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Wolf, why do you always end off with The Wolf? We don’t need to know that you think of yourself as an animal.
I get confused.
I think they are the same. They say the same thing, have the same views…syag, let’s not turn this into a big chakira.
The rebbe doesn’t need to be farhered to know his status.
I am just really bothered that somebody can decide something (which has effects, because he has talmidim, who now share his opinion) when he hasn’t even looked into it deeply to say such a statement. Many do not know much about the Rebbe, which we can talk about a different time. I’m not getting into it.
When you think of seforim maybe you think, “oh nice, a 3-volume set on nice chiddushei torah.
That’s not what I’m talking about.
I’m talking about 3 massive sets of works which are not smaller than 30-40 Seforim in EACH set.
Tora Menachem is 90+ volumes which they didn’t even finish publishing. That’s not even all of his works.We are talking about somebody who sent out 6,000+ (and more coming) shluchim around the entire globe to bring Yidden closer to yiddishkeit. Billions of mitzvos came as a resut of his work. He is not some small rebbe or talmid chacham, your dealing with big things here.
The satmar rebbe is considered by this rosh yeshiva of somebody on the CR one of the gedolei hador. I DON’T want to start getting into details, or arguments, and I’m not coming to refute the satmar rebbe.
What I’m saying is that if he considers the satmar rebbe such a gadol, then how can you just dismiss The Lubavticher Rebbe like that? How? Because the lubavitcher rebbe didn’t do what lakewood did? Because he didn’t build his own lakewood? In fact, He built lubavitch in every continent (they even have chabad.org in antartica, a jewish scientist there uses it for shiurim and other stuff).
I understand that the litvishe derech is to stay learning in kollel your whole life, or at least stay in the velt, not to go and be mekarev people, for the most part.
But that isn’t a deciding factor.
Just be honest with yourself, you can’t just dismiss it as “shkoyach, I don’t ‘see’ that as helping world. It’s ‘nothing’ special.”I started this conversation, so I will take achrayos and end it. Just after the post above. (:
americanyerushalmi,
I agree.
I have heard somebody say on the coffee room numerous times that his rebbi didn’t ‘consider’ a chassidishe rebbe a ‘gadol’.My problem with that is that who is he to decide what he is and isn’t? This rebbi never even met him, he doesn’t know his level of learning, his gadlus, or his impact.
The point needs to be made clear: People aren’t gedolim because they are ‘considered’ gedolim and it goes the other way too. It is whether they actually ARE, not by how others judge them.
So here in the Parshah of Gedolim questions like these arise.
I don’t know the real answer myself, if there even is an answer.
But I can tell you that the Agudah board decides who is a Gadol, as if they have any right to put checks & x’s over people.And it really depends, because some people consider a gadol to be somebody who does a lot of chesed and learns Torah and is “a giant of a man”.
Some say it’s Roshei Yeshiva, which I’m not really maskim too this pshat, because who gets to chose which Yeshiva is prominent enough to have their Rosh yeshiva be called a gadol? The yated or the moetzes?
P.s. Maybe I said something possibly controversial in the latter statement, but please, you know who you are, don’t rip on me for it.
Ah, now I understand.
Thank you for clarifying.So you have a Rebbi R’ Shmuel & another R’ Simcha Bunim, both the mattersdorfer rav?
If you mean your personal rebbi, then I am confused.
If you mean different generations in the dynasty, then I understand.Okay, I guess that was a misunderstanding.
I think this whole forum is a bunch of misunderstandings.
You corrected me by pointing out that I said “everybody”. But I think you should understand that I didn’t mean everybody.
Avira – And miztvos don’t affect the world?
You truly have a lot in common with commonsaychel.
For your information, when I said “everybody” I don’t literally mean EVERY SINGLE SINGLE PERSON. I mean in general. You are a pretty sharp thinker, but sometimes maybe you think too precisely.
I don’t decide–you do. But all I’ve seen you contributed (for the most part) is telling everybody that they don’t make sense and what they say isn’t true because it just isn’t.
Here you go again, syag. Nobody needs to hear “you don’t make sense” or, “I noticed serious flaws in your post.” Well, I actually didn’t notice any, maybe your post would have some tochen if you wrote anything which proves your statement.
