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No one is bothered by people who have SSA but never act upon that attraction, never advertise that attraction, never publicly discuss that attraction. The idea that anyone holds anything against anyone else who has SSA is a fig leaf, red herring and strawman.
The issue, and only issue, is those who any upon said attraction. Or parade it. Or try to normalize it.
Do not forget that some of the founders of the Conservative Jewish Theological Seminary were also the founders of the MO Orthodox Union. The idea that those on or between the borderlines of Torah Judaism flirting with the other side of the border eventually go over the border, first tippy-toe but eventually full throttle, has proven itself throughout Jewish history.
Neville: Population statistics wise there are more Chasidim than all non-Chasidish frum combined. This is even true individually in the United States, in Israel and in Europe. Twenty five years ago this wasn’t the case. But mainly as a result of the comparatively much larger Chasidish birth rate, at this time the stats are what they are.
Even Lakewood is becoming more and more Chasidish. (Certainlly not a majority in Lakewood — yet.) And I don’t mean BMG bochorim who “shtam” from Hungarian type families. I’m referring to actual Shtreimal wearing Yidden.
“All “Litvishe” today are either full blooded Hungarians, Romanians, Yekkes or a mix. Almost all minus the Yekkes and Oberlanders shtam from Chassidim. They just learned in “Litvish” yeshivos.
But real blue blooded “Litivise” barely exist. Same with the Poilisher. Almost the whole Ger Chassidus hails from Hungary etc.”
The Yekkes seem to have almost/mostly disappeared over the last 35 years. You barely see any Yekke bochorim wearing a Talis, whereas in ’80s and even in the ’90s you saw a lot of them in shuls all over the place. They seem to have mostly merged into the Litvish/Yeshivish world.
As far as Oberlanders, a huge portion (perhaps most) of prewar Hungarian Yidden WERE Oberlander. Over the last 35 years a huge portion (most?) Oberlanders started identifying as Chasidish. Look at Vien (where their Williamsburg Beis Medrash switched from Nusach Ashkenaz to Nusach Sefard just in the last 15 years or so) where their Rov now is referred to as a Rebbe and wears a Shtreimal, as do the vast majority of Vieners. Also look at Matersdorf/Yeshiva Ch’san Sofer. But a significant portion of Oberlanders also started identifying as Litvish. There are still a few who still identify as Oberlanders proper.
Christie is a social liberal. And Christie has zero chance.
Keep in mind that the first toeiva is a capital crime where the perpetrator is put to death, whereas the second toeiva the perpetrator has to pay a monetary fine to his victim.
“what is the difference between a ketuba and a prenup?”
The first came from Chazal. The latter came from idiots.
*sigh*. HaGaon HaRav Elya Svei ztvk’l answered the OP decades ago.
Speech from HaRav Elya Svei:
It says further, in Targum Yonoson, that one should not be a false witness. I want to stop here. In public life here in Brooklyn, there is false testimony. We have merited, through blood and sweat and with the Almighty’s help, to establish large Yeshivos for the boys and Bais Yaakovs for the girls. And these schools produced students of whom all can be proud. But then someone comes and says that they are still incomplete. When the boys go out of the Yeshiva, they are still not finished — they still need more studies: they still have to go to “Touro College” to be well-rounded. That is the biggest false testimony against the Torah. The boys do not need such “completeness”.
One is not allowed to be friends with them! One is not allowed to be partners with them! What will be with our children? From where will our great Torah leaders come? From Touro College they will not come! And mothers of Gedolei Torah will also not come from Touro College, because the Gemorah says that to merit children who will become Gedolei Yisroel, one has to have modesty. And modesty cannot be acquired in Touro College!
Simcha: Cholov Yisroel is NOT a Chumra. Cholov Stam is a Kula. (Even the poskim that permit use of this Kula acknowledge that it is a Kula.) And not all poskim hold it is a valid Kula. In which case, to them, Cholov Stam is Cholov Akum and thus unkosher. If they hold it isn’t a valid Kula, they are prohibited from even facilitating or helping another Jew obtain Cholov Stam, even if the other fellow does use the Kula.
Your comparison to Beis Hillel/Beis Shammai is mistaken. A more apt comparison would be the MO Jew telling a Chareidi that you cannot eat the food from my home since my keilim were used to make Cholov Stam food and/or I used my pots and pans, dishes and utensils with food products using hechsheirim that you hold isn’t acceptable. Therefore I’ll feed you with prepackaged food with a heimishe hechsher and I’ll serve it to you on paper good and plastic utensils.
Beis Shammai certainly would not loan Beis Hillel keilim that Beis Shammai held is tamei since a) they wouldn’t keep such keilim and b) even if they had it, they hold it is tamei so they are prohibited to facilitate another Jew using it.
AAQ: Yet a Yid who doesn’t eat Cholov Akum cannot give it to a Jew who eats Cholov Stam, since according to the poskim who forbid it, and who he holds by, halachicly deem it to be Cholov Akum/treif, as they do not subscribe to the Kula of Cholov Stam.
