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Avira,
I can tell (I knew a long time ago) that you are not chassidish from any chassidus.
Ask a satmar chossid who “the rebbe” is, and he will tell you the satmar rebbe.
Ask a gerrer chossid who “the rebbe” is, and he will tell you the gerrer rebbe.
Ask a belzer chossid who “the rebbe” is, and he will tell you the belzer rebbe.
Ask a bobover chossid who “the rebbe” is, and he will tell you the bobover rebbe.
Ask a breslover chossid who “the rebbe” is, and he will tell you the breslover rebbe.
Ask a sanzer chossid who “the rebbe” is, and he will tell you the sanzer rebbe.
Ask a vizhnitzer chossid who “the rebbe” is, and he will tell you the vizhnitzer rebbe.My point is, that lubavitchers call him “the rebbe”, because he is our rebbe. He is the closest of all the rebbes to us, and to us he is the rebbe, he is our rebbe and that’s my rebbe. And since he is our rebbe, we believe that he is the rebbe.
And to a belzer chossid, the rebbe is the belzer rebbe, and he is “the rebbe”. And he is the rebbe, more important than all other rebbes, because he is their rebbe.Think of it like this: Your rosh yeshiva, you have much of a closer relationship with him than the rosh yeshiva of a different yeshiva. In your mind, he is “the rosh yeshiva”.
It’s not so hard to understand.Well are the chilul shabbos protests in eretz yisrael a chilul Hashem?
@ShimonNodel
I was trying to clarify what you were saying, so you seem to be saying that you’re like a hindu?
If a yid would be davening on an airplane, if he would davening out loud, not caring about anyone else around him. B’emes, he is doing the ratzon Hashem, meaning, he is davening with a lot of hislahavus and energy.
But the other people on the flight are getting annoyed and this paints a picture that religious jews disturb people in order to do their commandments and make everyone else need to get irritated by it.
So tell me, kiddush Hashem or chilul Hashem???@Shimon Nodel
So then what is the concept of Kiddush/Chilul Hashem for?
Your saying that it doesn’t matter whether you make a kiddush Hashem or a chilul Hashem, they are both great, as long as it’s ‘the right thing’.Sounds like a pretty foolish thing to say.
So you’re saying, in some cases (when you’re doing ‘the right thing’) making chilul Hashem is CH”V a good thing?Learn Chagiga 7B and your covered. Your bad manners will stop very quickly.
In the alte heim they were not able to go and have a public menorah lighting in the town hall, especially in russia. There would be pogroms following, along with other bad stuff, if it was even allowed in the first place.
@Always Ask Questions
That seems to be a very biased opinion that doesn’t have any real basis in facts. Feelings are feelings. But the fact is Men don’t look at what they don’t have more than women. Where did you get your facts from?It’s two words:
Pirsumei Nisa.Even if goyim see it, it’s to spread the miracle & light throughout the world.
And are you embarrassed when you see a menorah in the middle of nowhere? You should be filled with joy.(Even though this conversation is long over,) you won’t find every frum community accepting one gadol to be the Gadol Hador. There doesn’t “HAVE” to be one Gadol Hador. It won’t happen until we get out of galus.
For Example: I might say that in the later 1900’s the Lubvaitcher Rebbe was the Gadol Hador. A Satmar Chossid will believe that the Satmar Rebbe was the Gadol Hador. A Litvack will say a different posek. The Sephradim also. To have one posek who everyone follows will simply not happen until moshiach.
Everyone should follow their own Rov to pasken halacha.@Rak Od Pa’am
Are you saying that poskei hador didn’t get smicha?The only dynastic rich family I know of is the Rothchild Family – but they received a special bracha from a tzaddik that for all generations they’re family will be rich.
Gifts on Chanukah are because on most years, xmas falls out at around the same time. So the Yidden decided to copy them.
n0mesorah, black friday is simply a day when there are supers sales.
