ubiquitin

KY
“Killing a million is not worse than killing one PER EACH INDIVIDUAL KILLED .”

Hitler never killed anybody

“The gemarahs question by Moloch was how can adding more volume of the same sin clear the sinner from punishment.”
I’m not sure what you are adding .
As I understnd your position currently:
Aveiras are judged based on theri punishment, unless we have an explicit source telling us that this aveira is worse although the punishment is less (Do i have this right)

so my question from Molech was how do you know sacrificing all children is worse, do you have a source?
Your response was, Rashi tells us it is worse.

This is the PERFECT example of our discussion. to me the question is crazy. Of course sacrificing all chidren is worse. Aye why doesnt it get a punishment, ok that needs a teritz.
Your position is wow sacrificing all chidren is obviosuly not as bad, from the fact that it doesnt have punishment, aye there are exceptions. We cant lable exceptions on our own . wait never mind Rashi says all chidren is worse, so ok this is yet another exception

“Oh and BTW, the lor who wiped my yeshiva plate clean without knowing me at all,”
That was the kaf zehus we came up with
the other possibility was that you never thought about/realized how severe rape was or that you did and were trying to downplay it

“Is he the one who I am still waiting for sources, from, from our last thread?”
no more sources, the argument hifted a bit since we started, and as things stand now “Only in today’s dor can anyone even have such a hava amina, i dont even think in sedom they would pose such a question”

“I should just take his opinion, anonymous as it is, on faith?
CMon!”
no no no no of course not. I did not mean to imply that, (which is why I only posted the comment here I think youll find it funny, you probably feel the opposite) that was more for me than for you. I am having a hard time understanding how a person can have a tzad that Killing one child is worse than all, unless I can PROVE otherwise. similarly that having an arm cut off is worse than hitting. let alone outr original topic.
I find it cathartic falling back on its not your fault
you are one hundred percent free to argue. I did not mean to mkae some kind of argument from authority.
I’m not sure if any rabbinic figure told you stealing was worse than rape (I hope not) if they did they are 100% wrong. I did not mean that you have to agree with me becasue of any Rabbi, let alone an anonymous one.

“Call your lor for practical application”

I did, he is the one who says you never went to yeshiva.

“First off I’m not sure that someone Who performs an abortion is not חייב מיתה”

You should be. There is no shiya that I’m aware of that holds that regarding a Jew.

Regarding #1. So if not for Rashi you would be unsure, you’d havecahava Amina that sacrificing all children is better.
Your answer to #2 settles the conversay if your not sure whether being hit or having a leg cut off clearly we are operating in different universe s
Your dodging the question in #3 makes me feel a little better

Your comment regarding the Bunyan tziton is really upside down. Clearly punishment is not the some determinant. And as to your comment YES! Nailed it All other poskinm argue on the Bunyan tziton and cadaveric donations are routinely done and aren’t even halachicly controversial. Brain death on the other hand….

Plus you suggested that the reason a Beulah has no punishment is because it’s so bad one can’t get cleansed so “easily ””

I suggested that as a a possibility. I don’t know the reason. and that is ok.

“Abortion”

I’m confused according to the ranking of punishments, for a JEw to perform an abortion theres no misah, nor kareis nor malkos, theres a fine. Presumably if the woman requests it there isnt even a fine. Just so I understand yo u correctly, are you saying for a JEw to perform an abortion (at the mothers request) is less of an averia than “stealing a pen” ? (I’m not disputing the point I just find it surprising that that is your position and looks like we may have uncovered yet another exception,)

(as an aside, tzoras is a punishment,”
Not in this sense see the Rambam Avos 2:1 for the list that we generally follow, you’ll note tzoras isnt there)

I am genuinely trying to understand your view. I find it fascinating

I still have a few questions.
2 where in my last post that went up the same time as yours .

