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Charlie: Why are you name-calling those who want a hat and it’s identity (as even your “rav” felt was right), and not on those who don’t want to wear one, but want to change the girls??
“Kol haposel, mimumo posel!”
Imitation is the greatest flattery!
shorosh: Are you nervous about shidduchim in general, or just this particular shidduch?
If its about this particular shidduch, what is it that you’re uncertain about? Is it him and his religious understanding and commitment? Is it about how you may be viewed? Please elaborate.
COOKIE
Member Since
March 22, 2011 (3 hours)
My question is, are we doing a good job educating ourselves in tolerance and slander?
Are we doing a bad job educating oyr youth?
Maybe yes, maybe no. What I fail to see is, how does an isolated incident serve as a reflection on such broad question, to which a proper study must be conducted.
To answer your question, we’re doing a great job! Just ask any of the local Police Precincts.
Umm, why not? Chesed is always good.
If however, you may have omited some details, then it may indeed be unacceptable.
mytake:
You made a great list on your link. One bone though. Aren’t some of the practices you discourage considered successful therapeuticall practices? I understand that some disagree, but Icounseling success is very difficult to prove, and I think some of those practices may be considered “good” by some psychotherapists and social workers
anon1m0us:
All of a sudden you claim to be a black hatter. Yet you think its a silly thing to wear. So your an admitted hypocrite? All you say is completely untrustworthy.
Besides, all you’ve written on this thread and others, suggest you have anything but a “Yeshivishe” hashkofa. You seek to slander the yeshiva world, yet you claim to be part of it in order to authenticate your arguments?
I have no respect to one who’ll stoop to lying and misrepresenting who they are, in order to give credence to their arguments.
RABBAIM: The younger does not have to ask.
There sorces who say otherwise. I’ll try to post them tonight or tomorrow
Feif Un:
haifagirl: We understand you. Its probably uncomfortable for you. She’s may be trying to intergrade as much Hebrew into her vernacular, without giving up her English. Also, she may be uncomfortable calling her daughter-in-law that, since it has “daughter” in there, and they are not her daughters.
I think the difference is that often, MO kids choose to get married later and are not part of the “shidduch” crisis. I also know that sometimes, formerly RW people become MO as they stay single. So they move from pot to pot.
What is this based upon? I happen to know many more people who’ve gone the other way, from MO to RW.
Just consider the fact that YU decided to invest 6 million dollars 4 years ago to address the “problem” of MO people going RW.
SJSinNYC:
the shidduch situation is worse in the MO community? I’ve never heard that before. In my MO hs, we had a senior kallah and another girl married by November. The rest were in seminary (mostly).
By 23, I would estimate about 90% of my class was married. There are a few stragglers of course…
until the maccabeats came out.
___
Rav Hershel Schachter is of the opinion that it’s problematic, and that non-jewish tunes should not be listened to, even with torah words in it.
How do these two go together? Don’t the maccabeats follow RHS’s opinion?
mw13: I think you may be oversimplifying things. Its a very broad discussion, which can be had. But first, we would have to clearly outline what we’re debating and what conclusion we are trying to arrive at.
Iuv (????) tried to exempt all the reshoim from being punished. What was he thinking?
Do you believe that seeing a psychologist, not a psychiatrist (who prescribes medications), is ever warranted?
Sounding your horn at any time in NYC makes you eligible for a $350 fine. I propose strict enforcement of this law; this will enable the city to restore the child care vouchers that have been cut from the budget.
A fine is supposed to match the crime, and only serve as a deterrent to the crime. Making fines to cover other expenses is wrong. Very wrong. Besides, you’ll now be motivated to fine, even when there is no legitimate reason to, (which happens all the time in NYC).
And shidduch crises due to insisting on black hats? Any more jokes? The situation is worse in the MO circles.
anon1m0us
That is my point. A lot of these guys are NOT Am Horatzim, and are even talmuda chochamim who do not wear black hats. They are shomer torah and mitzvos etc. Should we have a shidduch crises because of that? My OPINION is no! We need to look past all the bubba masis and see if the person is Yera Shmayim and shomer torah & mitzvos.
