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Akuperma
“In America, most Jews gave up on mitsvos and assimilated into the general population. After a few generations, they are clearly goyim who have some Jewish ancestors”
There is nothing “Lucky” about this. This is a terrible tragedy, and it is troubling that you cant see this.
“They cease to be anti-semites.”
do you really need me to list anti-semites who do not have Jewish ancestors?
DY
It was a poorly worded way of pointing out that every chumra comes with a kula.
(A rebbi of mine often told the joke of the newly married brisker who told his wife the day before a taanis not to forget to prepare him breakfast, On the morning of the fast he finds two settings set for breakfast he tells her “No No you need to fast, didn’t I tell you when we got married that my brisker chumros are only for me)
Normative halacha allows for eid echad neeman bissurim and assuming chezkas kashrus in frum people.
The people Joseph knows are perhaps being machmir in kashrus but in so doing are being veeeery meikel regarding the din of eid echad neeman, and giving people chezkas kashrus.
akuperma
“Lucky” ?
How twisted does your sinah have to be that assimilation is now called “Lucky”
We aren’t lucky that “they assimilate further they will no longer see themselves as at all connected to Judaism, and like most Americans, will leave us alone” It is a tragedy!
The Israelis are the lucky ones! Since they have less to assimilate into.
Shame on you
catch yourself
“I know there is some sort of morbid fascination and curiosity,”
So you do understand!
Joseph are those people open orthodox? To be so meikel regarding giving people neemanus and chezkas kashrus. I love kulos as much as the next guy. But being meikel to the point of not eating by anyone ever? That is far too lenient
chevra we are watching history in the making!
On another thread I predicted that in a few decades. All sorts of reasons for this heilege minhag vasikin would be given.
I was wrong!
I heard from Rav Shlesinger in monsey a reason for this minhag (I dont remebmer it) This minhag is taking off faster than expected!
Feel free to give your opwn reason
Heres’s mine:
Ke’eileh is a roshei teives for the four pesukim of geulah in MEgilas esther:
Kuf- ki mordechai hayehudei
Alef – ish yehudi
Lamed – layehudim
Heh – Umordechai hayehudi (It starts with a vav which is only one letter away so its ok)
147
1) Ken zayn the minhag is/was not to wash mayim achronim at the seder. Rationales for minhagim are easy to make up: since mayim achronim is primarily for melech sedomis causing harm, on leil shimurim there is no concern
2) Youll note I never said it was the strongest rayah
3) I’m not sure how long the “minhag” of wetting fingers for mayim achronim is, but while I’m sure there are people who actually wash their hands IVe never actually seen it.
4) Not being included in the simanim is not the same as not being in the haggadah. Dont you find it strange that (almost?) every hggadah has kiddush printed incuding Vayechulu yet rarely (if ever) does it have Sholom aleicehm?
Jewish thinker
One time he drank water outside the sukkah and vomited. I’d be happy to share the details of this story if yu’d like
Akuperma
Granted I never learnt hilchos Para Aduma. Although we did read it recently, so the recipe is still in my head. The only things I recall needing are (See beggining parshas chukas):
1) Para Aduma
2) A kohein
3) Etz Erez
4) Eizov
5) tolas shani
6) Mayim chayim
7) Some kindling to burn the cow
Thats it! (granted some are easier said than done)
Where does the beis hamikdash fit in? (I dont think you need old para aduma ashes either, but that does ring a bell, Beis hamikdash i’ve never heard of needing)
do you have a source?
Akuperma
You havent really answered my question. Why does para aduma need beis hamikdash? Where did you get this idea from?
(the often cited problem is it needs a Kohein, which is a real halacha, its in passuk and brought in Rambam, and elegedly kohanim today are only a safek/chezkas kohein)
akuperma
why does a para aduma need the beis hamikdosh?
Never mind. I found it!
http://www.hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=21194&pgnum=504
(I love google)
yekke2
Where have you seen this letter? I would love to see it.
