tzippi

Listening to talk radio, there are two twains that will never meet:

Right wing – sure there’s enough blame to go around, and we can learn from this, but please, this was not Sarah Palin’s fault. The guy was sick.

Left wing – there is nothing to talk about. The blame is entirely on the right side, except for one teeny tiny offense Keith Olbermann’s already apologized for. And (direct quote from Randy Rhodes) don’t blame violence on mental illness! And another gem from RR (can’t remember who said what, her or a caller, though she offered the fascism definition and didn’t call the caller on the carpet): our demonstrations are peaceful. And yes, someone was dressed up as a fascist GWB but he IS a fascist, a fascist is someone who acts in a way that is in direct contradiction to the country’s interests.

bjjkid, here’s my take on it: when my oldest started shidduchim we realized we had to figure out what our approach would be to a shidduch with a divorced family. We decided that if it was difficult matzav – triangulation, abuse, e.g., far beyond the tough time while breaking up and adjusting – the younger the child was, the more likely we would be not to consider it. There is so much stress on a young couple we wouldn’t add to it. However, if the parents were mentschen, if they had their acts together to work in the best interests of the kids, and if the kid was well adjusted, no reason not to go ahead if all else checked out.

This last bit is important. Honestly, most people will have baggage. The question is, is it carry on, or seriously overweight? If the latter, sorry, the shidduch’s a no-go, however old the kids are. If the child’s well adjusted, but the family matzav is complicated, then an older single can decide, with our input, how much she can handle and if this is something worth pursuing.

No one should say that you should limit yourself to someone with an identical background. BUT it is very possible that your experience has given you extra depth and you might do well with someone who has his own story that transformed him. So don’t think right away that if someone’s suggesting someone for you who’s a bit off the beaten track that you’re both damaged goods.

OTOH, it is entirely possible for you to marry someone from a conventional background and stable family. I know for a fact that these shidduchim can happen. And BTW, we all know of so-called “nuclear” families that are downright nucular and ready to ex- or implode at anytime.

I think you’re getting a lot of good input here and food for thought. Take your time digesting!

Whocares, can you elaborate? When I grew up our shul had an elderly shamash who was given the job long, long ago, by friends who wanted to help him, long sad story; he lived in the attic.

bjjkid, are you referring to extravaganzas involving other people, and making sure it’s all on the camera, etc. for posterity? Or just, as SJS says, having the shadchan do it all?

I think that you underestimate how meaningful a dignified and private proposal can be. Iy”H by you.

As far as privacy, I think it’s fine for the shadchan to be involved to the extent of there being someone for the boy to ask, if I would ask her now would she freak out?

And – call me goyish – but I think the boy should ask the parents’ permission, even though if they’re going out that long, duh, it’s understood that he could ask at any point.

Mikehall, I’ve been to community internet asifos. Our community isn’t setting out to ban anything but to inform and empower, and encourage parents to have quality filters on the computer and to supervise.(Phones too.) Everyone who’s ever spoken says flat out not to let kids onto social networking sites, and it’s in the school handbooks too. After high school’s and into adulthood’s a different story.

Moderator 80/eggman/walrus, better stop before you lose your yeshivishe world news credibility…

Mint, I’m really curious: are you here on your own to spread the gospel, or do you have a mashgiach or rav who advised you to go on the internet to stop the shmutz?

Smoking and FB both scare me, but ultimately, like internet, it might be hard to avoid FB. Meanwhile, I stay away from both.

PBA, I’m not going to weigh in on kollel but re your line, “Hashem has enough money…”: when people are sick, of course they know Hashem is the ultimate Rofeh (there’s even a yehi ratzon to say before taking medication) yet they still engage in hishtadlus.

Where’s the line between bitachon and “ein somchin al haneis”?

New2thescene, the problem is that if a parent decides at date 3 to check the other side gets nervous, when all the parent wants to do is spare the kids heartbreak (and saving money isn’t inconsequential either, though very secondary). So there has to be an understanding among those who don’t check first (say the guy’s in town for a chasuna, or to see someone else, it didn’t work out but he still has an extra day) that no one will freak out if someone brings up DY.

whatrutalkingabt, evidently, according to PBA, being a size 4 or above carries the same or equally severe health risks, as smoking. We’ll leave aside the fact that for quitters there is a several year period till the risks seem to abate, even while dieters can see health improvement immediately. Details don’t matter.

