ubiquitin

DY

From my limited time there that is unquestionably true there is a feature that allows you to find people nearby with telegram. sure you can turn it off so yo ucant be “found”

but you, or anyone wit hthe app, can turn it on, and find or be found by anyone nearby and share whatever you want (or dont want)

deleted

see

IMPORTANT – READ THIS: Should We Be Leaving WhatsApp?

I don’t fully get it
I switched to Telegram too why?
do we think this free messaging app is doing it out of pure chessed and isnt interested in our data?

Is it just to show Zuckerberg whose in charge (don’t get me wrong I’m all for that) ?

participant

“in your prev post to me you say “nah this isn’t a deadline not so sure what this is saying.”
now reread post 930315.”

Great question! keep asking. dont forget Lo habayshan lomad.

There is no deadline Trump can bring evidence whenever he wants (post 1936857)
Trump never had any evidence it was all a charade*
with me ?

Now some supporters were hoping that he had evidence. different supporters had benchmarks that THEY created by which it would be apparent to them that there was no evidence (something most new almost right away).
Note these benchmarks or “deadlines” are not legal ones . They are benchmarks or deadlines by which he would have supplied evidence* if he had any or as I wrote in post # 930315. “There is a spectrum of how long people are willing to hold on to the fantasy that he can. some gave it until the Electoral college (a reaosnable benchmark as outlined above) others are giving it until Jan 6 still others until JAN 20. others even after that.”

Perhaps you do well with mesholim.

You invite your friend for Shabbos Lunch you tell him We start the meal 11:00 but come whenever. now this friend is a bit flaky and he has a tendency not to show up.
11;00 He doesnt show- you say well he certainly wont be on time lets give him some time
your wife says He never comes he’s not coming
11:30 People who davened at his minyan pass by your house
your son says, forget it hes not coming
You say no give him time theres no deadline of 11:30
your wife says He never comes he’s not coming
2:00 You’re done your meal deciding if you should go to mincha
your daughter says meal is over, hes not coming
You say no give him time there’s no deadline of 2:00
your wife says He never comes he’s not coming
6:00 Youve made Havdolah
you say ok I guess he isnt coming
your wife says yes I told He never comes
of course some wil lstill say maybe the supreme court will bring him.

Now. Was there A Deadline” by which he had to come, in one sense No. The meal starts at 11:00 maybe he’s running late. but on the otherhand everybody has there own benchmark by which THEY HAVE given up hope. You son isnt dumb for thinking that he would have come by 11:30 , althoug h you never told him He had to come then same for your daughter at 2:00

Hope this helps**

*Note Never had evidence, or the courts weren’t interested in evidence, or never had enough evidence are practically speaking all the same for this thread

** No mashal is perfect don’t get to caught up in it ITs supposed to make it easier for you to understand If it isnt helping forget it.

(also note: There are other reasons that make Dec 15 important too like faithless electors, and that legally I’m not sure it can be overturned even if was in errror, but I’m not sure about this last point, and the first more obvious point is giving you such a hard time it is probably best we steer clear of more advanced stuff) youve been ignoring too like faithless electors (other than the Clintons which is one point youve been write about See you can say smart things! Don;t be so hard on yourself they were unlikely to vote for Trump I grant that)

“this time it really is my last time”

all the best!
and refuah sheleimah to your stomach, but don;t neglect your blood pressure either

TVP

the problem is that doesnt hold up under the slightest bit of Scrutiny

Where the people there to show they were ” united behind Trump” confused when Giuliani called for “Trial by combat” ?
Can you provide a quote from any speaker calling for “transparency”?

“Now what exactly could trump have wanted from pence? ”
a few points 1) Trump doesn’t have the first clue abotu the constituion as is clear everytime he mentions it (eg “I have this great Article II that nobody talks about” or when first running ands asked what kind of justices he’d nominate ““[justices] would look very seriously at her email disaster.”” ) So Trump wanted PEnce to hand him the elction, he didnt understand that Pence cant’t
2) The point wasn’t Pence at that point, he told it to the crowd, remember. He wanted to egg on the crowd. To trick them into thinking there was still la chance if only they would “fight much harder”
And it worked ! there are several reports of protestors calling for Mike PEnce to be hanged Lin Wood (Trump’s former (?) lawyer ) called for

so to answer your question
“what are you concerned about?
1) I’m concerned that the President doesnt have a basic understanding of the constituion
2) Im concerned that the President told his VEEP to disregard the constitution (the fact that he couldn’t doesn’t make it better I don’t really get the logic there
If Trump said ok “No more Free Speech for liberals” while legally it would mean nothing it should still concern you
3) I’m concerned that he manipulated the crowd into thinking they still stood a chance if they “showed strength”

shady

“That’s the best you’ve got?! You’ve got to be kidding me.”