DaMoshe: Yeshivish people do not demand the MO stop having mixed seating. But do not expect Yeshivish or Chasidish friends or family to attend your weddings if it is mixed seating. They do not have to, should not and will not, compromise their “chumra” to make you happy.
And don’t expect them to eat from your house, with your cholov stam and hechsheirim they do not rely on. Or come into your neighborhood where the women are running around in short skirts and shirts. Or attend your shiurim where your rabbis preach wrongheaded hashkofos.
And the fellow who threw out the Hershey’s chocolate holds it is treif, per the psak of his posek. So he cannot give it to someone else, even if the other fellow holds otherwise. It isn’t a chumra. It is halacha, even if you disagree.
huju: If it was Trump against Pol Pot, would that be enough for you to switch your vote to Trump?
Yes. The Living Torah Museum in Boro Park.
There’s an old concept of a parent telling a child “no”.
Even if it has gone out of style in America.
N0m: Only a tiny percentage of the Yeshivish/Chasidish population switched to MO. Whereas there is a huge percentage of MO who now identify with the Yeshivish community. As I mentioned, in virtually every Yeshivish Shul, Yeshiva and minyanim you’ll find very many former MO people. You do not find a significant population of former Yeshivish/Chasidish in MO schools or shuls. (And if you want to consider the OTD rate, the MO OTD rate is more than 10 times higher proportionally than the Yeshivish/Chasidish OTD rate.)
As far as your point that many MO people openly violate Halacha but, you claim, that by Yeshivish/Chasidish some publicly adhere to the Mitzvos, but when in private don’t, there’s two pertienent points:
1. You have no basis to claim that there’s any statistically significant percentage who publicly are frum but when no one is looking aren’t.
2. It is far far better a person be publicly Mitzvah adherent, even if in private he isn’t, than for a person to simply disregard Mitzvos even in public and openly and shamelessly violate the Torah.
DaMoshe:
“The vast majority of students don’t have relationships with the opposite gender.”
The elementary/high school you send to is the minority of RWMO. The large majority of MO students go to LWMO schools, where the schools are co-ed and the large majority of students have cross-gender friendships and/or boy/girlfriends. Especially starting in high school and even more especially after graduating high school.
Additionally, in Yeshivish, Lakewood and Chasidish schools, having a boy/girlfriend is virtually non-existent.
“We’ve had times where the Rebbetzin went over to someone to ask her to walk out until she changed, or covered up a bit. We’ve had divorced women who no longer wanted to cover their hair who were told that’s not allowed in the shul.”
You see, even in your RWMO shul you have this problem. Forget about what goes on in LWMO shuls, which constitute the large majority of where self-identified MO people daven. (Assuming they even go to shul; MO rabbis have been widely reporting over the last few years that a very significant percentage of young MO adults no longer come to shul.)
In Yeshivish/Lakewood/Chasidish shuls, it is virtually unheard of that women need to be told to “cover up” or go home and change. Or for divorced women to have the audacity to come with their hair uncovered, for that matter.
“R’ Moshe held it only needed to be 5 feet tall.”
Wrong. Rav Moshe held, B’DIEVED, it must be at least 18 tefachim (66″). And Rav Moshe writes that the mechitza is D’Oraisa. Rav Moshe writes that one is obligated to protest with all his might against a mechitza which is less than 18 tefachim. It’s assur to daven there, even if you won’t otherwise be able to daven with any minyan.
The large majority of those who self-define themselves as Modern Orthodox are left-wing Modern Orthodox (LWMO). The right-wing Modern Orthodox (RWMO), those who fully follow, subscribe to and live the positions of R. Willig and R. Schachter, are a very small minority of the MO world.
Walk into any Yeshivish Shul or Yeshiva or minyan and you’ll find lots of former MO people. Those MO who aren’t left-wing have mostly left the MO world and now associate with the Yeshivish world.
New Square
The US Passport office (in Manhattan and other cities) can issue it immediately or within a few days.
Go to the passport office.
VBL: Any thoughts on my most recent comment to you?
HaLeiVi: Israeli Nationalism is the Zionism of today that is the ideology and movement claiming to supplant Yiddishkeit, and capturing people’s imagination, much the same way as pre-State Zionism.
Five times the same ingredients you’d use if making for a crowd of 10.
Dorah: Were the fakes of Trump and Schumer realistic enough that an average intelligent person (not up to speed regarding AI) would likely think the videos were real?
VBL: If someone lives in a warzone (1914 Europe, 1938 Europe, 1948 Palestine, 1967 Israel, etc) he shouldn’t worry? He can worry and due to his worrying daven intensely.
AI, of course, doesn’t rise to the level of war. In fact, I don’t think there’s what to worry about regarding AI that some of the experts are warning about. But in principle, why shouldn’t people worry about general dangers, if warranted?
