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Sorry AZ
That was my minor Kasha and i dont view it as sufficently answered but I do see how you dont view it as a question. So further discussion on that point is futile.
Thank you AZ.
What was the growth rate then?
PBA
I dont know since i have never discussed this with admissions commitee.
Here are my two cents Touro is viewed as worse than other colleges. I’m not saying it should be but it is. That being said would a BETTER GPA from touro be better than a lower one from say Brooklyn, (Princeton?)could certainly be, probably depends on the difference. (Though if what ytrwewq says is true, why would it be easier to get a higher GPA from touro, and if it is easier to get the higher GPA, there is your answer as to why it is looked down upon).
You say “far better positioned across the MCAT scale”, The MCAT is the great equalizer and would probably be given more weight from a less known college. How can you compare a 4.0 from touro to a 3.5 from PRinceton? By looking at their MCAT scores. In such a scenario it will be given more weight not less.
Also a few more points to the OP
1)Extracurricular are importnat Theres no need to go crazy, but you do need to show you have some interest in medicine and have an idea what medical field is like. Shaddow a Doctor, volunteer a bit at a hospital etc. You have time to worry about this since you havent even begun undergrad yet, but dont wait to the last minute. This will also give you something to discuss on interviews.
2) Be prepared to discuss what you have been doing over the past 7 years or so. Many academics do appreciate studying for its own sake, but spiritual betterment of the world may be a tough sell. Just be prepared to many it may sound like youve been slacking unless you carfeully frame what youve done. For obvious reasons admissions comittee’s abhor slackers
3) Read lopman24’s post above, his tone is harsher than I wouldve put it but I agree with all he wrote.
4) I cant stress this enough be flexible
5) It can absolutely be done
friends who have been down that route. (I didnt go to touro)
touro is a huge strike against, though not a fatal one.
To be clear i am saying what Health said “If you would not CONSIDER moving from the tri-state area. I would reccomend against pursuing medical school” This is assuming ANY undergraduate program.
If you are limiting yourself to touro AND plan to limit yourself to the trisate area, please please don’t!
Your dream is certainly possible and achievable and if it is what you want it will be well worth it! But you absolutely must be flexible/open minded for it to work. Of course this may not be possible when married and have children, you have to be realistic. If you can be flexible go for it!
PBA
I wouldnt say fine, though there is hope.
I would say dont bother if you are only willing to consider the 15 or so MD schools in the tristate area.
coming fro touro you absolutly must be willing to broaden your horizons, consider smaller jewish communities, DO schools or Israel.
If you can not consdier those possibilities please please dont follow that path
Mameleh
no because For that girl entering kindergarden there is another boy who entered kindergarten four years earlier.
Look If you say there always were 10% of girls who never got married but what changed is the number of girls included in that 10%, which has increased drasticly over the past 30 years, I would disagree but at least i’d here where they(you?) were coming from. Although the numbers havent actually changed, the number of people affected has to the point that now it is a “crises”.
Are you saying that 30 years ago 10% of girls didn’t get married?
If not what changed:
1) Age difference between couples
2) Less year to year increase in population(or rather I suppose over 4 years, though not 30 years as AZ and DY are saying that is irrelevant)
3) Something else
I say 3, and have discussed at length what I believe 3 to be.
I have a few follow ups to save a few posts, if you so please.
If you say 2 what was the yearly increase then. (The data provided by DY/AZ/NASI says 4% currently)?
If 3, what do you believe the change to have been?
DY
But for each individual couple dating there is no discernable difference in family size unless the 60 year olds date the 30 year olds. In that case, yes I’d accept that on average 60 year oldscome from smaller families than 30 year olds. It is absurd to say that the family size difference between 24 year olds dating 20 year olds is today is vastly different than 24 year olds dating 20 year olds 30 years ago.