And besides, focus on the actual conversation, not just the way people say things and create contradictions from something that may have been said in the wrong language.About the mishichistim: they have no right to call the Rebbe Moshiach if we don’t know who it is
About the Elokistim: They are all meshuganes I don’t know what to say about them, they’re minds are twisted, and this topic I don’t believe will help. I said above what I think everybody should do.Degel is a flag, which represents a group of people. So sometimes it might say somewhere degel referring to a group of people even if it’s not a flag because that’s what a flag represents.
For Example, An American flag represents America, so if somebody says ‘I pledge alliance to the American flag’, it doesn’t mean to the literal flag, rather what it represents.
Yes, he would have to start breathing again if he would be Moshiach.
But it’s not impossible, It can happen through techiyas hameisim. Hashem has done techiyas hameisim in the past to certain individuals. It doesn’t have to be through the big techiyas hameisim which will happen.
What my problem with some of the ideas floating around is the possiblity.
It is clear in the Gemara Sanhedrin 98b:
“אָמַר רַב אִי מִן חַיָּא הוּא כְּגוֹן רַבֵּנוּ הַקָּדוֹשׁ אִי מִן מַתְיָא הוּא כְּגוֹן דָּנִיאֵל אִישׁ חֲמוּדוֹת”Btw, I want to pose a question to everybody: Why did Rav say if he is from the dead, it will be daniel, why daniel? If we want to say that we want somebody from the earlier generations, then why not say Moshe Rabbeinu? And if we want somebody from the latest generation, what happened to Rabbi Akiva, the Rashbi, and all the other huge talmidei chachamim and tzaddikim? R’ Shimon Bar Yochai sat in a cave for more than a decade and just sat and learned, why didn’t Rav refer to him as Moshiach Min Meisa?
elbendi – “היה הוה ויהיה” of course Hashem can be in the past, present, and future. This specifically means that he was G-d, is G-d, and will always be G-d. I’m absolutely positive Hashem can go back in time or forward in time, but I don’t think that when the author of the 13 Ikarim refered specifically to time travel. When it says
“אֲנִי מַאֲמִין בֶּאֱמוּנָה שְׁלֵמָה שֶׁהַבּוֹרֵא יִתְבָּרַךְ שְׁמוֹ הוּא יָחִיד וְאֵין יְחִידוּת כָּמוֹהוּ בְּשׁוּם פָּנִים וְהוּא לְבַדּוֹ אֱלֺהֵינוּ הָיָה הֹוֶה וְיִהְיֶה”
“וְהוּא לְבַדּוֹ אֱלֺהֵינוּ הָיָה הֹוֶה וְיִהְיֶה” the הָיָה הֹוֶה וְיִהְיֶה was reffering to Hashem being the Aibishter, was, is, & will always be.So I don’t think we can learn from here that humans can’t travel in time.
But again, I don’t think we can.
I think the RAAYO P’SHUTO ME’OID which is IF THERE WILL BE A TIME MACHINE IN THE FUTURE THEN SOMEONE WOULD HAVE TURNED UP FROM THE FUTURE is a very reasonable proof that we can’t travel BACK in time, but that wouldn’t rule out forward.But again, you could technically travel forward.
You can do that by sitting in a cardboard box for 6 hours and come out after waiting those six hours, and kaboom – your ahead in time!Well one thing is for sure the world won’t explode & we won’t burn up until after the days of Moshiach, but anyways, it won’t be through the burning of fossil fuels. I understand that the world is getting hotter, but what I say is a theory is the effects of global warming and that we can stop it and it’s because we are using plastic bags. Yes, the world is getting hotter, but the reason is not necessarily from these things.
I’m not saying we should on purpose create more fossil fuels, even when we don’t need it, but if it will really help us in our day-to-day lives then why should we refrain from using things which are pretty important & helpful nowadays when the ‘terrible effects’ are just theories?
To return to the OP’s original question, I don’t know if there is a practical answer which can be done by us. The answer I would give, is to say tehillim, and daven for Moshiach all the time, and especially have kavannah after Shemoneh Esrei when you say
“יְהִֽי רָצֽוֹן מִלְּפָנֶֽיךָ, יְיָ אֱלֹהֵֽינוּ וֵֽאלֹהֵֽי אֲבוֹתֵֽינוּ, שֶׁיִּבָּֽנֶה בֵּֽית הַמִּקְדָּֽשׁ בִּמְהֵרָֽה בְיָמֵֽינוּ וְתַֽן חֶלְקֵֽנוּ בְּתֽוֹרָתֶֽךָ”!Avira – so how can you say ‘they didn’t hold of him’? What does that mean?
