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sam2, and why do you think they made it into a public protest only recently?
Hint, the answer is because the charedim had them arrested for davening with a tallis.
No, what I am saying is that people saying “for thousands of years, we’ve been davening at the kosel like this” are wrong.
The kosel is not a shul. It’s a holy place where people daven, but it is not a shul. (otherwise 90% of the stuff that goes on there should be protested.)
All I’m saying is that if 10 women want to daven once a month for 20 minutes, in the lady’s section, then let them. There certainly is no halachic barrier for a woman in the woman’s section to wear a tallis. Even if there was, if they’re not going to stop regardless, then what do you gain from fighting them?
Lastly, the only reason why this is becoming a big deal is indeed because the Charedim have made it into a big deal. If they continue to make it a big deal, you can bet that the secular MK’s will start to notice even more and try to rectify, what they perceive, inequalities.
Well, the fact that there is no Jordanian, Ottoman or British precedent kind of means that there is no precedent for the Kotel being the way it is now.
It’s been like this since 1967, not for thousands of years.
And to continue, you all are the reason why there are so many people leaving frumkeit today. When people see the truth and you guys just close your eyes and say, “no”, do you really think that turns people on?
edited
Gay marriage was being legislated for years before R’ Sherer’s passing. Notice that the Agudah didn’t get involved, and still doesn’t get involved.
It’s not worth to fight something that will happen anyway.
As for the WOW wanting to make a scene, the facts show that to be untrue.
For 20+ years no scene was made until the charedim started to antagonize and create laws banning women from wearing a tallis.
With this, and other issues, the charedim in Israel need to learn to take a chill pill. How would they like it if the majority would start to dictate to them how to act?
If you think women wearing tallis is wrong, then don’t do it. But let them do it in peace. It’s twenty minutes a month for crying out loud.
It’s most certainly not assur. We see that the only reason this is making news is because some charedim like to protest. This mont’s scene was much quieter because there was no organized protest.
Ask yourself, what do you have to gain by protesting, and what do you have to lose by protesting.
I think I may join all the other non-Charedi posters and leave. It seems that if people disagree with your posts or they can’t argue, they just insult and call you names. Being censored and not being able to post is not condusive to a discussion. There are plenty of Jewish discussion boards out there that allow discussion with little moderation of ideology.
take your own chill. We’ve posted all your substantive material. If you can’t win your argument on that, it certainly isn’t the moderators fault.
I just wanted to add, what I mean is that the charedim in Israel have a limited amount of political capital. They should not spend it on this.
It’s similar to why R’ Moshe Sherer was against protesting gay marriage in the US. He felt that gay marriage was inevitable and there is no point in having us publicaly protest it. It will just have us lose capital. If we are against gay marriage, then we won’t marry.
But not every “fight” has to be a war.
Even before 1948 there were no mechitzos.
You can talk agendas all you want, the fact is that they were doing this for 20+ years, in the women’s section.
There are far greater fish to fry and in the big game, this will just come back to bite the charedim, who are in the minority.
Whether the leader is reform or not, is irrelevant to WOW. Until they start protesting mechitzos, it’s a moot point.
In addition, protesting and making a scene at the Kotel kind of negates the point that the Kotel is not a place for protesting and making scenes.
Lastly, the Kotel never had a din of kedushas beis knesses so having a group of women davening, behind a mechitza, should not get people all worked up. Let them daven for the 20 minutes once a month.
oomis, before 1967 there were no mechitzos at the Kotel.
In addition, the women today are behind a mechitza when they wear their tallis and tefillin, so your points don’t concern the men.
The WOW should not be confused with the reform. The WOW do not want mixed davening. They just want to wear a tallis in the lady’s section.
Whether you agree with them or not, I don’t know why people would forbid it. It’s very dangerous to restrict a minority’s opinion just because you don’t like it. I don’t like people changing the nusach and sayinh Keser instead of Naaritzicha, but I won’t make it illegal.