Lets plug in years which may help you:
currently boys born in 1989 are dating Girls born in 1993. Is there a different in their family sizes? Lets say there is. Let us call this (a)
30 years ago, in 1983 (when there was no talk of a crises) Boys born in 1959 were dating girls born in 1963. Was their a difference in their family sizes sure! LEt us call this (b)
Did families increase since from 1963 to 1993? Sure! But that is compltly irrelevant to the discussion at hand The people born to the larger 1993 families are not dating those born to the smaller 1963 families.
What matters to us is the difference between (a) and (b).
The only family growth that matters to our discussion is the family growth between the years 89′- 93′ vs 59′ – 63′. These are tow seperate subsets that are not marrying each other thus any family change between 63′ and 93′ is irrelevant. Are you saying that Families in 93 were bigger compared to 89′ as opposed to families in 63′ not being as big compared to families in 59′ in other words are you saying that (a)>> (b)?
year to year? No it doesnt.
over 4 years? (the age disparity between couples upon which this discussion is based)also not.
So basically no family size has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Sure if 60 year olds where marrying 30 year olds there would be a huge problem. But when 24 year olds marry 20 year olds, if there hasnt been a problem when 30 years ago when the 24 & 20 year olds came from smaller familes, there shouldnt be a problem now. (although again, the same problem would appear bigger now, but youd have to assert that unless something else changed, 30 years ago 10% of girls remained single like you claim today)
first of all you have to consider whether you are willing to relocate. Especially With a degree from touro you have to be open to the possibility of medical school in Chaifa/Tel aviv or at the very least not in the tri state area. Also do not overlook DO schools.
If you would not CONSIDER moving from the tri-state area. I would reccomend against pursuing medical school
(Of course residency you would have the same thing all over again)
AZ
I missed that point when you made it, My apologies, had I caught it I would undoubtedly have pointed out the absurdity of that statement.
Smaller families wouldnt affect percentages. Are you saying 10% of girls (or whatever you claim the current percentage to be) remained single 30 years ago, and all that has increased is the number of people that represents?
According to the stats you/NASI/DY/ Dr. Halpert (I dont remember whom exactly to credit but you all seem to agree) The population increase year to year is 4%. Of course over 30 years this leads to bigger families. But year to year the situation 30 years ago wouldve been the same as today unless the year to year growth shifted drastically. Is that what you are saying happened?
If so when did this occur? And do you have any data to back it up?
(again I am not asking about family sizes since that has no bearing whatsoever on our discussion)
miritchka,
It was never exact so it was always possible to have been a day off. That being said the calendar isnt perfect since even tekufas Rav Ada (which is used to sync 12 lunar mnths with approximatly with a solar calendar 365 days 5 hours 55 minutes and change) is still slightly longer than the actual solar year of 365 days 5 hours 46 minutes and change. Thus over time the Jewish months are inching slightly forward relative to the Solar months/seasons.
With enough time Pesach will no longer be in chodesh haaviv and will be in the summer then fall then winter no doubt we will once again be mekadersh with reiah upon moshiach’s arrival long before this becomes a problem
Nothing changed in the year 2000 in this regard
No problem, change my 15 above to 30
DY
Im not admiting it defies logic. Im pointing out that all the math in the world can not change facts on the ground. And the facts are that somehow in spite of an “age gap” there was no shiduch crises 15 years ago. Period.
You can disagree with the facts (which youve sort of done but with some hesitation in defining what exactly has changed) However to say the facts can not be true becuase they defy math is silliness
In other words I guess what I am saying is that real life doesn’t always follow math. Sometimes in life 2+2 can equal 5. Facts cannot just be ignored becuae of math. The odds of your having been born are infinitesimally small (Think of all the people in all generations who had to meet whose exact sperm of millions had to combine with the right egg, over generations and generations.) Based on math I have proven you dont exist! Yet here we are. (granted not the best mashal, perhaps the pizza reply was better). At a certain point reality has to be taken into account.