1) Which is a worse act sacrificing all chidren to moilech, or some, and how do you know?
2) whcih is a worse act hitting someone in a light way (where there is no tashlumin so he gets malkos) or maiming someone (where he pays and deosnt get malkos) . and how do you know?
3) Is a girl who says steal my money but dont rape me, over lifnei iver becasue she is causing her assailant to do a worse aveira? what about a bystander who makes the offer ? ( Ive asked this question a few times, If you asked it I missed the answer)

The exceptions

Generally a worse punishment indicates a worse aveira.
However, we have uncovered many exceptions. I.e. cases where an aveira does not have sucha severe punishment, yet it is worse than other aveiros with more severe punishments:

(in the order we presented them over the two threads on the subject obviously some are stronger texamples than others) )
1) Being a Zionist (very big aveira in your view but no punishment)
2) sinas chinam (no classic onesh, yet worse thn gimmel chamuros Yoma 9b)
3) hashcasa zera (no classic punishment yet seforim talk about how serious it is)
4) Sacrificing all kids to Molech (doesnt carry misah , yet obviosly worse than sacrificing some )
5) being boel goy, (no onesh, other than kanoin pogin if caught in the act)
6) Kiruv to Erva ( is yeharog veal yaavor yet no onesh)
7) The situation around an act makes it worse, liek stealing from poor vs rich yet onesh is the same (Shmuel 2:12)
8) murder (is worse than chilul shabbos have to give life for murder not shabbos)
9) Lashon harah (no earthly punishment but sichas mussar says frok the fact that it gets tzoras see it is more serious)
10) embarrasing someone (better to jump in fire “keilu horgo”))
11) swearing fasley (same as #9 gets tzoras)
12) Gasos ruach (ditto)
13) gezel (ditto)
14) stinginess/tzaros ayin (ditto)
15) treating bnos yisoel “kalos/lightly” (sanhedrin 75 b says better person died than talk to girl)
16) Destroying anothers property (BK 60b according to Rashi cant destry property to save life)
17) Nivul hames (Binyan tziyon 170 can’t take deceased’s organs to save life)
18) עֵינַ֣יִם רָ֭מוֹת (passuk Mishlei one of the worst aveiros lists it with יָדַ֗יִם שֹׁפְכ֥וֹת דָּם־נָקִֽי yet no onesh in the classic sense )
19) Lying (same)
20) לֵ֗ב חֹ֭רֵשׁ מַחְשְׁב֣וֹת אָ֑וֶ (same)
21) same
22) פִ֣יחַ כְּ֭זָבִים עֵ֣ד שָׁ֑קֶר (same)
23) מְשַׁלֵּ֥חַ מְ֝דָנִ֗ים בֵּ֣ין אַחִֽים (same)

As a reminder the list of onshim to determine seveity is : Sekilah, sereifa Hereg, chenek, Kares, misha bidei shomayim malkos Rambam Avos 2:1

“. The rule and it’s exceptions are really all a single expression of the rule makers will. ”

ah but you are forgetting a piece.
As we discussed in the very beginning there is also an innate sense of morality that the ribono shel olam put in the briyah. Even if He didnt command us not to kill we would still be expected not to. Moroever., even not knowing isnt an excuse. granted for beis din to kill you need hasraah, but this is by a Jew. If a goy kills he would be killed without hasraah,
what would you tell the goy if he asked “but how was I to know killing is wrong?” ?

Lets take this a step further. There is no lav “though shalt not rape”
Yet you acknowledge that it is wrong, for us and for a ben noach. The entire city of shchem was killed for this aveira. but again how were they to know? what azahara did they have?

“What means in essence that each time, you evaluated the two sins, and decided, yes , since the one with the greater punishment seems to be a greater sin (or the greater sin has the greater punishment, same thing) i can follow the rule stating that greater punishment equals greater sin.
But in reality you haven’t followed the rule at all, because you have already arrived at that conclusion yourself, before you are willing to accept that rule.”

not at all. I have no idea why cheilev is worse than nevilah. It isnt “logical” to me, SO when deciding which is worse, chazal tell us how to determine it. Driving on shabbos doesnt seem that terrible, so chazal say look at the onesh. But if I ask you whats worse getting hit with 1 psi of force vs 10 psi . Would you say well they are equal since both get malkos ?
what about getting hit or having an arm cut off?
Well, obviously hit is worse since it gets malkos, however when an arm is cut off r”l it is nosein letashlumin so there is no malkos. (the hitting in this case was not in public so no boshes, tzar was less than a shava peruta no ripui, sheves or nezek either)
Putting aside the sheer illogicality of maintaining that hitting someone is worse than maiming them (I know yet ANTOHER exception)
My point is the whole exercise of evaluating these aveiros in this way is strange. Is thatreall y how you think aveiros are evaluated?

In fact, I lost track of many of the wonderful marei mekomos we both brought , did any of them weigh severity of bein adom lechaveiro based on punishment (Not agadata punishment, I mean the classic halachic punishment of misas besi din, kareis, misah bidei shomayim etc ) ? We had many many that didn’t , do we have any that do?

