for the rest of us. More power to them and may we all pick up a little bit from them. It is an aveira gamur when people mock those who adapt chumros. I am tired of those in the mo crowd (and there is no other way to put it) that say there is too many chumras, etc.
jphone: I don’t think anyone can fake the kind of evilness displayed in yossiea’s comments.
And besides, the mods are rather vigilant in disallowing socks puppets.
brklyn19, r u trying to say “like mother, like daughter”?
can’t figure whats the joke either.
bored, you ARE spoiled… they must have your picture in the dictionary next to spoiled 🙂
Btw, did you say you work 8 hours a week and are bored at work?
Unleash Israel and Win Peace
Dec. 6, 2001
WSJ Op-Ed by Rush Limbaugh
The only way some form of quiet will ever exist in the Middle East is if Israel is given the latitude to totally defeat its declared enemies. Only then will the terrorist attacks on Israel’s civilians come to an end. Perpetual negotiations, diplomatic half measures, or land for peace deals will not bring peace to the Middle East. For those who believe this is an irresponsible notion, I use history as my guide.
Today marks the 60th anniversary of Imperial Japan’s unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor, in which 2,500 Americans were killed. There are lessons to be learned from our victory in that war. In his April 16, 1945 address before a Joint Session of Congress, President Harry Truman stated: “So there can be no possible misunderstanding, both Germany and Japan can be certain, beyond any shadow of doubt, that America will continue the fight for freedom until no vestige of resistance remains. We are deeply conscious of the fact that much hard fighting is still ahead of us. Having to pay such a heavy price to make complete victory certain, America will never become a party to any plan for partial victory. To settle for merely another temporary respite would surely jeopardize the future security of the world. Our demand has been, and it remains, unconditional surrender.”
On August 6, 1945, just 16-hours after the United States dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Japan, Truman issued a statement which said, in part: “The Japanese began the war from the air at Pearl Harbor. They have been repaid many fold… We are now prepared to obliterate more rapidly and completely every productive enterprise the Japanese have above ground in any city. We shall destroy their docks, their factories, and their communications. Let there be no mistake: we shall completely destroy Japan’s power to make war.”
Truman understood that there could be no peace without total victory. This lesson has not been lost on President George Bush. On September 20, 2001, Bush also addressed a Joint Session of Congress and announced America’s policy — “the Bush Doctrine” — in responding to the atrocities of September 11. He stated: “…Our war on terror begins with al Qaeda, but it does not end there. It will not end until every terrorist group of global reach has been found, stopped and defeated.”
Bush stated further: “…We will starve terrorists of funding, turn them one against another, drive them from place to place, until there is no refuge or no rest. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.”
Since September 11, Bush has refused all offers by the Taliban regime to negotiate any settlement of the war — including the status of Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants in the al Qaeda terrorist network — short of outright surrender. As Bush once eloquently put it: bin Laden is “wanted, dead or alive.” And for over two months, the U.S. has been systematically bombing the Taliban and al Qaeda day and night. Already, the Bush administration is planning the next phase of the war, which may involve U.S. military action in Iraq, Somalia and elsewhere.
So, in the two most recent examples of the U.S. being attacked on its own territory, America’s predicate for peace has been the total annihilation of its enemies. And there is every reason to expect Israel’s Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to have learned the same lesson.
Since 1948, Israel has been forced to fight 4 wars with the hostile nations surrounding her. Despite defeating her enemies on the battlefield, the international community has never permitted Israel to completely destroy any of these regimes — none of which are democracies. They’ve always been left largely in tact, free to start or support another war, including the current terrorist war now being waged against Israel’s citizens. And between wars, Israel’s enemies have convinced the world, including the U.S., that her borders and security are not only legitimate subjects of constant negotiations, but that Israel’s refusal to accept most, if not all, of her enemies’ demands is an obstacle to peace.
This week Hamas and other terrorist groups — which, like certain of the countries that surround Israel, seek the destruction of Israel, not co-existence or even the establishment of a Palestinian state — intensified their war against the Jewish state by unleashing 5 fanatic suicide bombers against innocent civilians, mostly children. The result: hundreds of casualties, including 26 dead. In the past 14 months, more than 230 Israelis have been killed — the proportional equivalent to the U.S. losing some 11,000 people.
In addition to Hamas, which receives support from Palestinian expatriates, wealthy Saudi Arabians, and Iran, Israel is under attack from, among others, Hizballah, which is supported by Syria and Iran, and Islamic Jihad, which is backed by Iran, Sudan and militant Islamic groups.