I guess there is some value in this. Because as the world goes crazy we can look at the dots on each other’s foreheads, and at least know that we are a people who strive to help and improve life for others.

bjjkid, I suspect you are about a generation younger than I. I’m really curious. In high school and seminary, what would you say was given more weight: the role of the woman as mother and akeres habayis and facillitator of her husband’s learning, or the role of the woman as facillitator of her husband’s learning in kollel with lip service or no mention of her role in the family?

If you’re up to a homework assignment, I would be intrigued by your reaction to the article Chemotherapy as Metaphor (you can probably find it by googling).

For those who are just joining the coffee room, this is not a private exchange between someone named gavra at work and her husband (which is what most people think of when they see DH) but two posters named gaw and Derech Hamelech.

Hey, I’ll take comical over combatative any day.

I forgot that the community pays, and not the individual. Is that even if it’s a friend or someone else who makes the shidduch, not a community-connected pro? And what of the people who do a private shidduch and really don’t want the community people to know that they’re going out; they’d like to keep it quiet.

Again, I know of communities that have hired shadchanim. I’m curious how they operate. I really don’t think they require the families sacrificing their privacy if they don’t want anyone besides the two parties and the shadchan knowing.

Please, spell things out for us. We’re a bit thick, some of us.

Since AZ didn’t answer, I just got the current Yated; it was not one of the roundtable shadchanim. (Phew….)

AZ, why is 100 reasonable? This could add up. If it plays out the way you see it, it will add up because the girls will get more dates. (And if it’s just on the girls’ side surely no respectable shadchan will give a kickback, or token of his appreciation, to the boys he sets up. Because there is nothing in it for the boys as the boys can get dates easily.)

Let’s focus on a blog for parnasa.

You have to deal with the lack of privacy. There’s an interesting book, My Oprah Year, about a woman who I guess you could call a stunt journalist (check out A. J. Jacobs for more of the genre) who tried to stay anonymous and it reached a point where that was impossible.

Do you have a skill?

Do you have a funny idea? I saw a few books this year, Awkward Family Photos, and Cake Wrecks, that started out as a blog someone posted, more people sent in their own pictures, and soon it snowballed into a book. I have no idea how much these people have made off the books. (I saw a cute thing in Reader’s Digest, one of these little fillers, this one about misused quotation marks. Sure enough, it came from a book about quotation marks. )

Do you think you’re the next Erma Bombeck, or human interest columnist? I would tread carefully. Leaving aside the frum stuff, like lashon hara, it’s really hard not to draw on your personal life in personal, obvious ways, and not only do you not want to lose your privacy, but you don’t want to alienate people.

And hey, I’ll bet there’s a blog out there about blog start-ups.

I know of a community who hired a shadchan and they’re seeing excellent results! But I won’t tell you which community…

Good points, and some good laughs too. Personally, I am willing to cut people some slack; not everyone types as well, and considering people are posting from work, at the traffic stops, or otherwise in a rush there isn’t always time (or the motivation) to properly proofread.

APY: I wasn’t denying the facts that some girls will vegetate, I was simply saying that girls ARE encouraged to get a degree, whether a general college, online, a frum college, etc. I have seen numerous quotes to the effect that this makes them more marketable.

And as for giving names to the girls first, that’s already happening. The idea is, a boy(‘s mother) is presented with a hundred names. If twenty already said yes, those are the names that he (or his mother) will pay attention to.

I for one would feel better if, along with the promoting boys dating earlier, we were producing boys who are ready to get married, and not de facto institutionalizing yet another year of support.

I have no idea if I’m right but check the masthead, if there is one, over the past however long; I suspect the Frankfurters haven’t been on it for a while while they working on AMI. So it’s not like everything’s going to happen these last three or four weeks.

Kapusta says: Most non-Jewish stores won’t have CY cheese on sale.

Maybe most won’t, but all it takes is one in the frum community.

AZ, please, as soon as your hands are no longer tied, please let us know when this plan will be revealed to the broader olam. We are really plotzing.

My apologies. I was being quite serious.

Let me rephrase what someone else said if that wasn’t gentle enough: if this is a halachic inyan, CYLOR.

Well, AZ, as long as the shadchan doesn’t mind going by the community standards or that of the daters.