If I say ” I’d rather get hit than maimed ” Does that make me a heretic ?
Is the girl who says “please don’t rape just steal my money” a heretic because she isnt following this rule?

(If you are saying that SHE can prefer to be robbed, but WE can’t prefer that she gt robbed, you’d have to clarfiy the difference)

KY
“mods delete posts”
Yes, plus today was a glitchy day. thanks for powering through, and sticking with me.

“if we allow our own “critical thinking ” to decide whice are exceptions, then in essence it is always our “critical thinking “deciding which is worse.”

Thats a variant of slippery slope. It isnt logically compelling.

“according to your logic, the reason , possibly, that a penuya has no onesh is because its the worst… sound weird to me but hey!”

Oh totally sounds weird.
But you grant that your position that theft is worse than rape is baffling to (I didnt go back to check but I believe in the first thread you indicated that while you felt this was correct, it was hard to understand)

SO both of us are stuck with a hard to understand position, is mine so much stranger than yours?

“when society devolves to a point where murder is permissable would you then , using your critical thinking….”
No 2 reasons (dont get caught up on the order)
1) We’d use our critical thinking to realize why murder is worse and that society was wrong
2) We have the Torah to follow and the torah tells us murder is yehraog vela yaavor. so even if worms seemed worse. We are mevatel our daas to the Torah.

KY

“Had the torA outright said use a thorn bush though, you don’t see the gemarahs saying, nah, that can’t be. It hurts to much”

Oh absolutely!
but the Torah DOESNT say stealing is worse than rape. YOU are.

And before you say that the Torah does say it based on the rule that worse punishment = worse aveira.
you acknowledge that the rule isnt absolute there are exceptions “I agreed there are exceptions. Provided there is a good basis for it.”

you just don’t think there is a “good basis” to say that rape is worse than stealing. You don’t view what we all think/see is not a good basis. You are looking for a Passuk to say that it is worse. You are unwilling (or unable) to think critically and say wait, obviously it is worse.

“A פסוק במשלי is about as good of a basis that I can ask for in my book”
I’m not sure what you are trying to show from Mishlei?
Absolutely! and it practically tells us that severity of an act is NOT determined based on onesh

“I was just looking to show that לשה”ר is basically worse than a homely bunch of sins”
So Lashon harah is worse than say chilul shabbos.
Of the 7 avieros listed (gaiva, lying, murder, thinking evil plans, running to do evil things , testifying falsely, and causing fuights עֵינַ֣יִם רָ֭מוֹת לְשׁ֣וֹן שָׁ֑קֶר וְ֝יָדַ֗יִם שֹׁפְכ֥וֹת דָּם־נָקִֽי׃ לֵ֗ב חֹ֭רֵשׁ מַחְשְׁב֣וֹת אָ֑וֶן רַגְלַ֥יִם מְ֝מַהֲר֗וֹת לָר֥וּץ לָֽרָעָה׃ יָפִ֣יחַ כְּ֭זָבִים עֵ֣ד שָׁ֑קֶר וּמְשַׁלֵּ֥חַ מְ֝דָנִ֗ים בֵּ֣ין אַחִֽים׃. SIX! dont have an onesh in the classic sense

Interestingly these are all bein adom lechaveiro which fits my paradigm nicely (that greater punishment = greater sin applies to bein adom lamakom)

I’m not sure how you deal with this growing list of exceptions.
Why doesnt the Gemara yoma (or other places the general rule is listed) ask this question?

“I quoted a gemarah
You stated that’s a prime example of warped thinking
To which I responded I sound to have the gemarahs warped, your call, logic”

I dont know what gemara you are reffering to. you dont have ANY proof on your side*. Granted, I dont have an explicit Gemara that says rape is worse than theft either . Our discussion is whether I need one.

your argument is that without a gemara/passuk we cant know things.
My argument is unless a Gemara/passuk etc says the oppsoite of what we see, we can (and must!) rely on our critical thinking

* as a reminder don’t get confused. Your argument is NOT that we always follow greater punishment, as you grant there are exceptions. nor is the argument if we generally follow greater punishment, because that was never in dispute

And if you dont mind just so I have this clear, If a single girl is being raped r”l . IT is wrong for her to let the assailant rob her instead since that would be lifnei iver causing him to do a worse aveira. correct?

KY
“pps if a worldview shaped by clear (to me) rayoos from multiple georahs plus an explicit rambam that another poster posted her, is warped, im proud to have such warped thinking.”