I had always heard it was of the brain
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/chazon-ish-and-neurosurgery
Lyb
“First, According to those that are saying that kiddush you shod be Machmir with the shiur, then you should be machmir every Friday night.”
Agreed. but see below
“Second, in Shulchan aruch it only mentions a machlokes regarding the kzayis for matzah, … But nowhere does it mention to be machmir by a kos,if it is a doyraysa kos, to use the bigger shiur.”
Why would it be different? When you are unsure/have machlokes regardign shiurim by Deorisa’s me machmir and d’rabanas be meikel. Why would there be a difference between MAtzah and Ksosos?
” If your are machmir to use the biggest shiur by mitzvos in general, then be machmir by the first kis as well. If your not usually machmir in general for the bigger shiur in mitzvos than you won’t have to be machmir here.”
By defintion you never “have to be machmir” If a person wants to be machmir with some mitzvas and not others tovoi alav bracha! Why is it all or nothing? (Especialy given the aformentioned distinction between Deoraysa and Drbanan)
“If your going to want to use the Chazon Ish’s shita for the first kos, you might as well wear the long tzitzis all year round”
Wait what? Mai Inyan shmita Eitzel Har Sinai? How did you even make the conecion MAtzah to tzitizis? A person want to be machmir with a mitzva that is chaviv and comes once a week (or once a year if only PEsach he is makpid, or even once every 3.5 years if he is makpid only when the first night PEsach is Shabbos) Would you say no first get bigger Tzitzis?
Standard minhag is not to
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=46448&st=&pgnum=309
I have never seen it printed in a Hagada, obviously this isnt the strongest rayah, though it certainly indicates that the “standard” minhag is not to say it. (Of course it may be printers were cheap to print it so people stopped saying it, regardless it certainly indciates that it wasnt said.)
As always if your minhag is to say it, then by all means.
Incidently i’ve looked through old hagadahs and they (almost) never have Shir Hamalos printed before benching. I’m not sure why this is. Any thoughts?
LF
I’m curious which of these do you think are chiyuv
– fire alarms in a public place
– having clearly marked and accessable exits in public place
– wearing seatbelts while driving
– putting a locked fence around your pool
– Looking before your cross the sreet
Thanks
Jewish Thinker
I gave you a very detailed account
Mesorah 123
I heard from R’ Michel Shurkin (on multiple occasions)that there is double schar for drinking chalav stam: keeping kosher and listening to the psak of a gadol
Another question:- Do we chant Sholom Aleichem & Eshes Chayil this Friday evening prior to Kiddush on 1st cup?
No
We want to start the seder right away kidei di kleiner kinder zullen nisht einshlufin
I think there should be a new rule men fregt nisht kein kasha oif ah minhag, similar to a kasha oif ah maiseh. Minhagim rarely make sense we do it becuase our parents did it.
So why do those who dont eat gebrokts eat it the ladt day?
Because thats the minhag.
(Incidently, some only eat gebrokts the last day when the following year is a leap year)
Sam2 As far as I’m aware, the standard minhag among non-gebrokts eaters (present company included) is not to use charoses for korech.
As for viewing those who eat gebrokts as “less frum” Please switch every mention of black-hats in this thread http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/black-hat-2 to “not eating gebrokts” and the EXACT same conversation can be had regarding Gebrokts vs non-gebrokts (which is viewed as a chasidish lmisnaged divide)
Friday night Kiddush is Deorysa Source: Shemos 20:8 with Gemara
Arba Kossos is derabanan.
when unsure regarding shiur (or most things for that matter) by deoraysa we are machmir and by derbanan meikel. Hence the bigger shiur for the Deoraisa first kos/Kiddush on Friday night
Jewish Thinker
what kind of Mekor are you looking for?
