ujm

MadeOf: Struggling doesn’t necessarily define one as OTD or, even, at-risk.

I don’t know the numbers, but from what I’ve heard from multiple sources is that the vast majority of Lubavitchers believe that the last Lubavitcher Rebbe will return as Moshiach.

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I wonder if girls are less likely than boys to go OTD or become at-risk.

Yichusdik: Close to half the DL/RZ soldiers who entered the IDF religious are irreligious by time they’re discharged.

Absolutely treif.

somejewiknow: Yasher Koach for explaining it so well.

“why can’t we have all the mitzvos and still have separate jobs?”

Kohanim and Leviim (even b’chors and other categories) have different Mitzvos than others. There’s no reason why men and women shouldn’t, also, have different Mitzvos.

Yisroelim shouldn’t be saddened over the fact that they don’t have the same greater responsibilities and Mitzvos as Kohanim, and women shouldn’t be saddened over the fact that they don’t have the same greater responsibilities and Mitzvos as men.

I will add a side point in that I believe the fact that this bothered you, more than a Yisroel is bothered that a Kohain has greater responsibilities, obligations, Mitzvos and receives more Kovod (honors) than himself, is primarily due to the negative influences on the world (over the last 100 or so years) from the terrible feminist/women’s liberation movement. It affects people without realizing it, even those who think they’ve been immune to it.

Your reply to me failed to address any of my substantive points.

But you did throw in the angle of non-learning Chareidim, which your OP didn’t inquire about and therefore wasn’t previously addressed.

There are many reasons even non-working Chareidim cannot and should not join the Zionist Army. Some of those reasons include such soldiers, when discharged, are no longer the same Ehrlich Yid he was when he went in. Another is the rampant pritzus in that army.

Menachem:

“החפץ חיים בהלכות לשון הרע כלל ח’ סעיף ה’ – אומר: “אותם האנשים שמכירם שיש בהם אפיקורסות מצווה לגנותם ולבזותם בין בפניהם ובין שלא בפניהם”.

ובהמשך- “אפיקורוס נקרא הכופר בתורה… ואפילו הוא אומר כל התורה כולה מן השמים חוץ מפסוק אחד…”

The Chofetz Chaim says the above. Idol worshippers are apikorsom. You are bringing stories from Tanach to reach your own conclusion to disagree with the Chofetz Chaim? Or are you being misunderstood? Where in Shulchan Aruch does it say it is ever prohibited to condemn, mock or despise idol worshippers?

In your understanding, when would the above quoted halacha from the Chofetz Chaim apply? And when would it not apply, if ever?

Simcha: This is clearly the point and argument that resonates with you, that you chose to respond to it in its own thread. The reason this is the one you respond to particularly, as such, is because of how strong this point is.

1. The primary reason this bothers me is

that one has nothing to do with the other.

It has everything to do with each other, insofar as this nonsensical argument goes that Yeshivaleit need to “share the burden” of joining the zionist army is concerned.

Should people be learning more Torah? Of course!

But that doesn’t address the issue of whether Charedim should be sharing the physical defense burden.

Sure it does. As pointed out in my (non-attributed) quoted comments in your above OP, in in order for Bnei Yeshiva to so-called “share the burden” by becoming professional soldiers, by defition, they’ll need to leave the Yeshiva and learn much less Torah.

Limud Torah is, by far, the greatest protection that anyone can provide to Klal Yisroel. Reducing Limud Torah, reduces the protection of Klal Yisroel. Telling Bnei Torah to leave the Yeshiva and learn less so they can enlist in the army, means less Torah and less protection for Klal Yisroel.

Following the very simple logic?

1+1=2

The fact of the matter is that Klal Yisroel already has too little Torah being learnt. Such a tiny tiny percentage of Jews engage in Limud Torah. Of that tiny percentage, an even tinier percentage engage in Limud Torah full time. And they are the ones you want to drag away from the Gemora to shmad, er enlist, in your army? They are the ones MOST protecting Klal Yisroel. Take that away and *your* protection disappears.

And on top of all of the above, your army isn’t short soldiers. Your army isn’t losing battles and wars due to a shortage of enlisted servicement. Hamas and Hezbollah aren’t scoring successes due to Chareidim not being enlisted. What you are demanding with “sharing the burden” is that Charieidm enlist so that your daughter (who shouldn’t be in any army in the first place) and her male friend soldiers can take more furlough and breaks and go back to their jobs and employment, with the Charieidm who were dragged out of the Yeshivos and forcibly enlisted taking over so that the others can go home.

Are you so blind to understand the above logic results in losing protection, losing battles and wars (the shooting and bombing kind) because less Yidden are learning Torah, and those that are learning are learning less Torah?

And, absolutely yes, if more non-Charieidi Jews, including Chilonim and including others who don’t learn Torah at all or don’t learn full time or don’t learn enough, started learning more Torah, Klal Yisroel would be more protected than we are with, as it is, only those few fill time learners doing the burden if Limud Torah.

And then there would be *more* protection of Klal Yisroel by Hashem, less wars, less deaths and less injuries.

A win-win, if there ever was one.

America never had a more pro-Israel president than Donald J. Trump.

Never heard of this on any widespread basis. Is this happening in some basement somewhere?

Mods: Can you please move this thread to Decaffeinated? Thanks

Some people here have a chip on their shoulder requiring them to find fault with anyone too religious for their likings.

Trump must step up, and fix America, not step down.

Menachem: I’m not sure what you’re objecting to. I simply quoted the Chofetz Chaim verbatim. Are you disagreeing with the Chofetz Chaim? If so, is it your own personal disagreement or do you have an opposing death of equal stature of the Chofetz Chaim?

The Chofetz Chaim is telling us we must identify reshoyim and kofrim, in order to treat them as the Chofetz Chaim prescribes in his above quotations.

The Donald is very happily and eagerly Moser Nefesh of himself for the United States of America and the great American people.

The POTUS controls US foreign policy. So, certainly, as President he’ll have a great deal of control over Israel policy.