Having a special dinner with turkey dafka on thanksgiving is not the right thing.Having a special dinner on thanksgiving is considered celebrating it. Because why have something special on that day? Have it any random day. So then you would be celebrating it. It’s like giving gifts on chanukah. If you give gifts all year round, and you happen to give gifts at the time that falls out on chanukah, then no problem. But if you do it just on Chanukah, because the goyim also do it, then it’s a problem.
AviraDeArah, why are we not emphasising the shulchan aruch? The mishna berurah? The Mishna & Gemara is not the final psak, you can have the same tayna by there too. Yes, the gemara does contains the necessary tools to pasken halacha, but is not the final psak.
Shouldn’t we learn shulchan aruch more (if at all!)???Ujm, what are you trying to say? That Lev Tahor is not a terrible, ruthless, & guilty cult? I would be very surprised to hear a Frum Yid say that was they are doing is okay.
Hashem didn’t ‘invent a a day to celebrate a persons birthday’. We happen to celebrate it to a degree, but the only time we are meant to celebrate a birthday is when your Bar Mitzvah (or bas mitzvah for a girl, but that’s a whole other discussion if you should celebrate it).
TS Baum
I wasn’t gonna mention it. Until I saw some very specific seforim of specific chassiduses and I did mention Shabchi Habesht. There is also Shabci Hamagid, thats great.
The Bais Yisrael al HaTorah
Chiddushei HaRim
Lev Simcha al HaTorah
BaKodesh Penima Zichronos From Belz Rebbe
Tiferes Shlomo
Keser Shem Tov
etc….A goy doesn’t know the halchos, he won’t become suspicious. I’m not an expert on this, so I may be wrong.
Tanya, Likutei Sichos, Toras Menachem, Shluchan Menachem, Igros Kodesh, Torah Ohr, the list goes on…
If the recipient is going to notice that it was sent on shabbos, then it’s assur because of Maaras Ayin.
But if It’s a goy or somebody who knows that you would never send it on shabbos then maybe there is a discussion.“Shabchi Habesht” by Nachlas Tzvi
Sefard was based a lot upon sefardi.
Number 1, I never said any comment about Rav Shach.
You are literall puttting words into my mouth which aren’t true. Why are you making up that your anti-chabad unless you are anti-litvish????
I, in fact, enjoy talking with many litvishe yidden, but they are ehrliche yidden who don’t like starting fights about lubavitch and they realize there is no point in doing it. They actually respect lubavitch very much, and I respect the litvish very much. I am bothered by a few things, but I don’t go around shaming litvishe gedolim. I have a Sichos Rebi Nosson Tzvi in my seforim.“You are calling people “anti-Chabad” for saying that the Lubavitcher Rebbe was a Gadol but he wasn’t the greatest gadol of the 20th century by a wide margin. That’s ridiculous.”
I have never called anyone “anti-chabad” for that. You don’t have to think the Lubavitcher Rebbe was the greatest. I’m okay if you respect him enough at least like any other Gadol would be respected. I was referring to those who were saying that Gedolim said the Lubavitcher WASN”T a Gadol AT ALL, which is totally a wrong and bad thing to say. That I’m not okay with one bit.Syag, I wonder how you think what you said to farby makes sense. I dont recall him saying any rude references to Rav Shach, who for your information, made rude statements about lubavitch and the rebbe. You are saying such hypocritical things.
You look at someone’s exact wording and make up whatever you want to learn out from that sentence.
You are not backing up what you said with sources, examples, or Daas Torah!
You are willing to say that a Gadol, who you almost never follow, says that the Rebbe is just a regular Rav, which is directly saying a false and biased thing, you are putting down a tzadik, making him look like nothing, but then you get so mad if we say anything about a Gadol that you find disrespecftul! Why should we not be mad if you say shaming things about our Rebbe?Your right. But, many people get helped by it. If they weren’t there, then all this chesed would not be.
Avira, please provide a source for where the brisker rav said that. I would not believe it in a 100 years otherwise.
And, whether or not some gedolei yisrael said he was not a gadol or not, he is a Gadol and we all have to respect him.
Syag, I only realized now that you look and go into so much depth of my words, that i realized I must explain myself properly.
