Torah613Torah

Thanks DY. And the others?

Well, I recently had such a situation, and I said no. I really appreciated it the one time a boy said no to me on a date, I thought it was very honest and direct.

Of course I am changing the circumstances. It’s a hypothetical situation and can therefore change to suit my imagination.

Anyway, I am proud to have successfully, if inadvertently, trolled the great Popa Bar Abba.

Not disagreeing with him is also manipulation in terms of leading him on.

Say I and my friend are very good at the conversation part of dating and enjoy making people enjoy themselves, and this is a frequent result.

The purpose of dating is to see if they’re right for us, and if it’s obvious they’re not, we’re ‘damned if we do and damned if we don’t’. If we continue being our sweet easygoing selves, which is the way we are to those we like and we do behave that way at home too, the person thinks we want to date again and will be very disappointed when we say no. Again, this is the pure shidduch system and anything we do will be reported to at least 3 people.

We already discussed the other option.

I agree that it is unethical to manipulate someone purely for personal gain. But this gives him fuller freedom of choice, I am not limiting his choices in any way.

I apologize for my poor writing and expression recently, my brain is being overloaded in mathematics and my verbal skills are taking the blow.

OOM: We’re talking about equality as it relates to women being in the army. If it takes special effort to incorporate someone in the army, than it is not equal.

That’s why disabled men don’t get into special needs platoons in the army. They just get discharged.

WIY, thanks for your post. I will be firm when/if the issue comes up.

Unrelated rant: This is what’s annoying with shidduch dating. Everything I say has to go through me/my mother the shadchan the boy/mother. And it has to make sense to all parties. Sometimes I wish I could just tell the boy what I think directly.

DY – thanks for not calling me a number. There are lots of 613’s here. I forgot to respond to that before.

PBA, I actually like that idea, but I’ll have to run it by some people in real life to ensure that it won’t have any complications.

For those like me who only read the last 3 posts of a topic:

To sum up, this would be a bad idea, and if you do it, Popa will never date you, plus he’ll ensure no one he knows will ever date you either. Don’t do it!

OOM: The problem is also incorporation. We agree that SOME women are stronger than SOME men. But it’s also about practicality. Incorporating women into an army is hard because men are distracted by them and want to protect them in battle.

Anyway, lo silbash kli gever al isha. So it would be an issur d’Oraysa in any case.

DaasYochid – thanks. I think you get the situation better than the others here. Not every shadchan is open to hearing reasonable excuses, and particularly if that shadchan occasionally comes up with someone shayach, it takes some brainstorming to skirt the issue without sounding picky.

OOM – Equality is giving people equal opportunities with consideration of biological realities. 🙂

Sorry PBA, I have a quota of one stupid thread I want to start per day. And this happens to be a completely hypothetical question, based on bits and pieces of mine and a friend’s reality.

Let’s say you hear of a boy, there are pressures to say yes, and you want to say no. It’s the same question.

I think you’re all imagining me doing something terrible. I do have a sense of self-preservation! And I do want to get married. So it wouldn’t be anything that wouldn’t sound perfectly normal to the people involved.

To give a totally random example: Let’s say davka disagreeing about a certain hashkafic point. For example, if he said he’d hypothetically vote for Otzma, you’d say Bayit Yehudi. When you really don’t care that much and would do whatever your husband wanted once married, but you don’t like this boy so you make a little bit of a discussion about it, preferably giving one concrete detail that you can figure he wouldn’t agree with. Would this be ethical?

I think it’s also saving the boy from being too interested in me. It’s doing him a favor. But it seems you all agree that this is a bad idea, so I’ll hypothetically just be nice and spend an hour trying to find ways to explain to the shadchan why not for no apparently good reason.

Let’s assume, completely hypothetically, that you are feeling pressured into this date in the first place. Can you start an argument or davka disagree on something in order to later be able to say we had hashkafic differences?

Equality does not mean that people should be treated the same.

With that said, I am not interested in this discussion with you, Yiddishmeidl, and it stops here.