HaLeiVi: You could, more or less, rewrite your comment to be about the Reform (instead of Zionism.)
VBL: Of course the answer is Hashem. As we must daven to Hashem to protect us. But is that a reason not to be worried (as you concluded in your OP)?
DM: “The rulers of the area agreed to the land being a Jewish homeland.”
That is inaccurate. The United Kingdom abstained in the vote in the UN General Assembly in November 1947 for the Partition Plan for Palestine, which included a proposal for the establishment of a Jewish State in a part of the British Mandate territory.
Furthermore, the Israelis took more land than was even offered.
Ray K: Agreed. But that point is dead obvious. You’d think it was self-explanatory and hardly needed to be pointed out. Which is why it is perplexing that some otherwise intelligent computer scientists are seriously worried that AGI will destroy (as in physically kill) humanity.
VBL: Yes, that’s what I was addressing.
Note that there’s a difference between “computers take over the world” (and “and I’m not worried about AI”), that you said in your OP, and “artificial general intelligence could lead to an artificial intelligence catastrophe.” A catastrophe is possible short of AI taking over the world and even granting that Hashem runs the world.
Participant: You need to type your new password twice and they must match.
A good number, though certainly not a majority, of AI technologists believe that the development of AGI will lead to the technology operating independently from any human intervention, which can pose a lethal threat to humans. Within those who subscribe to that notion, there’s a sub-debate how rapidly such capabilities will start appearing in the marketplace. Some think within a few short years while others think it’s decades away.
Unless someone had been paying very close attention to the very recent rapid advancement in AI technology and capabilities, one would not be aware that it has progressed to the point that today the top AI programmers who are creating these newly released technologies themselves are surprised by its capabilities and themselves do not fully understand how their AI creations obtained many of its abilities.
The industry is anticipating that in the future, possibly near future, they will release what is called AGI — Artificial General Intelligence.
In 1938, in Los Angeles, the Kossoner Rebbe, Rav Moshe Shmuel Rottenberg (who had previously been Rebbe in the Kloiz in Kisvarda) made a Lag B’Omer bonfire. I saw an image of the invitation to it. The invitation also referenced that he did it the previous year, so this wasn’t his first year doing it in Los Angeles.
The Kossoner moved to America in the 1930s, at which point the Salkaver Rov from Tiszaszalka, Rav Roth, took over his position in the Kloiz in Kisvarda.
ames was a terrific member with tons of excellent posts. It was really sad for it to all be removed. She requested it be deleted because of a silly worry.
CA: An old timer poster “ames” managed to delete virtually all her voluminous posts, about two years worth. But she had, let us say, some inside help.
Neville: You’ll also need to change it to a fictitious email in order to prevent yourself from doing a password reset.
N0m: The old Flatbush eiruv from the 1970s was built by the MO and the MO were the only ones that used it. Rav Moshe was opposed to it.
Neville: You remember illini07? He was from the pre-CR days when there was only the main site. When the CR started in the summer of 2008 he was from the first posters here. (In fact, his last post was directed to me.)
Any old timer will surely remember this classical thread:
Eight highly active far-left-wing posters [from a Torah perspective] (all of whom were active on both the main site and the new CR) were identified in the OP. And they weren’t the only ones.
The Modern Orthodox built an Eruv in Flatbush, that only the MO used, during Rav Moshe’s lifetime. In the 1970s, about.
You can do avoda zora for darkei shalom?! You have to die rather than do avoda zora!
ubiq,: I’m glad to see that you still have that Pintele Yid in you.
Neville: Every Ben Torah has a little bit Joseph in them.
Kiryas Yoel
A July 29, 1981 JTA news wire states that Chief Rabbi Immanuel Jakobovits did NOT attend the church service wedding of Charles and Diana.
mentsch: This isn’t an isolated incident. This same Chief Rabbi has in the past expressed public support for toeiva practitioners as well as having taken other positions anathema to the Torah.
Neville: Thank you for this post. You have said everything that needs to be said.
And welcome back.
DaMoshe: Without addressing your claim, since it is irrelevant to this case for the following reason, the official invitations sent to everyone authorized to attend the coronation specifically says:
“… The Earl Marshall is directed to invite Mr. John Doe to be present… “
(Replace John Doe with the invitees name.)
It does NOT whatsoever “command” the invitee to attend.
mentsch1: Yes, it absolutely is hard to believe that this was done by many chashuv rabbanim throughout history, because it simply never was. No chashuv rabbanim have attended a Christian prayer service in a Christian church where they bow down to yushke and pray to him. No matter what the reason or excuse. No matter if it was the King himself who directly ordered him to or not.
Do you remember the story of Chana and her seven sons? Jews do not enter the sanctuary of a church for a prayer to Avoda Zora.
Throughout history Yidden have rather given up their lives and allowed themselves to be killed rather than do such a horrendous thing.
The British coronation service was in the main sanctuary of the church.