It’s pashut the rebbe was mamash a genius in Torah, look at his seforim & watch ferbrengens!I don’t see how it helps anybody to repeat saying which were merely based upon their view and knowledge of lubavitch, and, much more about the Rebbe is known to us since the Rebbe passed away. Now we see the massive effects of the Rebbe’s outreach & intense caring for every Yid.
Maybe at that time, based on what they knew, they came to conclusions, but i’m sure if they knew what is known nowadays, his opinion would change.Tell me how many gedolim who know lubavitch well, are still misnagdim and ‘don’t hold’ of the Rebbe? How many Chassidishe Rebbes nowadays are anti-lubavitch? You can hardly find one!
For example, satmar used to be very anti-chabad. Nowadays, the Rebbe is a sandek for a shliach whom is is staying by his son’s bris! It would be the thought of someone living under a rock to say, but r’ yoel was very anti lubavitch! How can that possibly be???
The answer is, because know most people understand and view lubavitch very differentl.Avira – I try to be respectful, but you need to be respectful of tzaddikim who are much greater than you whom you cannot fathom.
edited
IIt is simply unfathomable that he said the Rebbe wasn’t a gadol batorah.
Just watch a frabrengen, the rebbe literally rattles off sources after sources and sayings and teachings from all over Torah, it is pashut unfathomable to say such a thing.
From Rav Pinchos Hirschprung: “There are two things which set the Rebbe apart,” Rabbi Hirschprung cited. “The Rebbe’s Torah knowledge and that he is the true leader of the generation. Pinchas Hirschprung is not impressed by the title ‘gaon’ [Torah giant]. He knows who deserves the title. And I am telling you that there is nobody like the Rebbe, not only in our generation but even in earlier generations. I was with the gaon Rabbi Meir Shapiro in Lublin, with the gaon Rabbi Menachem Zemba, and all the gaonim of the previous generation. I found no one comparable to the Rebbe’s greatness in all areas of Torah.”
Avira – I actually don’t care what the talmidim of rav aharon say about lubavtich, I don’t want to know, and it will be better unsaid.
I have in fact heard of Rav Mendelovich. I’m not sure if you knew this, but Rav Nesanel Quinn (one of the first talmidim in the yeshivah) his mother started the nursery & kindergarten which grew into Torah Vodaas. And Fun Fact: Rav Quinn’s family was a Lubavitcher family sent by the Rebbe Rashab because they didn’t have children in Europe he said ‘Meshane makom meshane mazal’ (Change your place and your luck will change for the good). Travel to America and there you will have children.”
I’m not sure you knew that.And it is a known fact, that bachurim from chaim berlin and torah vodaas would come to farbrengens often. I don’t know if you were of that age, so maybe you don’t remember because it didn’t happen to you.
avira – they do. They are removed from the geder of a karkafta who didn”t put on tefillin and become a head which did put on tefillin, making them zoche to olam habah.
From Shaarei Kedusha, Part 2, Shaar 8:
וכן מצות עשה להניח תפילין, אם היה קרקפתא דלא מנח תפילין מעולם, אינו קם בתחית המתים
Somebody who does put on tefillin, even once, wakes up for olam haboh.Maybe there is a pink banana-shaped flying monkey who can breathe fire and fly faster than the speed of sound. But nobody has such an opinion, so why would it even come up?
Over here, though, there are people who have opinions, and there is the source in shoftim, perek 5, passuk 23, where Rashi explains that one opinion is that this was a star. And the inhabitants of the star didn’t come to help in battle.On the other side, this seems hard to understand because why specifically here should they have come? Why not when bnei yisrael were attacked by amalek, or when yehoshua conquered erets yisrael, or any other wars?
The general view probably follows the second opinion which Rashi says, this was a distinguished person who was near the battle field but failed to appear.
But, it still shows that there is and was an idea out there even by Rashi, that there could be other living beings on a different planet too. yes, it’s farfetched, & I don’t know if there is, but it’s totally possible!