They want to stay away from this type of behavior, which is runs contrary to the ideology of a black hatter.
😉
Wolf: You rebuked someone, obviously in a beautiful way, evidenced by the fact that they took it so well.
If someone were to feel good about themselves afterward, they may come close to be “mischabed boklon chaveiro”. The fact that you feel bad, shows how much respect you have for others (even after you help them..). If I dare say, it sounds like the way it should be.
Imagine you can offer an engaged couple, right after they got engaged, that Eliyahu Hanovie will take care of all their wedding arraignments within two weeks, including invites, every detail of the hall, dress, residence etc etc. Do you know of any couple that would not want to get married at the end of two weeks?
I’d say 90%+ would want to get married ASAP. Simply, arraignments take time, and we usually don’t have Eliyahu offering his full services in this way.
Now, since the couple would preferably married, rather than engaged, spending excessive amounts of time together will highlight the fact that they’re only engaged, and not married.
This breeds frustration. Desires for marriage and what it entails become unnaturally strong, but since we’re limited, we become frustrated at the situation.
Before long though, the frustration shifts from the situation to the person bringing the frustration.
Too much time together during engagement can be a root for a rocky start.
On the other hand, the dating period should be taken seriously, and should not be needlessly rushed, at all.
Feif Un: Wow. Thanks for posting this.
Hit YM”S rose to power in Adar (March 23-25, 19 33)
mw13:
I’m not sure what we disagree about.
But that doesn’t mean somebody starting down the path of wickedness has physiological problems. They are just normal people who have chosen to follow and strengthen their inner monster.
I’ve heard the GR”A says that every aveira ever committed is due to bad middoss. I don’t know how to define normal, but they are suffering emotionally, since bad midddos = emotional imbalances.
“Uletaaveh yevakesh, nifrad” a person seeking their desires, becomes lonely. A good Frum psychologist may be able to help a person out of just chasing their taavos etc.
Dislaimer: I rarely use my horn. Sometimes go weeks without using it.
However, I do understand the NYC residents (its not limited to BP, at all). Finding a parking spot can easily take 10- 20+ minutes, which causes people to double park. DP causes the already congested streets to be barely passable. It can take longer to walk a shorter distance than to drive it.
The slow enough commute can be quite frustrating, and almost every intersection is busy. Add a car blocking etc, people will honk.
Then add the pedestrians. Who waits for a walk signal? That’s another cause for more traffic and –honking
sometimes we’re too tired to go to sleep. Reading doesn’t work for me, because of the light. I’d have to get up to shut it. Used to have great eyesight and ruined it tgrough reading in the dark, so I gotta keep away.
Tapes on the phone work for me. Kol Haloshon is free and has many many different types of shiurim and stories. I have TCN/Torah Phone, which has many different shiurim and stories, clearly archived.
EBA: “ain odom roeh nigai atzmo” 😉
I had lots of questions, but I only discussed them with certain people whom I trusted, and they took me seriously. I gained tremendously through it.
mw13:
I disagree. Just as every person can make themselves into a good, even great person, every person can make themselves into bad person, or even a monster. We all have the ability to become a Godly saint, and we all have it within ourselves to become a monster. It’s just a question of who we choose to become.
But why would anyone choose to become a destructive monster? Besides, wicked people are full of regrets (chazal). Not being content and always regretting, yet repeating the same exact deal in the same again and again, is certainly the makeup of an unhappy etc person.
yid.period:
And the story about the fellow walking to shul does not prove anything. If someone has the custom to wear a black hat on shabbos and neglects that minhag due to the heat, then he is essentially neglecting what he has deemed kavod shabbas because of the heat. That’s not difficult to accept.
Obviously R S felt that it is an honor to Shabbos to wear an hat. (If a guy decides to “honor” Shabbos through wearing a pink left sock with his pant tucked in it, do we think that RJBS would have told him off when he neglected to do so?)
anon1m0us:
I looked up your source and here is what it says “
Just as a king must always wear a crown, so too it is appropriate that a Chosson wear a felt (not straw!) hat throughout his wedding” (p. 256).