Yeah, its pretty bad. and no I’m nto kidding hte Presdient really told his Vice PResident to disregard the Constituion and tricked many of his followers into thinking they could overturn the election.

Terrible I know. Definitely impeachable,
although probably not technically legally incitement

I think you are missing the context . Otherwise I don’t know what you are missing

The plan was to “overturn the lection” with violence if needed.

Trump had his day in court (and again and again and again…) There was nothing left to do but certify the vote that had been decided by the electoral college

Instead Trump tricked and manipulated his followers into believing they could overturn the lection. This was impossible to do (peacefully) he lied and tricked people into thinking Pence had a say in the matter. He threw his loyal VP who stood by him in thick and thin right under the bus and sent a bunch of his crazed followers after him. He did not call for peaceful protest. He egged them on, even AFTER the rioting when he said “go Home in peace” he still called them (the rioters) “patriots”

The start of that tweet was ““These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long,”” If thats isnt condoning I dont know what is? You ask “what am I missing” you keep missing the context. Saying “Ok everybody good job I’m proud of you , but now its time to go home” (not a verbatim quote but that IS the gist) is NOT condemning

Reminds me of the scene in Fiddler on the roof when the constable who brings his men along to a pogrom yells “enough” after the the destruction.
Trump supporters would view him as a good guy , I guess after all he said “enough” ??

and again it isnt just the liberal media. Senator Toomey, Murkowski. Pence Reportedly considered tenacting the 25th. Several cabinet members resigned . Ari Fleisher Chris Christie who had been constantly been defending him have no condemned him

I understand that when truth comes from the media, many like waving their hands and favoring “alternative facts” with the magic words “fake news” that just makes facts change. But this isnt just the liberal media

DY

No, and for that reason the justice department said they weren’t pursuing it

Participant

“1. then wth is the point of this thread?”
As explained earlier There was never any chance of overturning the election.
Most people new that.

Some people beleived Trump, that he had some evidence he was taking time to put it together and when a judge would see it things would go his way.

Those people chose to give him some time to make his case.
Again, he never had a chance of making a case
Some people gave him until Dec 15 realizing (As you didnt) that ultimatly that was what REALLY counted, and maybe States would direct electors or courts would or there would be faithless lectors – no not the clintons but , and I realize this is news to you, there were 304 eelctors pledged to vote for the Democrat who were not clintons.

Once Dec 15 passed, and Trump didn’t provide anything substantial those people, correctly , realized that there was less of a chance that he ever would. Some held out hope a bit longer, but with every passing day more and more people realized he had nothing- or perhaps the courts weren’t interested in hearing what he had .

On Jan 6/7 we came even closer. Now most people relaize he had nothing (or tha the courts werent intrested) Sure there are some who still Don’t quite get it See Health’s comment on Jan /7 “Btw, Trump might still be President because Hopefully the SCOTUS will decide in his Favor.”

but by now most people know that Trump doesnt have any ace up his sleeve.

do you relaize that yet?

Were you able to read up on the Electoral college?

2. Yes its the point you’ve been making but I explained to you (patiently) that you were mistaken

see reply # 1930315 on 12/20 “he cant prove fraud There is a spectrum of how long people are willing to hold on to the fantasy that he can. some gave it until the Electoral college (a reaosnable benchmark as outlined above) others are giving it until Jan 6 still others until JAN 20. others even after that.” (before your ” clear and detailed post (my last on the first page)” that was as wrong and irrrelvent as all your other posts on this page)

3″3. funny how you woke up now that it’s not the point of this thread. in previous posts you’ve talked about potential deadlines and how they all passed.”

Yep. and another one passed on Jan 6.

Again some are hoping there will be some miracle before Jan /20 Some will still be hoping for some karaken release in Jan 2135, And Trump’s corpse will be propped up as president. I suspect you fall into that camp.

“now you’ll answer
participant
you should really take a civics lesson.”
Yes You should!