Just random thoughts popping into my head:
(Not necessarily Jewish/Halacha related, but might be relationship related)
Even if men are pigs as the Gadol Hagirls R’ Orlofsky teaches, girls are now aware of it. So when they have a relationship with a pig, they know what they’re getting into and how to deal with it. It is also a good learning experience for a real relationship when the boy wakes up and suddenly is not a pig (usually by aged 50-60 and then by 70 he’s a pig again).
Everyone has hormones, but it is true that teenagers have it worse, both girls and boys. It’s like a car that just turned on in the cold. It will take a few minutes for the car to warm up. You drive carefully, without revving the engine, etc. So too a teenager, the hormones are starting to kick in and they have to learn how to deal with it. An adult male/female of 25/30/40 still has those hormones but they are more experienced and know how to handle it.
fkelly,
It’s still not enough to change the statistics, but if you’re worried about it, sure, I’m all for having people wait until their adults before marrying and having a baby.
Before you hurt yourself by bumping into that encroachment, find out if homeowner’s insurance will cover an illegally built structure.
If he’s a citizen, then you can’t deport him.
If he’s not a citizen, (and possibly not green-carded either) he can be deported after his conviction of a felony.
Don’t forget that women have to do mayim achronim as well.
brony, actually if you look at R’ Moshe’s teshuva he includes any country that has legislation on milk protection, no matter how weak. (which would include India and other countries, even though enforcement is close to nil.)
One thing to keep in mind is that every adult is a mandated reporter under NJ law.
You’re still unclear.
If the produce is from the US, it does not need terumah or maaser, regardless of where you’re eating it.
The rest of your post is hogwash so I won’t respond to it.
Still unclear, please try it again in English.
If your rabbis are unclear, I’ll clear up the issue. If the produce is from the US, it does not need teruma or maaser taken out.
Your post is very unclear with regards to American hechsherim.
Are you saying that you don’t buy food from the US and bring it to Israel because of terumah or maaser issues??
It’s very easy to lookup, even in person. I once traced my house all the way back to the mid 1800’s
Right, if you don’t find it, then consult a lawyer. Also, if he decides to do it anyway, make sure he doesn’t trespass on your property, including the shared driveway. Once he builds on the property his easement on your property is gone.
The easement should be recorded on the deed, viewable on your county clerk’s website, or on acris in nyc. Very easy to lookup yourself. If it’s nit on the deed it would have been filed with the clerk so you still can lookup online.
So when a lady shakes lulav and esrog, we should stop her and quiz her on her doing all her required mitzvos? People keep confusing WOW with the egalitarian group, they are not the same. WOW have been going to the Kotel for more than 20 years. It is ONLY because of the charedi actions that it suddenly becomes an issue. If you would have left them alone, davening in the woman’s section quietly, nothing would have happened. Instead, you make a big deal out of it, and it will go to the courts and press, suddenly more people will show up in solidarity and the courts will ultimately rule in their favor. You cut off your nose to spite your face.
lastly, I don’t get why it’s OK to question people’s means or methods of connecting to Hashem. I don’t walk around to all the Nusach Sefard shules and scream out “Kofer” to everyone. I certainly don’t scream that out to shuls that daven Kabbalas Shabbos at the amud as if it is part of the davening.
sl1, very simple, we don’t accept them as gedolim.
I’ve been saying this for years, even before Slifkingate, when gedolim act in a way that you wouldn’t act (signing things without reading/investigating) how can you respect them?
At least with the Lipa concert R’ Shmuel apologized and admitted he was wrong. That is the mark of someone you can respect. This is also a much bigger problem than just this case. It’s the entire rabbinate at stake here. If people know that their leaders act like this, they will not seek counsel, will not seek answers to questions and ultimately will just go off on their own. We do need leaders who are not afraid to admit they sometimes make mistakes. Everyone does, that’s why we’re human and not angels.
If you live in NYC, you don’t need a passuk to show it’s assur, you need a passuk to show it’s muttar.
Well, that’s how YWN and some posters allow negative posts. Simply label them as MO and then it’s allowed.