suppose I told you The story occured Tuesday afternoon February 28 1978 or 21 Adar I 5738. He had justy finished giving a shiur on Atzutz Nakuv, when he asked for a coffee. ONe of the younger bachurim jumped at the oppurtunity and ran off to prepare it. Shortly after having the coffee the Rosh Yeshiva felt unwell and vomited. This was very unusual and created a big tumul. At first soem suspected the milk as it had been sitting out all day, but others drank the milk and were fine. This was really starnge. It was then that the mistake was realized. This young bachur and never prepared the Rosh Yeshiva’s coffee before and was understandibly nervous at the task at hand. He didnt double check the milk and accidently used a private bottle of instea don the Yeshiva’s cholov Yisroel milk. The end
Is that the mekor you had in mind?
now it is even online so it has to be true. And is will be enshrined for all eternity so this silly mekor for for an even sillier story will be preserved for generations to come.
Gamnait Absolutly fantastic question!
The answer is it is a risk/(cost)/benefit analysis, like everything in life. Wearing seatbelts has zero cost, minimal risk and tremendous benefit. Without question not wearing one while driving is putting yourseldf in sakana (even though they didnt exist in chazals time(!)).
For someone prone to allergies not carriyn around an epi pen is s sakana (it has minimal cost/minimal risk and tremendous benefit) HOWEVER for everybody to carry an epi pen has Tremendous cost/ moderate risk/ and Miniaml Benefit thus it is not reccomended.
As for AED’s in those predisposed to arythmia they get an implantable device it has moderate cost/moderate risk/tremondous benefit. For the public, who are not at risk AT THIS POINT it has Tremendous cost/Moderate risk/ and moderate-minimal benefit.
As for smoke detecotrs well the cost is miniaml risk is zero and benefit, well last week’s event should be a wake up.
hope this helps
(note: my stratifying of risk/cost/benefit is complete quess work, I’d be happy to reevaluate any of them)
DY Not me thats for sure. (Although it depends what you mean by “downplaying”)
In your opinion, Which is more obvious and which should be done first?
To all those who said there HAS to be a deeper reason and it cant just be about smoke detectors, or that having smoke detectors should be obvious.
I count at least 2 posters who STILL downplay the need for smoke detectors. (LF and YYBC) Any others?
Thanks comlink. Misogyny was a bit strong, male chauvinism is much better
A maamin, (and others who agree)
Earlier you quote this beshem Rabbi Wallerstien “If Hashem wanted to teach us about smoke detectors and hot plates, Hwe could’ve taken 1 child, we would’ve all been shocked as well, BUT here it was SEVEN KARBONOS!! “
I would like to bring Little Froggie’s last post to your atention, regarding the need for having smoke detectors “We are bidden to be ???? ??????. How far that ??????? goes.. that’s open for discussion.”
It seems Rabbi Wallesrtiens’ assessment was incorrec. Even with 7 korbanos rch”l not everybody got the message. A message that several posters described as “obvious”
Joseph
I dont think non-profit means what you think it means
Jewish Thinker
It was about 5-6 years ago on Purim, in his apartment
Joe
I am so sorry to break this to you but hospitals are mercantile purposes as well. Granted they may be more chashuv than beans but so is wine.
“I don’t think anybody would object to naming a shul or yeshiva after a godol. “
Dont be so sure it is a very big often strange planet. I didtn think anybody would object to naming a wine after a Rishon who was (beleived to have been) a wine-merchant
Jewish Thinker
My family is. Ive asked him before he said he doubted it was true.
I heard from R” Nota Greenblatt that in Memphis R’ Moshe drank cholov stam “and at least in the next 6 hours or so didnt throw up, ich veis nisht vos hut geshen nuch dem”
Bary
No it is less clear. Now your topic has absolutly nothing to do with the OP. (Though still an interesting discussion perhaps, one that I agree with)
Lets back up.
The OP was about differences between groups. I’ll quote:”why wont people go out with guys who don’t wear hats? can’t someone be religious without it? why does this define a person?”