” the electoral college has to vote and it has to be ratified by congress.”

Yes. Thanks to me you now know that. youre welcome!!

” if there was fraud why hasn’t trump proven it yet? he had plenty of time to prove it .”

Excellent point!

” now all ships have sailed. ”
not all, but another one (though remember there never were any ships)

“when would you think is a reasonable deadline to have to 8prove fraud?”

Excellent question

” do you agree with health?”
another good question!

” there are some who will always say there’s fraud. do u agree with them?”
December 13 was a reasonable deadline for him to have had to prove fraud. now all ships have sailed. there was no fraud.”
Nah It isnt a deadline, not so sure what this is saying

” I said there was no fraud.”

Yes, (though again remember the context: that he would be able to prove)

” I also said if there was fraud he had to have proven it by Dec 14 even tho that’s not the point of this thread. ”
I never said that, so no its not the point of the thread

“so what don’t you understand?”

“there. wrote it for you. thank me for saving you the time.”

Thanks ! was pretty good Second half didnt make sense, but first half wasn’t bad.

See you’re starting to get it. Don’t feel so bad that you were wrong (though calling the OP “dumb” wasnt nice especialy given how ignorant your comments have been) . A lot of people didn’t know about the electoral college. I’m glad to be able to educate you
no need to thank me, pushes me to learn more. So THANK YOU for your persistently wrong comments

john

“Send me an adres where Trump asks for a violent protest or for invading the capitol.”

sure. though I’m not sure what you mean by “adres” The rally was planned for weeks, there were calls for violence on twitter for weeks Including storming the capitol and having a firing squad for Mike Pence
On 12/19/20 Trump tweeted “…Be there will be wild”

On January 7 (when the outcome was inevitable) and people were in Washington for the planned for violence, what did he do. did he protest the result but encourage calm like a normal person?
No of course not, he hates the country far too much for that, instead he further inflamed his supporters and threw his loyal VP on the bus by demanding of him an act he had to have known was illegal and impossible. Naturally this further inflamed the masses

The crown shouted “”Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump! Fight for Trump!”” – remember the crowd that arrived planning violence. What did Trump do, did he urge peaceful protest.? No of course not He said “Thank you” and He further inflamed tensions with “We will never give up. We will never concede.” “Our country has had enough. We will not take it anymore, and that is what this is all about.”

AFTEr the rioting started Trump still Encouraged them calling them ““These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly treated for so long,”” before telling them to go home
These are not the words of someone who condemns violence .

compare his speech before to his concession speech. THAT was a normal speech. compare the difference in tone.

Note there was no real practical change that occurred Jan 6-7 in Congress. The result wanted in doubt. The change is Trump relaized his legacy is now in tatters with even the GOP saying he should be removed.

It isnt the media. The GOP senate understood Trump’s speech for what it was . IF you think all of them, all the rioters, and all of us got it wrong, and only you and a few others understand how poorly misunderstood innocent Trump was. Then I don’t know what to say

hope this helps

Health as you know
That report was widely discreditedand Ramsland has proven himself unreliable (couldnt keep his states straight)

that said. I’m not interested in debating wehther or not fraud occured. As your mind is made up, and no ammount of evidence would convince you.

Although it is possible that this silly disregarded claim was the kraken Powell had promised. so I guess I can’t fault you for not willing to concede that she lied. since arguably she provided evidence.

You did call me a liar when I said her court case would never be heard. So we will have to wait for that.

Participant

“that has absolutely nothing to do with wether or not trump had an invented deadline for potential evidence”

This was never the topic at hand

That you thought it was is on you

“your boiling my blood up. ”

To quote you “refua sheleima.”

See I read your posts. Every one of them. you misunderstood the topic don’t understand the US election and are nasty to whit. Read a little about the election, read my posts. And I will always take the time to explain it to you. Yes even “over and over and over…”

“I didn’t post their names because of Copyright Laws.”

There is no copyright law that prevents anyone from sharing the name of a book where something can be found .
If there were every book with footnotes would be violating copyright laws. In fact the reverse is true. IF anything citing source protects you from a copyright violation

I’m sorry for the digression. We don’t have to get distracted from thsi excellent thread. Lets keep our excellent discussions separate.

“did you ever treat a MVA victim in the street?!?”
no.

Now your turn When would you grantthat Powell lied Jan 20? Jan 2022? are we going to wait till she retires? dies?