Now if the age gap demographics have existed (you insist that something changed but arent sure what, fine. But I am certain nothing has and until presented with evidence to the contrary, see no reason to change that view.) and yet their was no “shiduch crises” any math you or Dr. Halpert want to introduce has to placed aside in favor of the overwhelming anecdotal evidence. How did all those 1000’s of excess older girls get married? I dont know (we outlined possiblities earlier but it doesnt matter for this point.) They somehow did. That is all that matters. Therfore in addressing the current “crises” new factors that DID NOT exist then are what need to be studied not old factors taht have not changed.
DY
but if youve been ordering 2 + 2 pies for years and years and consistently been geting 5 pies. You have proven that the store has a funky policy of sending an extra pie when pizza are ordered in that combination. In other words that may in fact be the norm in that store. As little sense as it may make mathematicly, after all We all know 2+2 doesn’t equal 5. Yet in this case, at that pizza store, in a very real sense it does!
Is it absolute proof? Of course not. ( obviously It is possible that for years and years you have had the same hard of hearing delivery man, but at a certain point you would agree that it isn’t likely). it cant just be ignored as “anecdotal facts”
DY I would also like to point out in regard to point number 1, a few posts earlier you said “As has been amply demonstrated, that’s a false argument.”
you now say “I am not at all uncertain that 1) is false; I just don’t know which of the three parts to the equation changed.” You can hardly call that ample demonstration.
DY
Weve covered that to.
It takes away from the real issue. when i point out to people the two points outlined above as to why the age gap is not the cause. Even after a while spent convinving them that this is true. And that simply “closing the gap” will not, nor can it, help. The best I get is Hmmm lets deal with that later and focus on silly age gaps now.
This is not helpful (and potentially harmful)and certainly draws attention and resources (not just financial) away from addressing the real more fundamental issues at hand
1 has nor been demonstrated, amply or otherwise. (az made a few guesses he wasn’t really sure and you were less certain, is that the ample demonstration you mean)
2 see above.
The numbers if they turn out to be a problem in spite of not having been a problem in the past can be dealt with AFTER the more immediate dating divide is solved
It would even the playing field than in of itself is a worthy maaleh. ESPECIALLY if girls were at a disadvantage already as a result of a “age gap” The girls who say yes may have a leg up on the other girls on boys list.
Again though this is just an idea and not my main point. Feel free to disagree with it, I thik it would help, if id doesn’t nu nu.
This discussion is going in circles and ha gotten off track.
It began with MOP saying we all know the sidduch crises is a result of the “age gap”
I replied that we don’t all know that for two main reasons: 1) The age gap isn’t new and yet the shiduch crises is. and 2) The age gap doesn’t explain the dating divide.
All other discussion as to what should be done or what I think is the real cause are side issues that you have been getting to caught up in.
You believe evening the playing field wont help? Fine lets keep artificially giving boys and unfair advantage. That isn’t my point anyway.
Getting rid of the upperhand we artificially assign boys by insisting only they go first
Mamaleh
There are plenty people available. If the numbers were reversed and 112 girls vied over 100 girls. If we give each guy a list if 10-20 girls like we currently do and prevent girls from initiating, the same silly criteria would be used in picking.in other words regardless of the global statistics, for each boy there are a seemingly endless number of girls. So the total number doesn’t really affect each individual.
DY
I suggested a few ideas, take away the upperhand we unfairly give boys. Provide more venues to date so as to get more dates to more girls. There are others some of which willl meet with more resistance than others, but all of which might actually help
Interjection,
Agreed and that is part of the problem.