AAQ, you take things SOOO seriously. My words are not l’havdil the words of the Torah. Maybe my choice of words is not the best, but I’m sure everyone get’s my point.
Aseh, of course you have to use it in the right way! But this whole global warming theory is just a theory, and there is no basis for it, especially that at a certain point the world will blow up.
It’s all the creation of some scientists’s own imagination, and they conviced others that it’s real because they got a big degree of science from harvard or columbia or whatever they make up.And besides, even if this theory is true, around 90% of all the fossil fuels and ‘harmful’ material comes from places like china, other countries in asia, & africa. Not America.
I’m not saying that there are aliens. I have no clue if there is or isn’t. But we can’t rule out the possibilty, limiting Hashem, because we don’t know the reason. Do you know the reason why the CR was created?
No, I don’t think there is one, but that doesn’t mean there can’t be a reason, but I just don’t know that there is.Choosid – there are some misnagdim on the CR so there will need to be two minaynim – vasikin and ‘regular time’
“the overwhelming majority of whom stayed frei or weren’t reached by shluchim. Putting leather boxes on clueless people with the halachik status of goyim or captured babies does little to bring the geulah, I’m sorry.”
I’m sorry to inform you, there are HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of stories from baalei teshuva who became frum from putting on tefillin once, and there are even stories of people who just noticed lubavitchers putting tefillin on yidden, and by that they got inspired and that started their journey home.
I think if you want the video titled “The Tefillin Campaign” from chabad.org your whole perspective will change a lot. I can understand your view, but I also understand tha view is comign from somebody who is igorant in things regarding the Rebbe.
Avira – Again you take my words in the wrong direction!
I said you would think twice about the rebbe being Moshiach as opposed to rav shach, who, yes, learned a lot of Torah, was a rosh yeshiva with a magnificent aron kodesh, and all the stuff…
But the Rebbe I am confident to say he prepared the world for Moshiach. Whether he himself is, I truly don’t know, and nobody knows.Anybody who says that the rebbe did little to brin Moshiach, is just ignorant. If somebody knows the extent of the Rebbe, & his Shluchim, you’ll learn a thing or two.
It’s like making fleishig pizza.
Food nowadays turned upside down.
Hashem gave us plastic, styrefoam, & gasoline for us to use for example to power a car to drive and do a mitzvah, or anything which could help us in our Avodas Hashem, and it would be neglectful to not use these amazing stuff which Hashem has given us.
If your worried about the climate and temperature, Hashem will take care that we won’t get burned up, just as he cared for the past 5782 years.
Moshiach is coming now, so what difference does it make? Sooner or later the geulah shleimah will be here, and foresure before the year 6000, which is less than 220 years away. And if this bubba maisah is a true one, (although no bubbe maisos are true) it will only get at most 15 degrees hotter (going on that it gets 1 degree hotter every 15 years)!
Avira – 770 is not officially in the hands of meshichistim, they had a whole story, and I don’t think I want to fill you in on inside politics which have no connection to you.
Bit i’ll tell you this, the rights to 770 are in hands of merkos & aguch, but right now the meshichistim aren’t getting chased out, don’t ask me why.
By Rav Shach, you wouldn’t think twice about him being Moshiach.
It’s very different by the Rebbe.
I think you understand why. If you don’t I’ll show you in short.One of the things necessary to be Moshiach is that this individual is passionate & his whole life is based around bringing the geulah.
Rav Shach’s whole life did not revolve around bringing the geulah.
The Rebbe’s whole life did revolve around bringing the geulah.But, that doesn’t make it stamped in ink. That doesn’t MAKE him Moshiach. But it would make you think twice.
Why do litvacks not say ashamnu?
They don’t have to make any declarations to not believe in a mishugas. You just don’t have to believe.
But for your information, look at this statement:
A 1996 statement from Agudas Chasidei Chabad said:With regard to some recent statements and declarations by individuals and groups concerning the matter of Moshiach and the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson, of sainted memory, let it be known that the views expressed in these notices are in no way a reflection of the movement’s position. While we do not intend to preclude expressions of individual opinion, they are, in fact, misleading and a grave offense to the dignity and expressed desires of the Rebbe. The statement reads that “The Rebbe clearly inspired a heightened consciousness of Moshiach, one of Judaism’s principles of faith, and towards this end, encouraged the study of the traditional sources concerning belief in Moshiach, the Redemption and its imminent fulfillment, as well as an increase in activities of goodness and kindness. This should be perpetuated by all, as we strive for a more perfect world and the fulfillment of the Rebbe’s vision.