Health

“Why do you keep doing this?”
curious if you are able to. This is what draws me to YWn. Arguing over things with 2 different valid views is less interesting to me.

Here we have a person who unquestionably lied. she said she would release here evidence on dominion “soon”. soon has passed, she didnt release evidence so she lied. PEriod easy

to most people no big deal.
Then you have people who can look at black and say white who can make up non-existent EMS protocols Who can say their inauguration rally was the largest ever. who can make up supreme court cases. who can say Trump didn’t incite a mob against the capitol. I find it fascinating .

I’m not even sure what you lose by saying “yes she lied” that doesn’t mean there was no fraud, it isnt really conceding anything. She might even have the evidence, but hasn’t released it when she said she would “soon” (yes she doesn’t have to, but she said she would and didn’t that is a lie)

“She is going to SCOTUS ”
Again, no she isnt. My question is when would you concede that Jan 20? Jan 2022? are we going to wait till she retires? dies?

Amazing

what a cult
There is no evidence that can change your mind. sure We can rpovdie tweets from Trump and pronouncements from him and supporters calling for violence

But you will deny they say what they say (“wild” doesn’t mean wild it means calm protest right?) Trial by combat means demonstration

If that fails claim they are fake tweets planted by the media
IF that fails just say he /they were in on it .

Whcih is fine. I dont intend nor think I can chaneg your mind

Edited

sostop pretending your mind is made up and thats that .

johnklet

“and a lot of people will regret voting him out of office, just give it a couple of months…”

I think the opposite is true. In time (more than months at least years) people will deny ever having voted for him. People will look back at his presidency with embarrassment. That isnt to say there wasn’t some good, but that will be dwarfed by Corona, and more so by his exit. It is hard to downplay what happened yesterday

People who dont know much american history might know some tidbits like The British burned the whitehouse during the war of 1812. A century from now , people will know a Trump instigated mob stormed the Capitol in the hopes of overturning an election.
sure a few history buffs will know that Trump did some good like move the embassy I can hear it now “Really the crazy guy who tried to instigate a insurrection? I never would have guessed”

CY

“he could have left with dignity instead he had instigate his people to rush the Congress, ”

This was predictable. And no he couldn’t leave with dignity that isn’t who he is.
Its a bit confusing that people expected him to change . People don’t change this late in the game. Many of my friends and posters here have been confused how we cant support Trump who has been so good for XYZ. hopefully now you understand

Health

any updates?

Where do things stand.

Was she lying?

Are we waiting for Jan 20?
Do you still think she is going to the Supreme court?
Are we waiting until she settles with dominion or gets ruled against in court for her baseless allegations?

Thanks

“I am rather confused, and id appreciate if someone can explain it to me, why a video trump put out, telling everyone to go home peacefully, had him banned from social media. (i didnt get to see the video myself…)”

Happy to explain

The Presidnet has to respect the rule of law. It is ok to think you won and to call for recount, courtcase etc. The problem is Trump doesnt care about the rule of law. He cares about Trump . He said there was cheatign before the election took place. He did the same in 2016 he did the same during the primaries (see his tweet feb 3 2016)

As you know many people believe him, at this point he is unhinged turning against his own VP who just wants to follow the constitution (which clearly Trump hasnt glanced at) . Trump encouraged “marching on the capitol” he knew what would happen. It took him quite some time to tell “protesters to go home”

The senate is going to vote on the objection. The odds of the objection passing one house let alone both are zero. Do you think for a second Trump will say “I’m disappointed with the outcome, but Democracy has spoken” OF course not he will yell names and sow more discord.

As for the video, hint he ame video he encourages them “reitzes them uhn” saying they cheated their stealing the election etc .

Enough already
You lost, You got a recount , lost again. Got court cases lost all of those. At some point he’s got to shut up

Twitter is right to silence him
Their only mistake is not having done so months ago WE would all be in a better place

TVP
“. He meant it when he said it, and he said it with a purpose.”

meant what exactly? what it it

Yes of course he said it with a purpose, a purpose of inclusivity. Not sure whats wrong with that.

Lehavdil elef alfei rivvovos havdolos when We chazal say “halichos olam lo al tikri halichos eleh halachos” Are they “canceling” the word halichos. Do they not know what halichos means Ch”v they are teaching a lesson.

That is all he meant a message on inclusivity, I thought it was silly. You do to thats fine.