Az
Calling it silly doesn’t make it less true. DY provided a nice post by a phd outling the age gap theory. In it the author identified the problem as many girls suffering from infrequent dating. DY (and yourself I thougt) agreed with this but contended that it wasn’t as worth focussing on as the marriage issue or that it to us a result of the age gap. I never saud girls dont get any dates. All I said was there is a dating divide unexplainable by the age gap, that is causing the “shiduch crises”
DY
As to silly criteria here are but a few. Color of father’s shirt (recent yated shiduch forum), the old cliches plastic table cloth etc, yichus, where in Europe the ancestors were from, demanding full support, age (this may be what has been confusing you, age is a factor but not THE cause), grandmother pushing a wagon, premature infant (recent ami column) etc.
This is what has changed in the past 15-20 years and what is causing the “crises” Not demographics that hasn’t changed
DY
A. Of course some boys will marry girls already in shiduchim as they allways have. It is not like their has been a mass shift in age disparity among couples. Make dating less rigid, remove obstacles int he way of girls getting dates and nature will take its course as it has in the past resulting in more girls getting dates and thus married than today.
C. I agree. Though my point is even in a “closed game” where only 112 players are vying over 100 seats. And the doors are locked. It still would be an advantage to make the game as fair as possible (giving the deaf players hearing aids, the slower players boosters so they can run the same speed. Sure 12 players will be left standing, though I think its making the game fair is a worthy goal. (again though I dont think this is comparable since in real life the doors arent closed)
DY.
I’ll address your points in order:
A. No but chairs (and players) are constantly added so as long as we try to level the playing field and keep the game fair most players will end up with a seat eventually. True sine never will but sadly this was allways the case, but the current “crises” will be gone.
B. See above. Plus addressing fairness is better than nothing. I don’t think the age gap will get more girls married since it cannot explain the “dating divide” tm.
C. No gaurantee, just a way to even things. The hope is when a guy has a list of girls that “look the same on paper” some can stand out by saying yes first.
Brony
You’ve misunderstood. Im not saying to let the girls go first, merely to level the playing field to let either side go first. We have to try to level the field as much as possible removing the unfair advantage one group has.
Even if the numbers were strictly true and 112 girls were being matched up with 100 boys. And these numbers would not change, ie no more players or chairs added to the mix. It STILL would be right to let each side go first to at least give all 112 girls a fighting chance (although in that fake scenario 12 girls would still be left standing, at least the game is fair) This has been addressed before think of it as 12 girls who are hard of hearing, the game of musical chairs will not be fair no matter how many chairs are added unless the issue of their hearing is addressed as well. Granted if ONLY the hearing is addressed 12 girls will still be left standing, but at least the game is fair.
Granted this may be complicated, but it has been addressed at length already.
I don’t hink this will end the crises. I do know that the “age gap” alone is not the cause (nor can it be) thus dealing with it alone can not possibly solve anything.
DY
” theoretically be true “
whohoo progress!!!
PBA
I would add a few kneitches. Think of it as some less comfortable chairs in the mix. These chairs do not stand a chance. Unless the chairs can call out and say “Hey I’m right here and available, don’t bother dancing around all the chairs trying to find an available one just sit here” Then at least all the chairs have a chance.
(I know it is a silly mashal, but I wasn’t the first to bring in musical chairs, which is silly to begin with as has been discussed)
DY both. Plus It will get people married quicker
Brony,
I’ve been explaining at leangth, the shiduech crises us often described as many women suffer from “infrequent dating” in other words there is a dating disparity this can not be explained by a age gap since even if 100 guys are dating 112 girls, each guy goes out with more than one girl. Thus there is an excess of dates available not a shortage! Yet many girls are not getting dates. Granted not all girls can get married if those numvers were rigid and stagnant, but they should all get dates.” The “dating divide” tm can’t be explained by the “age gap”. And leveling the playing field between guys and girls MAY help those girls who suffer from “infrequent dating” (in spite if their being enough dates available) by helping them avoid just having to sit there waiting/davening to get picked.
DY,
” I’m not sure what you want with the rest of your post. Will these things create more boys, hence more demand?”
No they will create more dates hence more weddings.
You can call it a mantra or whatever you like that doesn’t make it less true.