It continues:
Unfortunately, the Rebbe’s words are now being distorted and quoted out of context by a numbered few. This reckless behavior, even if well intentioned, is antithetical in the extreme to all that Lubavitch represents as defined by the Rebbe. The Rebbe explicitly and emphatically advocated a thoughtful, respectful and responsible approach in this and related matters, and resolutely opposed such distorted pronouncements time after time, both publicly and privately.[88]
A statement from Vaad Rabonei Lubavitch said:
A 1996 statement from Agudas Chasidei Chabad said:
With regard to some recent statements and declarations by individuals and groups concerning the matter of Moshiach and the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Rabbi Menachem M. Schneerson, of sainted memory, let it be known that the views expressed in these notices are in no way a reflection of the movement’s position. While we do not intend to preclude expressions of individual opinion, they are, in fact, misleading and a grave offense to the dignity and expressed desires of the Rebbe. The statement reads that “The Rebbe clearly inspired a heightened consciousness of Moshiach, one of Judaism’s principles of faith, and towards this end, encouraged the study of the traditional sources concerning belief in Moshiach, the Redemption and its imminent fulfillment, as well as an increase in activities of goodness and kindness. This should be perpetuated by all, as we strive for a more perfect world and the fulfillment of the Rebbe’s vision.
It continues:
Unfortunately, the Rebbe’s words are now being distorted and quoted out of context by a numbered few. This reckless behavior, even if well intentioned, is antithetical in the extreme to all that Lubavitch represents as defined by the Rebbe. The Rebbe explicitly and emphatically advocated a thoughtful, respectful and responsible approach in this and related matters, and resolutely opposed such distorted pronouncements time after time, both publicly and privately.[88]
A statement from Vaad Rabonei Lubavitch said:
Belief in the coming of Moshiach and awaiting his imminent arrival is a basic tenet of the Jewish faith. It is clear, however, that conjecture as to the possible identity of Moshiach is not part of the basic tenet of Judaism. The preoccupation with identifying the Rebbe (zatza”l) as Moshiach is clearly contrary to the Rebbe’s wishes. Together with the whole of Klal Yisrael we pray for the fulfillment of our collective yearning for Moshiach, in the spirit of the timeless Jewish declaration: “I await his (Moshiach’s) coming each and every day”. – wikipedia, translated from kol koreh chabad.
Look at chabad things which to my knowlege isn’t mishichist:
1. Merkos L’inyonei chinuch
2. Chabad.org
3. Collive.com
4. Anash.org
5. CrownHeights.info
6. Chayenu
7. Kehos Publication Society
8. Tzivos Hashem
9. Friendship circle
10. Gan Yisrael
11. Ohr Avner
12. Ohel Chabad-Lubavitch
13. Vaad Rabonei Lubavitch
14. The Shluchim Office
15. TheYeshiva.net
16. Stumptherabbi.org (there are different rabbis on it, with different opinions, but following the majority)
17. The Meaningful Life Center
18. Most lubavitcher yeshivos
19. Jewish Educational Media
20. Jewish Learning Network
21. Colel Chabad
22. The Rebbe’s Library
23. Jewish Learning Institute
24. Machne Yisrael
25. Aguch (Agudas Chasidei Chabad)
26. Hachayol Magazine
And more, but I think this is enough to prove my point.Now, for the mishichistim:
1. Beis Moshiach Magazine
2. Chabad.net
3. Psakdin.net
4. chabadinfo.com
5. Dvar Malchus
None more come to mind, i’m sure there are a few more.But at the end of the day, even including ones I forgot, the majority of chabad multimedia & organizations are not meshichistim.
Avira – Do we know the reason for everything?
Just because we don’t know the reason-it doesn’t mean there is none.Syag – I can say it too.
Nah.
You can do that by sitting in a cardboard box for 6 hours and come out after waiting those six hours, and kaboom – your ahead in time!
While you can not go back in time, there is a way to go forward in time.