What do you think he meant?

“its the fact that a standard word was “cancelled” for not being “inclusive”…”

Oh o it was cancelled? too bad No shul I’ve been in over the past days got that memo.

“this is just ridiculous….”

It is, so many right wingers getting all bent out of shape over a (admittedly dumb) pun.

“but it seems your support extends to social issues as well, HOW??”

I cant speak for all but supporting a candidate doesn’t mean you agree or support all their positions.

Once upon a time Trump supporters said the same “I dont agree wit him on xyz but he’s better than Hillary, or but Supreme court or but ISrael”
granted some shift has taken place over the past months and most of them are all in on the crazy train supporting all sorts of nutty ideas, just because “their guy” said it. but it wasn’t always this way and it shouldn’t be this way

The fact that you even have this question is telling

UJM

“ubiq, you obviously didn’t read the first citation I posted on the Lawfare site.”

sure did! You provide great sources!

Though not really an article more musings of a professor, musings are fine , keep sharing

But arent “proof”

and the the second more exhaustive article doesn’t -at all – raise the ideas you are using it t buttress

TVP

“I don’t see what is wrong with trump requesting the secretary of state of Georgia uncover them.” There wouldnt be, but that isnt what he said. Trump doesn’t care about illegal votes, that isnt what this is about at all.

What he says was “‘I just want to find 11,780 votes’”

If he said “look I suspect irregularities and granted we had dozens of cases and almost 2 months to find evidence of it, and I still cant find significant evidence but I really really think its there please make sure the vote is done right “. That would be another story, but that isnt what happened

Health

“S. Powell actually wrote in her brief that the Court should consider the case before Jan. 6″

yes I know what she wrote. and I said she wouldn’t get her case heard

Here is an exchange we had

Health – ” but her case wasn’t heard yet by SCOTUS!”
Ubiq – “I’t wont be.”
Health – Ok; you say she’s Lying. So the cases she filed are King vs. Whitmer 20-815, & In Re Pearson 20-816. Ok – she isn’t Lying – You are! Now why would you lie? Are you Afraid she’ll win those cases?!?”

She wont be having a case

she wont be releasing any evidence
she lied when she said she would “soon” (it is past soon even if she ends up releasing anything now)

all that is old news and was known to most for almost 2 months

what is no knwon is if those who beleived her leis, will be able to say “wow she WAS lying”

Stil remains to be seen. We gave it till Jan 20 so theres still time

NEw (related Question

on Jan 6, when (not if) Pence doesn’t acknowledge any “alternate ” electors and certifies A Biden presidency (perhaps after some needless time wasting by a group that puts party over country at every turn) Would that at all make you question your understanding of the process? What ifs your lanned “explanation” for why he won’t install Trump?

ujm

““open all the certificates”.”

Correct

“Regarding whether the Senate president can be required to present or not present any particular paper submitted as a states electoral college vote, concurrent action by both houses would settle the matter while disagreement between the houses would see the Senate president’s decision upheld.”

Interesting source regarding the requirement to PResent (year wasnt even close….)

Still doesn’t really help your case. Even if required to read any purported ballots (which would require Both houses to concur or one plus himself according to the source you cite)
He STILL does not get the power to choose which to accept.

His job is solely to open them and read them . He does not have the power to object or choose one over another

If he did have this magic power 1. SOMEBODY would’ve used it by now 2. It would be mentioned n the excellent article you cite someplace over the course of its 131 pages it would mention that BTW the Vice President has sole discretion in choosing whcih electors he likes. ITs not there because he doesn’t have this power

In fact it says the opposite (pg 634 ) “The ECA’s procedural provisions have two purposes. … The second is to drain away as much power as possible from he Senate President, whom the ECA appoints to preside at the joint session when Congress counts the votes”

In other words the VP (President of the senate ) has essentially NO power over the determination

ujm

(follow up to pending comment)

In fact Louie gohmert is trying to get The Electoral count act thrown out as unconstitutional. (that is the subject of this thread!) And get Pence to be the final arbitrator. The ACt you cite is the very law that clearly PREVENTS Pence from acting wily nily (Not that he necessarily could do what he wanted before the Act was signed, but the constitution is vaguer which resulted in 1876 problems so while ALL your comments on this thread were wrong in 1886 (before the electoral count became law) you could TRY to make a case. After the Electoral count act there isnt even room for discussion