I replied that the hat has come to serve as a self-chosen identifier of belonging to a certain “camp” There are differnces betwen these camps. It is childish to ignore these difernces and assume a Satmarer who never stepped outside Kiryas Joel can build a succesful home with a Modern Orthodox Girl who would like to make Kiddush Friday nights after a day spent farming her kibbutz. Both can be wonderful people yirei Shomayim, etc etc. But singing kumbaya and saying dont judge them based on dress is silly, and helps nobody.
Keep in mind wearing a hat or not, is not in born. If a person comes over to you with a name-tag on their chest that syas” Nice o mett you I am modern-orthodox” There is nothing wrong with assuming they are modern orthodox. This isnt judging. We are not talking about assuming they would sell trief meat (is that really what you thought?) we are talking about assuming someone with a “I am modern orthodox tag” is modern orthodox. A kipa seruga is a modern orthodox. Ditto for a black hat.
I am not sure how your comemnt fits in. I reread your second post It doesnt disagree with anything I said.
Are you starting a new conversation?
I came across an interesing mareh makom. See Tiferes Yisroel to Avos 3:14
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=37946&st=&pgnum=347
where he says That Jenner (the father of modern vaccines) is one of the chasidei umos Haolam, and recieving olam haba for saving ens of thousands from death and disease
Barry
Hanistarim L’Hashem Elokeinu. We cant tell what is internal. People decide to wear or not wear a black hat knowing full well which gruor they are therby self-identifying with. There is nothing wrong with judging people as belonging to a group that they self-identify wih.
Of course we should eb careful to be openminded enough to reevaluate once you get to know people.
Your example had nothing to do with a black hat, its not like if he wore a kipa seruga and sold treif chickens people woud have expected it. (I hope)
Barry
“The Israeli’s aren’t letting anything. Israel was going to attack, but Obama prevented it by exposing parts of the plan, like where Israel was to refuel and also prohibited Israel from flying over Iraqi territory when the U.S. has control of it.”
Was the source for this nonsense the Torah codes too?
Incidently i have a project for You Torah code friend. Could you please ask him to predict who will win the next US election. It can be narrowed down to say 20 names or so, Should take a matter of minutes to run. And if my understanding of the idea behjind the Torah Codes is correct. One and only one name should pop up (They love finding names after the fact which is complete giberish, before the fact would be ssemi-interesting.)
Also “he will be so bad for us, that it will lead to Moshiach.”
did it say how long after?
“If Rav Pam was a bean seller he wouldn’t have been Rav Pam. “
That sounds like a lack of kavod to me! I beleive Rav Pam could have been a bean seller and Rav PAm. Shame on you for knocking a Gadol B’yisroel.
At any rate Rashi was (believed by some historians to have been) a wine merchant and Rahi at the same time. Which is why your examples above where nonsensical
Also
Do you think calling a hospital Maimonides or ???? ????? ???”? is wrong?
DY taking lessons and learning mussar is always a good thing.
but this idea of needing “reasons” for every tragedy, and searching for “deep” understandings. Makes me uncomfortable. Moshe Rabeinu couldnt understand Tzadik Vera Lo. If only he had access to Rabbi Wallerstien’s Zohar he could just open it and find out!
The one certain thing to take from this tragedy is to check smoke detectors. period. If you are inspired to improve in other ways as well. Ma Toiv uma naim
Joseph
“And do you for even a moment think that Rav Pam’s descendants would dare permit his name to be used on a commercial food product (even if there was some relevancy between the food and Rav Pam)”
If Rav Pam was a bean seller. I think they would sell them.
Do you think Rabbi Reisman is opposed to Reisman’s cookies? (I know this is a terrible example, but yours are much worse)
Do you think calling a hospital Maimonides or ???? ????? ???”? is wrong?
(Scared,
joseph said not to buy it)
DY and Sam2
“The question is where the cut-off is. And I honestly have no idea where to put it.”