State the exact same view about Satmar (even though it’s backed by 99.9%) and it does not get through.
Apparently it’s not that anti-Satmar since my relatively benign post was not approved.
If that was rather benign, I don’t think I’d like to see what you consider malignant.
Who said harm has to be significant? Hurting yourself is still assur. Smoking one cigarette does harm, albeit tiny harm.
Why is cosmetic surgery assur? It’s assur because you can’t harm yourself. Same here.
You are not allowed to harm your body. Smoking harms. Smoking kills.
There are two things here, the harming and the killing. The killing is for a routine smoker. The harming is even smoking one.
Also, just an aside to 147 who posted that most gedolim would be in favor of banning all guns, I’m sorry, but that is not a Jewish perspective. You have been brainwashed and I am going to assume you live either in the NY or LA area. Gun control is not a Jewish concept.
How long are other services compared to a shacharis davening?
Also, I still don’t get why people feel the need to discuss religion at work. It’s one of the two big no-nos.
That happened because R’ SZA was the “Last of the Gedolim.” I doubt all the stories you hear about him could be said about a tenth of the rabbanim running around today.
In one case how can you say he was misled? The letter explicitly stated he did a thorough investigation.
I disagree. When was the last time something was ever taken back?
Apparently reading comprehension is also not studied for intrinsic value.
I guess you would consider the GRA, MO since he held that maddah has intrinsic value.
The Yekkes in Washington Heights are yeshivish/charedi because they have assimilated.
TUM is YU’s motto, it is not the derech of MO. MO would be TIDE.
That is precisely why the difference between yeshivish and MO is much smaller than yeshivish and chassidish. There are extreme fundamental differences in hashkafah between litvish and chassidish Jews.
I also think this discussion has no place at all in the workplace. The two things never to discuss at work are politics and religion.
Add to that that you may run into issurim of discussing religion with your coworkers. Add to that that many people have only a kindergarten understanding of religion and would most likely not do too well in a discussion.
Jam, most MO would most likely be classified as TIDE not TUM.
Jam, MO and TUM are not the same thing.
Just to throw a wrench to one of the posters above: there is probably a greater difference between chassidim and nons, than there is between nons and MO, as far as Jewish hashkafah and practice. Also, since when I’d this something to discuss with non jews?
He didn’t compare them to the Nazis. Read it again. Although his analogy means he won’t quote prewar rabbis who were against Zionism.
I thought hashgachos are always telling us that their job is only on the food and not on anything else. Or is that only with regards to safety/labor issues?
What about rebbes buying silver tipped canes?
Pba, they actually do. I sat through a speech regarding the protection afforded to milk consumers by the government. It’s probably the only industry where you can trust government regulations.
Milk sold in the USA is tested. If you ever see a milk truck, it will have vials with milk samples from all the milk sources.
In the USA the dairies know they will get caught if they cheat. The number one consumer if milk are little kids. That means that there is usually more oversight and punishments than a regular industry.
PBA,
Obviously it depends on how much pigs milk or if it was put in on purpose. I think most organizations, allow up to 50% pigs milk. That’s why the CS milk is creamier and lasts longer than CY milk, the mixing of cow and pigs milk together results in a chemical reaction to the lactic acid and due to the homogenization of the milk mixture results in a different status. Once it’s homogenized, it might not halachically be considered milk and that’s why some other kashrus organizations, specifically the Chazir-K, will even allow 100% homogenized pigs milk. However, most people are noheig not like the Chazir-K.
One thing is certain, yeshivos need to start teaching history of Zionism.
Where did I say it was directed to me?
DY, I didn’t defame anyone. I just said I don’t respect them.
In any case I don’t think they’re gedolim, so I will use your Tendler reason and not worry about it. I will also not hold my breath waiting for your apology in insulting someone whom many hold is a gadol.
DY,
while you say you haven’t denounced any, others will say that you have. If someone thinks that rabbi tendler is a gadol, then you have indeed denounced a gadol.
All I want to know is why is it OK for you to denounce a gadol but not OK when someone else does it.