There are enough dates for all girls please understand this crucial point. Dating us not done 1:1.
Brony,
Don’t get caught up on specifics. Evening the yes playing field is but one idea.
I’m curious though, how do you think you debunked it?
DY
It was you who first mentioned supply and demand. There is no shortage of dates available and yet many girls suffer from “infrequent dating” despite their being a mire than adeqyete supply.
As to what can be done to end the crises, pretty much anything that takes away the upperhand we currently give guys (example let women say yes first instead of limitibg it to men, stop perpetuating the idea that 10% of girls are doomed not to get married). These are simpler ideas.
More complex ideas that would meet more resistance but would get more girls dates, and thus more girls married are increasing venues to allow nous and girls to meet. For example encouraging meals with similar boys and girls thus in effect granting each girl at the meal a “date” with several compatable guys at once.
DY,
No you are very confused and your last post highlights your confusion. Do not fret though I am happy to explain.
Supply and demand works both ways in dating. There is an excess of guy dates available. 300 for every 112 girls according to the numbers you provided. According to the laws of supply and demand. unless some artificial factors were in play. All girls should have more than one date. Yet they do not thus there are artificial barriers in place preventing some girls from getting there fair share of dates.
I do agree with AZ that some girls married boys younger than they. Newsflash many still do. Though it is not less common now than in the past So in no way does this explain why the “shiduch crises” is more pronounced now. The “age gap” as an explanation to the “shiduch crises” is hogwash with nothing but anecdotal evidence to back it up. and doesn’t even explain the “dating divide” (TM you heard it here first)
If we come up with ways to remove artificial barriers that prevent gitrls from getting dates, more will get dates. And perforce more will get married.
DY
You are putting the cart before the horse.
Going through the dating process, first girls must get dates. The “age gap” can not explain the “infrequent dating” this has been explained at leangth.
I agree there is a chance that the “age gap” will still prevent some from getting married. (Though I doubt it, don’t forget the number of people “in shiduchim” constantly changes) but solving the “age gap” will do absolutely nothing for those suffering from “infrequent dating.” There aRE ENOUGH DATE SAVAILABLE FOR THEM. Please Please understand this point. There are enough dates for all girls to get almost as many dates as their friends. If some girls suffer from “infrequent dating” This is in no way shape or form due to the “age gap” and thus will not be resolved by focusing on the “age gap”
I really don’t know why this is confusing you
DY
I was agreeing to semantics. The substance is hogwash. Even AZ doesnt actually beleive it,
FACT: The demographics were the same. PEriod. And youhave never said otherwise. You didnt know what changed, and asked my question to AZ yourself earlier. Now the question is why is there a “crises” Now and not then.
(Granted My assertion is based on anecdotal evidence, but hey so is the entire NASI project)
It was YOU in your zeal to cover up the truth that brought up a Nes, and you may be right, buit I dont know where you got it from that that was my argument.
I have a rational approach, the style of dating has changed over the past years and with it a “crises” evolved.
Who did those “extra” girls date? I dont know maybe boys their age or younger. Maybe dinasours. Maybe if dating isnt so rigid people find spouses on their own, as long as, and here is the kicker, they have dates!
Throwing more boys into the mix will not help if girls arent getting dates in the first place
Also DY,
On your imaginary planet it us a mathematical truism that the dating demographics changed?
DY
why would I when that is clearly false.
I agree with the rigidity/conformity issue
AZ
I wrote my previous reply before yours went up.
Thank you for your reply
B. Is EXACTLY what I have been saying all along. Boy am I glad we can agree. My only question would be why not try to undo the changes you mention in B> This is what I have been suggesting.