“You have even built a sect who teaches that our gedolim and rebbe’s are just commonfolk, there are, as you put it, “thousands of them. It’s pretty hard to keep track”. Unlike your rebbe… And you don’t chap the problem with that?”
You are looking at the negative side of the words, but I wasn’t meaning that. I was saying you need to look at a different perspective, and I was trying to help you see that. The litvishe school I went to, they called every Rosh Yeshiva a Gadol. I know many of them, but there are many in Eretz Yisrael and America and all over the world that I haven’t heard of, and you can’t blame Lubavitcher Children not to know of.
I am pretty flattered that you take my exact wording so seriously.Please tell me how in the world some gedolim can hold others are not gedolim? Gedolim are Gedolim. Gedolim don’t look for honor and kavod, they run away from kavod. I would be really surprised to hear that gedolim just say that ‘the Lubavitcher Rebbe isn’t a Gadol’ just because they disagree.
Avira, I knew who was Rav Vosner was, and he is in fact chassidish. The Yehsiva I was in defnitely had pictures of Chassidishe Rebbes, and they were still considered gedolim.
I do have to admit, that a regular Lubvitcher Boy from Oholei Torah in Crown Heights won’t know that many Gedolim. You need to know where they are coming from. All they see from the Litvishe World is misnagdus, and sadly they think all litivsh ‘hate’ Lubavitch. Now, I don’t think any of you ‘hate’ Lubavitch, even though you have some bad feelings towards them, but the way lubavitcher kids see it is they always openly oppose lubavitchers, and it grows bad feelings towards the litvish.
Now, I’m not saying that they should be, but that is what is happening. If anyone has any solutions to this ‘massive’ problem, then please reply without jumping to conclusions based on the fact I haven’t answered anyone since I’m not on this 24/6.Avria, If Rav Moshe Kotlarsky would do that and they would leave, then that would be a very embarrassing split in the Chabad Community, and they would still call themselves chabad and follow the chabad minhagim and consider themselves shluchim. They would still wave the yellow flags. All that will help is the statement lubavitchers can use is: “They don’t represent us.” But we can already us that statement, because they don’t represent me or the opinion and will of the rebbe. I don’t want to get back into the discussion of did the rebbe oppose the people calling him Moshiach or not, but as long as you can interpret a few words he said which could mean many different things, somebody will interpret it to mean something that he chose it to mean, the Rebbe didn’t mean that, it’s just what they think he meant. I could promise (since it’s it’s assur to promise, but it’s as if) the Rebbe would not want the mishichists acting or believing like they do. He is resting in the Ohel in queens, anyone who wants to visit is mor then welcome, ad that itself is a proof that the Rebbe is now in Shamayim, in Gan Eden.
Do you seriously still believe that all lubavitchers at least secretly think he is still alive? Like, permit me for my use of words, but what are you smoking? What a bizarre thing to hear. You just assume something like that? And you have no proof whatsoever that all lubavitchers still think he is alive but just hide it.
In summary: Them splitting wouldn’t help anything, since they’ll still think they are the real lubavitchers.It’s a real rachmanus on Klal Yisrael (and lubavitch included) that this whole mishichist idea is going on.
It’s really sad, and when exactly does anyone think it’s gonna stop?I was trying to explain why we don’t know every gadol! I went to a litvishe yeshiva when I was younger, and I know my stuff. Of course I know the Gedolei Hador, I’ve heard of Rav Moshe Feinstein & Rav Nosson Tzvi And Rav Ahron Kotler & Rav Malkiel Kotler & Rav Chaim Kanievsky & Rav Dovid Feinstein & Rav Reuven Feinstein & Rav Sholom Kamenetzky & Rav Shmuel Kaminetzky & Rav Gifter & Rav Elyashiv & Rav Shteiman & Rav Yerucham Olshein & Rav Avigdor Miller & R’ Akiva Eiger & Rav Boruch Ber Liebowitz & Rav Dov Laundau & Rav Chaim Ozer & Rav Pinchas Scheinberg & Rav Yitzchok Zilberstein etc. the list continues… They are all tremendous talmidei chachamim, gaonim, and gedolim.