Wowah easy slow down you are confusing yourself. Or me.

I missed any of the rayaahs you brought to your view. True you brought some raayahs that generally we judge based on severity, though I wouldn’t call them raayahs its an expliocit gemara. But that wasnt the discussion. The question was whether it was absolute.

(I’m also not sure which poster that mentioned a Rambam you are referring to)

and shame on you for calling a Gemara warped. If it seems warped that is your chisaron, work on understanding the Gemara/Rambam. OR submit that you dont understand it. but that doesnt make it warped

At any rate, I was under the impression that you (now?) agree that there ARE exceptions to the general rule.

Our dispute is if this is yet another exception or not.
Do I have these last two lines wrong?
“we need not debate “slippery slope” ”
I’m glad, it isnt much of a debate. . Ive found that “slippery slope” arguments are an illogical desperate argument made in a last ditch effort to support an untenable position. It can be (and has been) used to support any and every position imaginable.
Or put another way, slippery slope arguments are a slippery slope towards justifying absolutely anything you want to do.

“i’ll stick with trying to accept hashems opinion wether or not i understand it.”
Lol thanks that made me laugh (א ביטערע געלעכטער). Its totally ratzon Hashem that if Ploni rapes a penuya and olmoni tells others about it. We should view olmoni as the biggger rasha

Before ending this wonderful discussion though. If you dont mind my summarizing just so that I have your position clear:

You grant that there are exceptions to the general rule that severity of averia is judged by the severity of the punishment. However you do not believe rape is such an exception.

Do I have that right?

KY

(My last comment was posted before yours)

“yes if the punishment for stealing is worse than the punishment re a penuya then in my worldview it means hashem thinks its worse.”

Even though that is complelty illogical, and goes against what we can see with our eyes (I dont mean literally obviously), even though you concede there ARE exceptions to your worldview. So its not like the “rule” forcing you into this logically untenable position is absolute.

“at the end i think our positions once again are closer than we thought originally”

I couldn’t disagree more I think your position is morally twisted., and an example of lack of critical thinking prevalent in the community I grew up in all disguised as false tzidkus (“simply because i choose to have my morals dictated to me by hkb”h rather than trying to decide myself.”)

I was CERTAIN that by getting you to concede that there were exceptions to the general rule of judging a sin based on severity, (which wasnt easy but I persisted) , you would grant that maybe this was another exception.

I was wrong.

KY

“No. לשה”ר is much worse. It gets צרעת”

Interesting.
where does tzoras rank on the order of onshim?

“So which is worse גסות הרוח or neveila?
גסות הרוח.”
So If a person has a choice between being haughty or eating neveilah, youd tell him to eat the neveila?

“In his specific instance, he was beyond love struck. His talking to her was just a cover to having a mental connection to her. Ie. Fulfill his fantasy. In that case חזל said it’s אבוזריהו דארייות ויהרג ועל יעבור”

sooooooo, severity of onesh does not ALWAYS translate to severity of aveira.

“This one seems so easy you must have a trick up your sleeve.
חילול שבת-סקילה is much worse
ניבול המת I’m not sure there is any עונש down here for it.”

No trick,. though the defintion of “worse” is getting a bit muddled.

If a person is dying, and to save him we can either be menavel a mes or be mechale shabbos. Accordign to the Binyan Tziyon he should be mechalel Shabbos.
why would you do the worse averia, when we can do less severe one?

“To be clear, I’m obviously not saying it can NEVER be learnt from the onesh. Just that it can’t always be learnt from the onesh

Well well well
Once you go there we are not really arguing anymore.”

hold up, I said that from the get go!
Its a beferish gemra in multiple places.

I mentioned several times, that perhaps there was a distiction bein adom lemakom vs bein adom lacheveiro (Though Nidah/goyha doesnt fit well, maybe we can borrow your distiction

Joseph
“As no one addressed my above point regarding intermarriage versus nidda, it is fair to say that everyone agrees with it.”

Lol you didnt make a point (you rarely do)
And using your “logic” since you didn’t address ANY of my points, you agree with them. Interesting, I wouldnt have thought

KY
regarding intermarriage vs Nidah,. I hear your point but you are dodging mine. Granted I said “marry” but my point holds for any union. In my experience we are more opposed to a Jew living with a goy than with a non-frum Jewess. Do you perceive it differently?
I don’t think it is merely the “technicality” that by a Goy the very union is wrong, while non-frum it is other aspects. But again, I do hear your distinction and perhaps this “rayah” that was already weak to begin with since I dont really have a mekor for it, is even weaker.

