tzippi

Actually, I heard that Hava Nagila is a very heilige song. Check out its source.

Newsflash to havesomeseichel: there are working poor out of town too. And many of these cities really, really don’t need a third pizza shop. (Not a bad thing, nothing to do with the economy.)

Jothar, you’re right but…

Those studies are geared to kids, not adults. Separate educational venues that are practical, affordable, etc. are great but if an adult has no choice s/he should be able to handle mixed classes.

This thread has been hijacked (by the men). We’re not having a referendum on women working, let’s take that to the kollel thread. Women ARE working, whether to keep the men in kollel or because of a desperately needed second income, among other reasons, and this thread was started for support, especially practical.

But since we’re already off topic, I’ve got to disagree with Joseph. We have to focus on batei neeman. Of course we can’t have them without Torah at the core, but we can’t downplay how important it is for the women not to be bearing the entire burden. We have to see what our kids need.

I’m not trying to guilt any women here, just trying to put things in perspective. Let’s continue this on the kollel thread.

I googled “snopes revital avraham” and didn’t get any hits, yet I did find a reference to a coffee room mention of this girl, with the allegation that the poster checked Snopes and it’s true. YMMV.

Ronrsr: I agree. When I see kids who are starting to smoke, I think, fools, if only the people who could help them fill the void would, etc. but I only have rachmanus for confirmed somokers.

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Azoiis: I wrote, “significant minority”, not “insignificant minority.” As I said before, the gedolim have spoken and I will not belittle the problem.

However, I will take issue with distortions, exaggeration, and fear mongering.

Re the cherem: it was determined that marriage with two wives was not good for shalom bayis, hence the cherem. Az asserts that it is not good for shalom bayis to have older unmarried children, particularly daughters.

a) It is not INEVITABLE, or close to it.

b) It is also not good for shalom bayis to have financial problems. Ergo, we should consider abolishing kollel. (Just following the same logic.)

Haifagirl, I don’t think that’s the problem. The girls know enough about smoking – like lung cancer, second hand smoke issues for kids, etc. – to avoid smokers. The problem is the desperation being fomented that makes girls still opt to marry a smoker if it means getting married to SOMEONE and avoid being a statistic.

Re Wolfishmusings: I agree, the problem is the rest of the world. The boy may not be in a school setting that feels that way, etc.; and you can’t discount the possibility that there’s a subtext there of dealing with a real, imperfect world without getting disillusioned.

To Just a guy, what gets me nervous (and for some reason my comments aren’t going through on the homepage, despite repeated attempts at contacting via the homepage) is that there has apparently been a long term follow up and fear of selling out to Israel. This shows how Jews are viewed, for better or worse, true or not. And I have to wonder if similar efforts are made in other communities, vis a vis other countries (not necessarily so friendly).

Thanks, ICOT, I needed that.

I’m ambivalent about banning burkas myself, leaning towards NOT banning.

I’ve seen some women in “levush” a step or two down and it’s actually quite attractive, and they show their full faces. Clearly seeing the face should be law, at least for licenses.

Looking at the topics here should give you a good working list:

Colored shirts?

Brooklyn eruv?

Does s/he compliment?

Kollel?

etc.

To AZ: why not get paid for that, you ask.

There are sources, I’ve heard, for paying shadchanim. I remember one kallah, the day of her chasuna frantically making sure the shadchan was paid. I don’t know where or what the sources are. Are there sources for actually paying, and how much, if it doesn’t come through, other than a token out of sincere hakaras hatov?

That was Mrs. On ben Peles. But AFAIK we don’t pasken from a medrash. The source for covering hair is the sotah, where it says her hair was “paruah.” Some explain it to mean disheveled, as a basis for NOT covering hair. But to be consistent, even those people would wear hair in a more demure style, I would think. (I base this on an intriguing book whose title I forgot, by Lynn Schreiber, Aura Press.)

Is there any way we can post our daughters’ school (maybe anonymously, through a mod) to get a profile?

1) Is this for real?

1a) Is it mutar for men in white shirts to surf the net?

2) It’s become accepted (not mandatory, B”H) for bar mitzvah boys, who might be in 6th grade, and up to wear white shirts. Any younger is sadistic, for the boy, mother, society.

To Jax: thanks for both your responses.

I think that unless we have a generations long mesorah of levush (and even then…)what we have to emphasize is the need to daven “kempt” as opposed to unkempt – tucked in, laces tied. That is clearly understandable as kavod appropriate and necessary. If one’s son is doing that, and davening with kavana and sincerely, one is way ahead of the game.

When you ask someone experienced and wiser, make sure to include all details necessary – age, milieu, etc.

Rabbi Yakov Horowitz would also be a good person to contact.

May you, or whoever, see great nachas.

IR, if someone’s dealing with Crohn’s or colitis they probably should take it a step further and look into the specific carbohydrate diet, and the book Breaking the Vicious Cycle. (There’s a dot com website by the same name.) This is the “Crohn’s” diet. Some people with extreme celiac have found the diet helpful but for celiacs it’s recommended for life, and from what I’ve seen, not necessary for most people.

There is a kosher business in Monsey called Digestive Wellness that sells prepared foods and some basic ingredients, as well as a cookbook. The Weisses, who run it, are very helpful and l’shem shamayim, though there may be cheaper outlets for some of the ingredients, a lot of the products are for advanced dieters, and many people find it simpler and cost effective to make them themselves.

Personally, when I remember, I usually respond directly to someone by saying, To Ploni, or Re Ploni. Though if it’s someone I suspect I’m a bit older than, I’ve done it directly.

Dr. Pepper, in my time, a good quarter century ago, boys started dating at about 23, girls at 20 (2 years out of high school). There was presumed to be a similar level of maturity, sophistication, experience, what have you. People weren’t so focused on age. Or maybe my friends who set me up were all married to guys a few years older than they, I don’t know. All I know is, many of my friends and relatives (including older relatives) married guys 2 to 3+ years older than they.

AZ, the problem is that there are many issues the gedolim have commented on, e.g. takanos for chasanos, and there has not been uniform compliance. Many people have reservations about this. It is one thing to SUGGEST that one should try to date within the age range. But to MANDATE marrying within the age range, i.e. ONLY considering shidduchim within the age range, gives many people pause. It is social engineering, and requires a level of unity and maybe even ruach hakodesh, if not outright nevuah. No one wants to be the guinea pig.

There have been other suggestions as to how to pull this off, e.g. have boys coming back from E”Y at an arbitrary cut off date, regardless of where they are in their learning (and what if they don’t want to start dating that early, anyway?). The buzz gives many people pause.

Ames, gotta tell you, I’ve never spent a hundred on a pair of shoes either.

There’s going the extra mile, and there’s going overboard. There’s also inconspicuous consumption. But basically, most people can’t be that extravagant, especially if they’re not consistent in fulfilling their obligations (e.g. tuition) – reminds me of the mashal of the two brothers going to their other brother’s wedding, father sent money to the rich man to cover the costs of both the first brothers, etc.

Oomis, there is a going rate, but for the done deal.

To be paid by the hour is NOT a good idea.

To AZ: Ask some of these gedolim if they think we should downplay Hashem’s role as being mezaveg zivugim. I always thought that when hishtadlus was required, good old fashioned bitachon was the essential tavlin.