Those where my exact thoughts. Imagine the following scenario. (not at all related to the one that happened)
A family goes to sleep leaving a blech on the highest flame right next to a bunch of towels there are bottles of turpentine and propane all over the place (They are repainting the house and planning a camping trip at the same time). There are no smoke detectors.
Over night tragedy strikes and r”chl the house burns down with the family in it. Obviously a terrible tragedy, though perhaps avoidable.
Is this a sign from Hashem? Of course it is a tragedy. and of course we should always do Teshuva.
But I think in this case you would agree with Sam2’s
“Don’t try to say the reason is X. Don’t say if you want to get smoke detectors [and not leave flammable substances lying around] then you missed the point. Don’t pander to the crowd who think that the purpose of Emunah is to be able to understand every tiny detail of life that happens. And stop pretending a Rabbi’s job is to be able to answer them.”
Would you disagree in that case?
No but they aren’t alive and they don’t have any descendents who can claim ownership of their name.
If Rav Pam’s descendants allowed it I would certainly be ok with buying it. (Though again, it would be a very strange name)
Joseph relevant or not it is nonsensical. At any rate:
Would you purchase a bottle of Rav Belsky Orange Juice*?
Assuming it was kosher and tasty. Absolutely
Would you find that brand name objectionable?
Assuming he allows it, no why would I?
joseph obviously.
Though your compariosns should be relevant to the subject at hand. none of your examples made any sense
For anyone looking for mekor keneged most of these see
Devarim 18:13
chulentmoma613
Im not sure I follow, but I think I understand
“Does a person always choose a hat? Is it a choice if society forces it upon him?”
In this case yes to both, the person “chooses” to comply so that his kids get in the “right” schools right shiduchim etc. (We arent talking about “everything in life” just hats)
At any rate your question was about not wearing a black hat. I have never met anyone who wanted to wear one but felt pressured not to based on the above reasons (incidentally this speaks volumes about the tolerance of different communities compared ot each other.
Are you aware of a person who does not wear a hat involuntarily? THAT is what you were discussing in the op. I’d love to explain this to you further, but just want to make sure we are discussing the same thing
Ooh ooh picke me here we go in order
No
Yes
Lots of reasons mostly sociological
Yes
Hats arent inborn. The person chooses to wear or not wear a hat.
Ive been saying it for more than 10 years. I said it as soon as saddam was overthrown Though you are right people did say I wS crazy. Consider this though the Israelis are “letting” also.
Joseph, I dont follow was R’ Moshe a chilent maker? Waa Rav Elyashiv a fishmonger? Etc…
Yosi7, i’m a step ahead. Reread post.
Scared ive reread your post a few times and am still not sure which way you are arguing.
At any rate here are a few yeshivos named after rabbonim. Feel free to add more:
Chofetz chaim
Yeshivas rabeinu chaim berlin
Yeshivas rabeinu yitzchak elchanon
Chasan sofer
Beis yosef navardak (unless yosef was a donor)
Nequuitam and yekke2
The only one who brought a “mekor” of any kind on this thread was comlink (and Joseph). I double checked. (you dont provide a mekor either). This thread is chockfull of non-mekor based misogynist views. (Obviously that doesnt necessarily make them wrong)
That said, I never said I disagree. I said that I found the juxtaposition between:
“somewhere that in the End of Days, women would be equal to men, and that this begins to happen in the world as we approach that time.”
and the next post “and ?? ????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? a woman, who has pretty much zero ??? ????” Funny.
Thanks Yekke2 your post (absurd as it was)cracked me up reading Comlink’s post about women becoming equal to men and then in the very next comment “and ?? ????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? a woman, who has pretty much zero ??? ????”
made for a funny juxtaposition
BTw are you serious? (Poe’s law)
a mamin
Do you remebr the name Avigdor KRasny A”H? I didnt
I may be naive but I dotn think anybody will forget the Sasoon family.