“The guns helped them. They only went to jail prior to court date(s).
Not one court found them guilty.
GOT IT?!”

I got it, but your thinking is muddled.

I’ll walk you through it, stick with me.

1- Dooms said “Purpose of 2nd amendment is to protect us against Tyranny.”
2- I pointed out that this wasn’t true since an individual (or even group) can’t sstand a chance against the US government with their guns.
3- You said “Ever hear of Cliven Bundy? He basically won against the US government!”
4- To which You and I pointed out that he didnt win wit h his guns he won through the court, as you put it “Not one court found them guilty.”

In fact he LOST his armed attempt, since, as you said “went to jail prior to court date”
His gun didnt help hi win at all, Te courts did

So how is this an example of using a gun to protect yourself against tyranny. The court protected him Not his gun.

Where did I lose you?

They run out of battery and I need to charge it mid day.

on second thought my Nidah “rayah” might not be one at all.

Its very possible that although we would rather he be with nidah than goya (an assertian I am being strictly based on sevara I would love any sources on this topic) , He is doing a worse aveira., but we would rather he do worse aveira for a greater good.

Although we don’t say חטא כדי שיזכה חברך, ( shabbos 4a) in the tzad that we did say that. Do we say the person doing the aveira still has an aveira, he is worse off for having done it , he will get an onesh/need kaparah. But do the aveira ie get the onesh, ie do the worse act, to benefit your friend.
Or no, in that tzad, it wouldnt be the worse act, NOT doing the aveira would be worse maybe he’d even get get punished for not doing the aveira . There has to be some discussion on this, I will go hunting over shabbos bl”n. Though I’m not certain it relates to our topic

philospher
this has nothing to do with marriage
It affects all parts of life.

It is our job as parents to educate our children, (and as humans to work on ourselves) that just because they do it doesn’t mean we do it.
Is this easy? no. Life isn’t easy

The answer isnt to shirk our duty and say ok I’ll get them to stop.

Haimy
no they shouldnt.

“Where is the source that you are allowed to eat something that you know in advance may have visible treif or basar bcholov in it ?”

This conversation is getting comfusing.

If it is visible, remove it.

If it is not visible the source is Rema YD 98:1

“Ever hear of Cliven Bundy? ”

sure did! 🙂

“He basically won against the US government!”
lets go through this example since you brought it up.
how did he win?

Rebyid
“How does having nuclear weapons protect from other countries having nuclear weapons?”
I think you sat on your keyboard again . I have no idea what you are trying to say, are you sure you posted on the right thread?

Dooms

Oh my the tyranny in New Zealand, Australia, the UK etc all countries with stricter 100’s of millions killed.

“Purpose of 2nd amendment is to protect us from tyrannical government.”

Ive been asking these questions over and over hopefully you can answer:

1) how does this work.? I view the government as tyranical, I pay way to much taxes, when the IRS shows up to confiscate my property do you support my right to defend my property from what I view as a tyranical government. in other words how does this work exactly?

2) Do you support my right to own weapons that can actually be usd agaisnt the government such as jets, tanks automatic weapons etc. I’m worried that my semi-automatic just won’e cut it. Keep in mind the second amendment speaks of “arms” not “guns” or “firearms” so do I have a right to own a nucleur warhead, whci we would need to actually fight off the tyranical government?
Thanks

KY

I too enjoy our discussion.
And youve gotten me to reevaluate and prove my position which is great.

furthermore you got me to rethin another position, that is tangentially related to this, namely does every halachic position need “proof” or are some obvious.

My inital inclination was that some things are obvious, but I’m less sure now.

Incidentally do you know of any discussions regarding which is worse intermarriage or marrying someone who won’t keep taharas hamishpacha.

Using your framework I take it you’d say the latter is worse. To me, it is obvious that the former is worse, though I concede that I cant prove it (I have some weak rayahs up my sleeve but nothing worth sharing at the moment)

DO you (or anyone reading this ) know of any treatments on this topic?

Looking forward to Thursday

On second thought

Isnt this line of the Mahrsha “אין לדון כן לענין עונש דאימא זה שעשה עבירה החמורה מזו אינו מתכפר בעונש המפורש בקלה” An explicit rayah to my position namely: That the more severe punishment does not necesarily indicate it is a more severe aveira ?