Thanks again for replying though, your put up a good fight but it is nice to see we agree.
id wish you good luck in your efforts but I think they would have a terrible effect so I cant do that, but I do wish you best of luck in having the outcome we both desire materialize , namely more simchos by yidden
AZ
Enough of your games You have not attempted to address my question. please tell me what changed. DY outlined it nicely above In order for your “theory” to hold any water you must either assert that 1. People used to marry closer in age. 2. There was minimal population growth year to year or 3. The “crises always existed. (or 4. The percentage of boys born then was a lot higher than today)
If none of these statements are true the “age-gap” can’t be the cause of the “crises”
If you don’t know, or are afraid where the answer will lead you, just man up and say so. Please avoid vague responses that “the numbers were not imbalanced.” Please tell me what changed. This is very relevant because if none of these changed (which I belive to be the case btw, and from your reluctance to reply I take it that you do to)then your “age gap” simply cant be the cause.
DY
Wow ok. Thanks for replying. (Though I wouldn’t consider a 12% gender discrepancy anything remotely resembling reality)
Though if you please, and again this is hypothetical since you provide such convincing alternatives, what if the gender disparity remained the same, and people married women a few years younger, and generations grew year to year, and there was no crises. Would you consider changes in dating as possibly being a cause?
DY
1.Things weren’t as rigid, don’t get too hung up on who gets to pick first, that is but one example.
2. Even if (and again, this is hypothetical) there were recent changes in place that made getting a date a much more complicated process than in the past. Im not sure what you mean by higher birth rate than the population, how would that change anything if (hypotheticly) It was the same male birth rate as in the past but now with a crises?
DY
first of all you’ve broken it down wonderfully, kudos!
Now I have two questions (short ones)if you so please
1)which of the three facts do you think is wrong? (I suppose could be more than one)
2)Hypothetically If all 3 facts magically turn out to be correct, would you accept that the age gap is not THE fundamental cause of the “crises”?
Az, I’m sorry was there a question there for me to answer? Id be happy to explain any point to you. I don’t run from challenging questions nor do I shrug them off as “not questions” without actualy replying.
This has been going in for four pages, I am eagerly awaiting a (adequete?) Reply to my question what exactly according to your age gap theory changed that we now have a crises? Or did we always have a crises?
Part of my point is the numbers have been imbalanced in the past (if you disagree, well what exactly changed) and yet no crises. We can discuss how it us possible, but it clearly is.
DY,
A few points,
1. I don’t know, but it worked in the past
2. First let’s get all girls dates THEN marriage. Focusing on marriage while ignoring the “infequent dating” won’t help and us putting the cart before the horse
AZ
Finally!
Yes to both 1 & 2
Not sure if you know this but there are people who were alive 15-20 years ago who can be asked about dating practices then.
The “Theory” I was referring to is B though I’d stick in main factor. It may play a minor role but hardly the main cause.
I am very excited to hear the pircha, since if it is good would knock of one of my two holes in the “age gap theory”
The other being the fact that the age-gap doesn’t explain “infrequent dating” Though this point has sort of been addressed. My other question as to how unchanged demographics can explain a new problem, was one you were afraid to tackle… until now?
I am really excited, good luck!
Thank you Mamaleh,
now my previous comment which hasn’t yet gone up seems silly because I patiently explain to AZ what you meant. Well no matter, since obviously you can do a better job.
Thanks again
AZ
youre funny, youre (deliberetly?) taking her quote out of context. Her point isn’t cause and effect, rather she first emntions “Most shadchanim by Chasidim suggest the shidduch first to the party regardless of gender. It just happens to be that girls are asked first in their current dynamic.
don’t have the money and advertising clout NASI has, and anyway they wont be successful anyway (Thank God since it wouldn’t help the “crises” and would create new problems).
No I don’t think the system is this way because of NASI, I do think NASI worsens the problem by causing people to not consider other possibilities.
I don’t know why the chasisim go to both sides at the same time or to either side first. Anyway it doesn’t need an explanation since it is the more logical way to do it. As to why we do it this crazy way, It is to protect the feelings of girls since they now get rejected when their name is just on a guy’ list which is obviously less hurtful than when they put themselves out there by agreeing to go out with a guy already and then getting rejected.