So according to this, the Rov only suggested a hat at the wedding for Chosson Domah L’melech and did NOT require anyone to wear a hat.
Thanks for looking it up. I do not have the sefer, nor do I have easy access to look it up. I do remember that it was there. I may be wrong. There is another sefer that RHS put out where he mentions the hat and jacket story. It might be there.
Either way, even if we say that RJBS only encouraged people to wear a hat for their wedding, it does show that he considered wearing a [felt] hat to be regal. Certainly no complaints to one who would like to constantly feel the “Kol Yisroel Bnei Malochim Ninhu” all of us are princes
Back to the topic at hand: ??? ?????, ??? ?
charliehall:
“a teacher in the yeshiva I attended tried to convince me that Avraham Aveenu and Moshe Rabaynu wore black hats.”
And we wonder why so many people go off the derech.
Actually, trusting anonymous posters to make very silly accusations is the reason people go OTD.
I always took you to be an intellectual, what happened over here? I never ever had a Rebbe who tried to rewrite history. To make such a silly accusation against rabbeim in general leaves me to believe neither did the vast majority of posters, otherwise they’d quote true-sounding stories.
Does anybody else feel this?
Nope. I certainly don’t feel this. My funniest questions were always answered, when asked sincerely. Sometimes in class, and sometimes in private, but always answered.
yid.period:
Please see this post. Rabbi JBS disagrees with you!
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/black-hats#post-224130
gavra_at_work: Rabbeinu Channanel explains that Gemorah, that the black clothing will stop him from committing the sin.
apushatayid:
With the emphasis on kovod shabbos. In no way does this imply that this same man should or must wear one during the week. Nor does it imply that the hat must be made of black felt. It could have been yellow straw.
If you’d like to say he only considered it the right thing to do for Shabbos, I can’t argue, since I don’t know. One can ask Rabbi Shachter or Rabbi Meiselman.
anon1m0us:
If you asked the Rov if a YU boy should wear a hat, I am 100% sure his answer would be different.
Please read my other post on this thread. This was his advice to his YU talmidim (who bothered asking).
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/black-hats#post-224130
Wolf:
anon1m0us:
Who really cares if one wears a hat or not! THat does not make one a good jew!
Rabbi Solavatchik, the undisputed leader of Modern Orthodoxy cared. In fact, Rabbi H Schachter reports, that there was a man in Boston who davend at RS minyan. He had about an hour walk. During the summer heat, he left his hat and suit jacket in Shul, so he wouldn’t be as hot during his hour-long walk each way.
Rabbi JB Solavatchik told him (in usual way..) to that kovod Shabbos would be for him to wear his hat in the heat.
The Yated has a similar letter about a childless woman. She had the segulah to say Tehilim after chatzos. She had a baby exactly a year later
anon1m0us: I don’t think I understand what you’re posting. How dare anyone call them innocent??? If Hashem has taken them there is obviously a very good reason!
About sending us a message, yes, Hashem does send us messages in such forms. Just think about Sodom. They weren’t the worst. So why didn’t Hashem just let them die out in a more “natural” manner? Nachmanadies explains this point, it was to teach us a lesson, even though only Avraham was around, and was probably not even considered Jewish. It was a lesson for future generations as well.
Rashi in Parshas Vaara says this as well. (Shemos 7- 3)
Your wants for the future may not necessarily be what you will want once that future comes. Desires change.
Either way, “ain odom meis v’chatzi taavosov b’yodo”. When a person passes on, guaranteed, he has not fulfilled even half of his desires. (I’ll add, and from the part he has fulfilled, is he taking anything with?)
Why not? Just choose wisely
I saw an article by Rabbi Shmuel Brazil on the web. ou may want to google it
yid.period
Especially when one grows up in a society/ is born in an era where putting on a hat may make them feel less yirah than not wearing one?
charliehall:
Its interesting you mention your wedding story with the hat.
Lots of Yekkehs only wait three hours
whocares: What about this thread? Does it keep you wondering, or do you know exactly where it belongs. If so, where?
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