On December 4, in an address to his nation, Sharon stated: “…A war has been forced upon us. A war of terror. A war that claims innocent victims daily. A war of terror being conducted systematically, in an organized fashion, and with methodical direction… We will pursue those responsible, the perpetrators of terrorism and the supporters. We will pursue them until we catch them, and they will pay a price.”
Ironically, the major obstacle to Sharon implementing the Bush Doctrine has been U.S. Middle East policy. When attacked by terrorists, Israel has been urged to show “restraint,” to make more negotiated concessions and even accept the creation of a hostile Palestinian state on its border. This week’s carnage appears to have caused some positive change in America’s rhetoric and position. The president has now pointed the finger of responsibility directly at Yassar Arafat for ending the terrorism committed by his people. But accomplishing peace requires more — much more.
Truman was right to insist that peace would only be realized after the “obliteration” of the Japanese war machine, just as Bush is right about “defeating” the Taliban, al Qaeda and other terrorist networks. It is, therefore, necessary that in the pursuit of real and lasting peace, Israel also be free to destroy its enemies — meaning the terrorists and, yes, their sponsors, who are at war with her, and that she do so before they obtain devastating weapons of mass destruction.
(an op-ed by Rush Limbaugh, originally published on Dec. 6, 2001)
000646: Yes, indeed there are. R’ Miller has more followers than you could ever count.
yossiea: you are a rusha; anyone that talks about the Gedolim like that, is sure to end up in gehenim.
Rav Samson Raphael Hirsch is the antithesis of the MO.
What dd posted is quite vile. How that rant made it, is the question. He is the antithesis of Torah-true Jew. I hope he doesn’t represent the typical mo man on the street; but I think he does.
America, Israel and Poland are sending up a two year shuttle mission with one astronaut from each country. Since it’s going to be two years up there, each may take any form of entertainment weighing 150 pound or less. The American approaches the NASA board and asks to take his 100 lb. TV and lounge chair. They approve.
The Israeli astronaut says, “I’ve always wanted to learn Shas. I want the 150 lb. Artscroll Shas to learn with.” The NASA board approves.
The Polish astronaut thinks for a second and says, “It’s gonna be two years up there. I want 150 pounds of the best Cuban cigars ever made.” Again, NASA okays it.
Two years later, the shuttle lands and everyone is gathered outside the shuttle to see what each astronaut got out of his personal entertainment. The American steps out and begins discussing major sporting events from the last two years. The crowd cheers. The Israeli astronaut steps out and makes a 10 minute drosho in absolutely perfect aramaic. The crowd doesn’t understand a word of it, but they’re impressed and they cheer.
The Polish astronaut stomps out, clenches the podium until his knuckles turn white, glares at the first row waving a chewed up cigar at them and says:
“Anybody got a match?”
******
A German walks onto a bus with a duck on his head and sits down next to a chasid.
The chasid asks “Where’d you get the pig?”
The German replied “It’s not a pig, it’s a duck.”
Said the chasid, “I was talking to the duck.”
(I thought I saw these here, but can’t find ’em.)
ilini07 – You are a Rasha. I’ve never seen anyone besmirch a tzaddik like you.
its absolutely hilarious how hes unable to give a single name of a rabbi in all the world and still tries to avoid an answer!
anon:
Even with the minority of carriers that provide that detail, it is not complete. If the caller blocked their phone #, in the majority of times the number will not appear on the itemized statement. Have you never seen an incoming call on your bill that lacked a number? I don’t think you – or anyone – can make such a claim. (And this is in addition to the ingenuity of the youth I alluded to previously, that will enable them to take counter measures to even normal blocking and itemization.)
asdfghjkl:
What is a “sponsor”? And what does your sponsor do?
mw13, Kids are naturally versatile, intuitive, astute, and clever. They WILL find ways around “blocks”. They can even find ways around their activity appearing on the monthly detail section. Trust me, it can be done, it has been done, and it will be done.
And this is aside from the dangers involved from unfettered VOICE ONLY access. Surely you are not oblivious that unfettered access to RECEIVE (which are not detailed on the bill where it originated from) voice calls can be catastrophic?
You are playing with fire. People HAVE gotten burnt, and worse…
Next Random Question:
What was the conflict between America and Briton that triggered the War of 1812?
What suraschier wrote in the original post of this thread, is so true and relevant for every one of us.
mw13, au contraire. I’ve heard way too many horror stories of what happened to innocent children whose parents foolishly let roam with a cell phone. I shudder to even think of the details.
I was wondering… who else around here waits (besides dont have internet) for the coffee room to be updated everytime?
mdlevine, Is the project for both men and women? tizku lmitzvos