Incidentally I love your funny approach to arguing, you only reply to my argument that pokes a hole in your “theory” once I agree your “theory” is correct. Strange but amusing.
I don’t get your “I guess you believe” line, do you think it was this way 15-20 years ago that the guy had to give the yes before the girl?
DY
No it doesn’t we have been through this. 300 dates should be enough dates for all 112 girls. (Again though not enough for 112 weddings) It does not explain why many “suffer from infrequent dating”
No demographics have not changed, yet the disparity was not the same. I’m curious though which component do you think changed was the population increase less? or were couples the same age?
I get that you don’t know, but you must have a hunch that is misguiding you, Im just curious which one it is
Az
Which part Of her observation do you think I am disregarding. I am happy to explain how it fits with the truth.
I cant change the system because misguided people have come up with a cutesy mathematical sounding explanation and have successfully terrified many into believing it that any attempt to point out how the “explanation” doesn’t fit with the reality (ie doesn’t explain the DATING DISCREPENCY, and why it hasn’t always existed) is met with hostility
(I’m not complaining about the hostility if you think you are right, by all means defend the truth,)
To be clear, This was clearer at the start but we have veered into a more narrow discussion. I am not saying the only thing that matters is who says yes first. The real problem is the entire rigidity of our recent dating system. The halacha that a guy must give the yes first is but one example, but try not to get too caught up on that.
Here is a useful rule of thumb: (for life too) When a complex problem is deemed to have an easy-quick-fix-solution, the simplistic solution will rarly solve the problem
Az
I never said girls have the upper hand.
All along I have been saying that Chasidim do not have the rigid guy says yes protocol that we have, and this levels the playing field thus easing alleviating any “crises” Mamelehs’ statment (which at first you seemed to accept) supports what I’ve said.
the rest of the first half is incomprehensible giberish. (The first part was wrong but comprehensible)
Why wouldn’t a one year gap create a crises, Shouldnt it leave 4% of chasidish girls unmarried? (or more if their growth rate is greater than the 4% commonly mentioned for yeshiva circles)
AZ
I agree there is no need to learn up what an anonymous poster said. You however are sticking a lot into his/her post. The takeaway is that the dating process among chasisim is not as rigid as amongst us. The casue effect you lay out and the one you attribute to me may or may not be true but it doesn’t change anything. The truth is it would be hard to ascertain which came first unles we can trace back to when one of the two began. (hmmm in which population CAN we trace back a new rigid dating process in which the guy goes first, and the start of a shiduch crises, never mind I know and Im pretty sure you do to).
The point is by chasidim it is not always the boy who picks girls from a seemingly endless list. This is what Ive been saying all along and mamaleh’s anonymous comment supports and you agreed (though Im ready for you to change your mind when you realize this point)
DY, that wasn’t mentioned in the comment you said I made up, and I never ever said that. I said age gap not significant, even a 1 yr gap should produce a crises.
Don’t hold your breath for a response from Az
AZ
not to worry. I already know why it is new and have been explaining it to you since the start of this discussion, and from the fact that you are afraid to discuss it makes it pretty clear that you do to, though you don’t want to acknowledge it since it throws a wrench in your “Theory”
Also you do realize mamale supports what I have been saying. That among chasidim the initial picking is not exclusively in the guys hands
Did you not get what (s)he said? Or have you not understood what I have been saying
You seem to agree with Mamale or now will you change your mind since his/her statement further dents your “theory”?
DY,
Now you’ve really confused me . Which fact did I make up? That chasidim don’t have a crises? Or That we didn’t 15 – 20 years ago?
DY it is becasue that is how our shiduch is set up. It is crazy and must be changed. It was not always this way and among chasidim it isnt this way either. This is why the “shidduch crises” is a recent phenomena and why it doesnt exist by chasidim
I have been saying this since the get go.