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You know, I fargin the vacationers. They may not be paying for their neighbors’ food but they may well be sponsoring them their tuition shortfall. Not enough info here.
Now if you were asking, look, I am extremely generous to local causes, and can also afford a generous vacation. Is it right of me to take that vacation because there are families nearby struggling? Different story. As the spectator, unless I were a rav, I won’t ask that question.
Oops. I see I didn’t respond to the original question. But I think a study of all the responses here may well answer the question of whether fargining is in someone’s nature or must be learned…
Back to the original question: yes, we definitely should fargin.
Meant to add, inyan’s with the leather.
As with the alarm clock, CYLOR but let me ask you: when you’ve looked for non-leather shoes for Yom Kippur, wasn’t comfort a factor? Does “inui” mean we have to find the most uncomfortable shoes?
Mamashtakeh, funny you bring up sandals because people used to wear sandals. Just check out one of Hanoch Teller’s book covers. (IIRC, It’s a Small Word After All.) Is it that people don’t wear sandals now because styles have changed, or because we have “evolved” in our understanding of what’s bekovedik? I wonder if other people out there would disenfranchise the bnei Torah of the 1930’s in their small brims and brown suits (or the bnei Torah of the ’70s and ’80s in their grey suits).
I think this topic is a bit of a crock.
Eh, Meyers, I could use the extra cash and inspiration, but maybe we use the time to cook, clean, do errands, take kids to the dr., volunteer, and all the other things we have to do? Oh, and maybe we go to shiurim, too.
Haqer, that may be but talking to someone out of the car is much more, even on a handless, is much more distracting than talking to someone in the car.
bsmiles, where do we get the 30 thou from? I would say, the same place one gets the money for support, but how about this: the kids take out loans, earn merit scholarships, etc.
Just me, the problem is, I think it’s too late now. In former times, the counselors WERE boys who could have sat and learned, but it was considered healthy for them, and good for the klal, for them to be counselors. Now, talking to my teenage boys, there is a feeling that the boys who are working “don’t have what it takes” or “aren’t cut out for more” learning-wise. This is disenfranchising wonderful boys who are only TEENAGERS. If they are learning well during the school year, have good middos and hashkafos, who’s to say that they don’t have what it takes for gadlus as they mature?
And our boys, even, or especially the top ones, lose out on the opportunity to hold down a job. And a job in camp, any position, will be so helpful for chinuch in their later years.
Years ago, actually not so many, the top boys from a major yeshiva were the ones who went to the nursing home erev Shabbos to play music and entertain. Now, if a boy learns an instrument some wonder what “issues” he has that he needs such an outlet. (I’d prefer to think he’s well-rounded, not a chisaron.)
Good going Dr. Pepper.
So who has the next chizuk story?
I’m not saying you don’t have some important points but re your first daughter: some months have more than 4 weeks, but with yom tov and vacations, some have less and it may actually work out to your daughter’s benefit. Am I missing something?
About the second, and utilities for the lights: that’s absurd. I would think that if the school had such a policy they were obligated to make sure your daughter knew when she asked permission to tutor.
I hope everything works out well, and thanks for sharing. We have learned from their experiences.
Willi, the problem with the E”Y comparison is that the American equivalent of moving to outlying areas means going beyond the tri-state area, like say, to Virginia, or the midwest and beyond. Are young couples willing to do that? Many American outlying communities are willing to help with relocation and job placement, but I don’t know if all the young couples in question would be comfortable with these communities.
The question is, how long has this minhag been around (and what is the mile minimum?)?
Unfortunately, or bochrim, even the thoughtful, thinking ones, won’t think it odd, if it’s been around long enough. Maybe it’s the same mindset that doesn’t question the ability of parents to be able to support after marriage. It’s accepted, it’s done, it’s doable.
Shmerel, when did it become the minhag? I guess I should be grateful it’s the chosson who pays (I have more girls 😉 but who’s to say the chosson’s family isn’t overstressed themselves, even with modest FLOP and their travel expenses?
OTOH, if abolishing this minhag will even further discourage boys from considering girls outside the tristate area then let it continue.
I was very disturbed when I first heard of this practice. Even a modest wedding, little or minimal support can stretch the girls’ parents to the limits. (You don’t mention who’s supposed to be reimbursing the boys.) OTOH having made our daughter’s chasunah near the chosson’s yeshiva, we see how much their presence enhanced the simcha. But back to the original hand: I wouldn’t want my son to take some pressured parents’ money to enhance their child’s simcha. I just wouldn’t. Usually there would be a good few months time to start making travel plans, check airfares, etc. to get the best deal.
Yoshi, I’m not offended by DMLevine on women in stores. Those are areas that I’ve noticed I have to be careful in, and try to. That said, I dress far from trendily, just something all women need to be aware of.
Frumee, I won’t say that you hit the nail on the head but you did bring up something important. I feel so fortunate to be far from the epicenter. I do a lot of thrift shop shopping, and I don’t find Burberry but do find Liz Claiborne and pretty “balabatishe” (never really got that word, but YKWIM)stuff to serve as a core of my wardrobe. My kids of course won’t do that, but I am proud of the decisions they make, on the whole, B”H. (That’s for you, my ladies, in case you did figure out my username 😉 And do check out DMLevine’s message and take it to heart.)
Cool. Which school was this address delivered at 😉
But seriously, most graduations I’ve been at have had other awards besides academic. I would definitely kvell if my child were to get the middos (or whatever given schools call it) award. And usually most schools have other opportunities for kids to shine – chessed, choir, yearbook, productions, etc. As for boys, I know that my sons’ yeshivos have always valued them for their sweetness, hasmada, sincerity, davening, etc., much more than their grades and lomdus.