(Of course others can argue on the Marsha but hey a discerning reader will choose which of the two he wants to go with. 🙂 )

I read the piece you quoted quite well. and again thank you for providing it

during our previous discussion if I had asked you wahts worse Lashon harah or Lying. You would have said (I assume) they are equal since the punishment for the two is the same .

Yet here you see that there are other factors that are taken into account. Lashon harah is far more severe. although if course it doesnt get a more severe punishment than lying. (Certainly not today when there is no tzoras, though to be fair I guess there is no misas beis din either)

Furthrmore the Gemara in Eirachin 16a says there are 7 aveiros that get tzoras על שבעה דברים נגעים באין על לשון הרע ועל שפיכות דמים ועל שבועת שוא ועל גילוי עריות ועל גסות הרוח ועל הגזל ועל צרות העין

So which is worse גסות הרוח or neveila?

I thought of a few more exscellent rayos that severity is not always judged by onesh (I guess you’d view them more exceptions to add on to the 5 or so that we had already)

1) Sanhedrin 75: relates of a man who was lovestruck and would die unless he was with a woman, or saw her or or spoke to her . The Rabbonim refused although she was single (according to one man deamar)
where does talking to a single girl rank in terms of onesh?

and yet look how severe an aveira it is.

2) B”K 60: Brings the story of Daovid who asked the sanhedrin if he can destroy other’s money to save his life. Sanhedrin said no (except that he was a king so HE was allowed) Rashi learns this literally. IT is assur to save your life by destroying other’s property. (tos, and the Rosh among others argue and take it as a given that you can and learn the question there as whether youd have to pay)

See binyan Tzion 167 where he discussees this shaila lehalacha
See also teshuva 170 whregarding using a deceased’s organ “נלענ”ד דגם ע”פ שיטת התוספ’ והרא”ש אסור להציל החי ע”י ביזוי המת וכל שכן כיון דהביזוי והניוול הוא ודאי ואם יגיע הצלה לחי עי”ז הוא ספק ושב ואל תעשה עדיף”

So I ask you what is a worse aveira nivul hameis or chilul shabbos?
what is the onesgh for each?

According to Rashi whats worse stealing or chilul shabbos ?
again what is the onesh for each?

The unifying these among most exceptions is as I said that the gauge of severity based on onesh applies bein adom lemakom. Bein adom lechaveiro we find many explicit cases that sometimes a less severe punishment is a worse aveira. (Though The exception you provided last thread about marrying a goyah doesnt fit my rubric well which the Rambam warns you is very severe in spite of the onesh not being severe

An excellent rayah that we DON’T look at the onesh to gauge the severity.

Loshon harah does not have misah nor a korvon nor malkod you might think it’s not so bad.
So sichos mussar points out no it’s terrible.

Similarly hamlbin pnei chaveiro. There’s no onesh misah. No big deal, right? Wrong! It’s terrible keilu horgo!

Ai why don’t we gauge based on the onesh? Because while a good gauge and good rule of thumb. It isn’t absolute

” I do not think it is fair to tell my daughter, “Listen, sweetie, I know all of your friends and classmates are getting married in beautiful halls with gowns, etc, but we can’t afford it, so your wedding will be in the school gym with regular Shabbos clothing.””

Its nice, shes old enough to get married, shes old enough to be mature about finances. and if not then THAT is where we should work on as a community. Just becasue some meshugenar spent x amount of money on a wedding (that he could or couldnt afford) doesnt mean all of us have to.

You say “Think about this: The cost of a cheap Orthodox Jewish wedding today is at least $20,000. The average annual household income in the United States is just about $60,000. Does this make sense?”

Of course it doesnt make sense. So dont do it

interjection

“There is no right to make bombs so the argument isn’t comparable.”

a. Says who?
and b. why not?

“The right to own firearms exists.”
you might want to double check your text of the second amendment. It does not say “firearms”

” then why shouldn’t we ban bowling balls? ”
Because bowling balls werent used to kill over 30,000 people last year . IF they were then yes they should be better regulated.

Ben Levi

“Do you honestly think that no other country has this problem?’

Yes, the Us has the highest rate of mass shootings among developed countries.

“Yes it’s true in Israel they do not really have this problem you see when people are upset in Israel and the rest of the Mideast they use bombs ”

So using your “logic” they (and we) should make bombs legal. Boms don’t kill people, people kil people. and of course drugs are already illegal and people abuse drugs anyway