But the thing you must understand is, that most Lubavitcher kids go to Lubavitcher Yeshivas, and there they focus on the Lubavitcher rebbe’s approach to things. It’s not a thing they focus so much on. And in the Yeshiva I went to, and in many other yeshivas, you barely hear any stories or any recognition about the lubavitcher rebbeim. You hear about the klausenberger rebbe, satmar, belz, ger, bobov, breslov, and more, but lubavitch is barely a thing. Tell me how many times you’ve seen he Lubavitcher Rebbe on a gedolim wall? Your going to say that we don’t follow the lubavitcher rebbe and he isn’t our mani focus. So too for the lubavitcher schools. They aren’t putting any gedolim down.
And in fact, in some litvishe schools, they put the lubavitcher rebbe down!I think that “you should want and love to do the ratzon Hashem” would not take away your Bchira.
“A neighbor who is lubavitch came to my house for something and did not recognize the gedolim who’s pictures I have in my living room”
The thing is, that nowadays almost every Rosh Yeshiva is considered a gadol, and there are hundreds if not thousands of them, and they are pretty hard to keep track of (i’m seriously not trying to offend anyone).
Please explain what you mean by “a city of thousands of yellow flags.” I know you mean mishichists, but which city has that many mishichists if it’s not tzfas?
I feel very sorry and am bothered that many non-lubavitchers get the feeling that all lubavitchers act like the ones you see. I can understand as people tend to judge one and assume all is like one. But Lubavitcher Rabbonim can’t openly oppose it. There is a difference between silent disagreement and open disagreement. If it’s open disagreement, lubavitchers will end up getting into fights, and just make things get worse. Let’s say R’ Moshe Kotlarksy would openly speak out agaisnt them at the Kinus Hashluchim. There are some mishichists who are shluchim, and they won’t be happy. They won’t respect him anymore. They’ll maybe even break off from the Shluchim office. Who knows? But it will only higher the flames, not lower them. I think eventually they will come to reality, and realize, that they are the ones with the mishigas. And I myself never got an answer from them, they just don’t respond, but we all know it’s a problem with their mental health that didn’t let them even acknowledge the fact that the rebbe passed away. It’s not a l’chatchila situation, but nobody is perfect, and no segment of klal yisrael is perfect, and every community has it’s ups and downs.It’s * Minute daf, but that is mainly for the title. Not sure how many actually watch his 8 minute daf. More watch the actual shiur, which is a good shiur. He is very hands-on, is very interesting.
edited
ask him why he stopped them also.
And can we forget about the fact that some chabadnicks think their rebbe is Moshiach? Just put that aside, and look at the real Lubavitch. All the bad stuff you all are saying about Lubavitch is (they believe their rebbe is) Moshiach Moshiach Moshiach Moshiach. Lubavitchers long for Moshiach (whoever it is) all the time, as you are meant to, but without the mishichsts problem, you wouldn’t be able to find so many other ‘big’ problems with Chabad.
And, if you know it’s a mishigas, then why go so crazy about it? They aren’t taking thousands of yidden and making them run around with yellow flags and then they believe in it. When the word Lubavitch comes up, suddenly, it’s mishichists. Why?
V’im Tomar, “it’s a very bad and radical idea that must be dealt with,” tell me how exactly you plan on dealing with it? (I hope I’m not stirring the flames, don’t call me a hypocrite 😉Chai_18, why would it be a בור? Are gorillas תחילת עשייתן לנזיק?
I take back what I say from before (not to mean that it is not true, but I think it’s wiser to keep the arguments on a low key and not stir it).
My point now is: Yes, we do end up judging gedolim and Tzadikim. But that’s just what our eyes see and what our ears hear. Only Hashem knows the full truth. And everyone has different opinions on this matter.
So everyone know: that is their opinion, I may have a different opinion, and you may have a 3rd opinion. Doesn’t mean it’s Emes V’yatziv. My opinion isn’t either Emes V’yatziv. I think it is, but I don’t know for sure.R’ Eli Stefansky has the best shiur that I know of. He is not a boring magid shiur at all. Great Guy.